Not a cure, just appropriate support

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Speaking as part of a couple who would have aborted had we gotten a prenatal diagnosis of Down, perhaps I can explain. Unlike some, I certainly don't have a problem with people who choose to bring a Down child into the world, but unlike autism, Down is clearly a genetic defect, not just a different way of being. Most trisomies in fact result in spontaneous abortions early in pregnancy; it just turns out that trisomy 21 - as well as Edwards, trisomy 18, which you mentioned earlier - are not quite as serious, and the fetus can survive to birth, and even adulthood in the case of Down. However, the child will certainly have disabilities. It's much more than just "less than perfect".

My wife and I would have brought up a child with a disability, had that not been preventable. However, that doesn't mean we would choose to bring up a disabled child, if we had a choice. For people who are okay with abortion, a prenatal Down diagnosis is exactly that - a choice as to whether to bring up a disabled child or not.

It's because of the thought behind the wording. "Sullen" implies an emotional state. Our flat expression does not - it implies nothing, or at most a lack of an emotional state. So yes, assuming that a child is feeling "sullen" because of a flat expression is indeed wrong - it's a mistaken inference. And that inference can do a lot of damage, because it often results in negative reactions on the part of the parent that are not deserved by the child.


Right. And even to the extent that this forum is for support of the parents, it's not for support of just any random parent. It's not even for support of all parents with a child on the spectrum. Rather, it's for support of parents who accept the basic concept that aspies and auties are not defective - even if they are different. And for parents who aren't at that point yet, the forum is absolutely for advocacy as well - advocacy of the viewpoint that parents should realize that their aspie and autie children are every bit as fully human and worthwhile as neurotypical children.

It's a bit of a stereotype and a blanket statement. That's why it comes off as offensive. I've had a lot of people tell me my son doesn't look autistic, or they don't think he's autistic because he can be such a ray of sunshine. And I always tell them that whatever they know to be true about autism, the opposite is also often just as true (and sometimes both extremes can exist in one person).

This is true and something I personally deal with. My facial expressions often don't match what I'm actually feeling. I'm often misread.

In NT language, it really isn't. You are asking for a precision in use of language that the NT world by and large doesn't consider necessary. Parents don't feel they need to say "I want to cure my child's language problems" for it to be understood that the reason they want a "cure" is so that the child will be able to communicate, but that they don't otherwise want a "new" child. People elsewhere don't seem to even consider possible that a parent is trying to change their child that fundamentally (and I realize many here will disagree on that, because they think what parents generally DO want is fundamental). One of those things that until you come here is supposed to go without saying.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 26 Apr 2011, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm not sure I agree DW. Maybe that kind of careful use of language isn't preferred outside of autism discussions in the NT world, but inside the autism world I think there are many, many NT parents who are fully aware of how loaded the word "cure" is - and I think we are right to be cautious with it, out of respect to those who are autistic.

double post

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 26 Apr 2011, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Of all the AS kids I know, none are flat or expressionless. Perhaps that used to be the case, when life beat them up so fast they had no choice, but in the current world I don't think it occurs any more with AS kids than in the general population, ie there have always been people born to a more naturally positive disposition than others, and some born to sullen appearing expressions, and so forth.

My AS son was born with an incredibly positive disposition and this beautiful sparkle. Life is wearing him down, and he doesn't have the sparkle he used to, but I don't attribute it to his AS: I can SEE it is life wearing him down, the having to deal with frustration day in and day out, relentless.

The AS kids on YouTube by and large have that lovely sparkle.

But to say you are OK with it for Downs ... does that mean you are OK with it for AS? Because if the test becomes available, many will see the decision in exactly the same terms you described here.

OK, I'll be honest - I don't agree with that as a choice. I think it is a destructive path for society to have entered this realm, of prenatal testing designed to allow us to decide what type of child we are willing to raise.

I believe that nature (or God) intends for there to be a certain balance in this world, and when we mess with it the course self-corrects in some other way. Doesn't it strike anyone else as odd how fast AS has zoomed onto the radar now that 80-90% of potential Downs children are aborted?

Most people who find this board haven't gotten that immersed in the language culture, as far as I can tell. Much of the time they've barely started their journey, much less figured out who stands for what.

I don't think that's accurate. I think that in the greater neurotypical world, people absolutely equate a "cure" of autism with replacement of the child's mind; what goes without saying is that everyone assumes that's desirable, perhaps because they assume there's nothing there to be replaced. It's not until they come here that they realize that there are actually people who believe that autistic children have minds of their own in there, and valuable and worthwhile minds to boot. That's the biggest value to this forum: teaching parents that autistic and aspie children are not deficient, just different.


I am actually okay with it for Asperger's, as long as it's the parent's choice, and parents are free to choose to preferentially abort neurotypical fetuses and keep the aspies just as much as they are free to abort aspies and keep the neurotypical fetuses.

I think that some of the parents here may have an overly rosy view of how autistic children are typically treated in greater society. Parents in this forum have largely come around to the viewpoint that their children are worthwhile people, worthy of being raised as they are. That's not true in greater society. Many parents do view having an autistic child as a burden. When they aren't able to change the child to be who they want, they take some of their frustration out on the child. Many autistic children are neglected or outright abused.

Given that we can't keep those parents from having children in the first place, I would prefer for them to be bringing up children that they will value and treat well, rather than children they will resent and mistreat. If there are parents who would love to have a brunette child but would resent and possibly abuse a redhead, I'd rather they had the child they will love and treat well.


Some of us don't believe that our fates are controlled by any omnipotent, beneficent diety. Let's leave it at that.

I did not ask for it. I did not realize that we were talking about completely different things. This is a communication problem on my part, and yet I am communicating. I wonder if reading my posts for you guys is like having piece together little puzzle pieces like it is for me to read yours often times. I wonder if they got their wish of a child who communicates if they would still feel this confusing barrier with them that I sense.

Autism goes very deep. You ask to solve one problem of it and yet it is still there somehow. I am sorry for any misunderstandings. I am just trying to communicate... well, I don't know what I was trying to say now that I realize we were talking about different things. But it seems to me that people want to treat these specific symptoms and yet that's just the visible, obvious parts of autism and autism does not run on the surface. Even if your child talks there is still just this huge difference beneath their skin that I don't think anything can change, but I can feel it and know it is there no matter how intangible it seems.

I just want to say... when I was new here, I did come searching for answers, hoping to find that quick fix that would help my son be "normal". I didn't intend to make my son a different person per se, but I wanted to take away those things that kept him from dealing with challenges "appropriately'.... I wanted to help make his life easier. Again, I didn't what to change who he fundamentally is though. I saw it as his challenges holding him back from being his "real" self... and in some cases, I do still see it that way. It makes me so sad that the rest of the world doesn't know the sweet, funny boy that lurks behind the emotional outbursts... It makes me sad to see his inward disappointment in the aftermath of a meltdown. And I still say, if I could find a way to remove that specific issue for him, I would.

However, since coming here, I have learned that these are part of the things that make my son tick to his quirky own rhythm.. so yes, I would be concerned that a "cure" might change who he fundamentally is.. But I still wish a simpler life for him..

I guess my point is that I was blind, and am now seeing more clearly... and before I would have never thought of a "cure" as something that would entirely change the person that my son is. No matter how much I wish it were easier for him to cope, I would never want to change WHO he is....

It's been awhile since I've given thanks, so.. I would like to say from the bottom of my heart, that I appreciate you guys and this place sooooooo much.. Even those that I might not agree with because you open my eyes to different perspectives and make me consider things from a different point of view. I learn something every day that I'm here. Thank you.

You don't have to apologize. We're all just doing our best.

For all the reasons BurntOutMom just posted, your voice is a gift here, even if sometimes we have to struggle to figure out what it means.

I'm sorry if my attempt to draw into the middle was rough on you. I didn't mean for it to be.

There doesn't have to be a diety. Just as gravity draws us to the earth, and oceans pull at the shorelines, nature has a need to provide yin for yang. I put nature first for a reason in that sentence. I know the make up of the audience I'm talking to

I myself am actually atheist, even though I wasn't married in an atheist ceremony - although I hasten to add that I certainly don't agree with any of the more intolerant and objectionable generalizations that some of the atheists on the religion forum make about the religious. Some of us atheists are more tolerant than others. However, while I respect nature, I don't see nature as having intentions or needs the way humans do.

Granted that doesn't stop me from keeping a fire lit overnight at Yule to help the sun come up after the longest night each year.