Son Asking for Social Security Number

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I write, direct and act. Used to do a lot of modeling but there aren't many opportunities for that at my age. To supplement, I do editing and teach some corporate presentation classes.

I'm finally fulfilling a long-term ambition and officially starting my own professional theater company in January. I hope to be mostly living off that by this time next year.

Awesome! You do it. I hope you succeed.

I think everyone should run their own business at some point in their lives, assuming they have interest in doing so. Remember that you will have won even if the business doesn’t make it. To test yourself and put it all in the line is such a rich and growing experience. Talk about taking a risk! But you have to go for it. You will learn more about yourself than you believed possible. And whatever time budget you think you need for administration: multiply that by four or more. Everyone drastically underestimated how time is needed for the paperwork.

You're right about administration. I'm terrible at that, so I recruited a much better organized person with real management experience.

Honestly, I still think it is unreasonable for parents and other people to expect their disabled, autistic children to be able to make it in the work place with the workplace having all sorts of intricate standards to it that is like a minefield.

I don't know.
I expect my diagnosed daughter to be able to find some employment in the area of her talents - drawing, computers, Math and mechanics - sufficient to provide enough for her current idea of life: alone with a cat. That's the current goal. If we fail with this goal, or if her idea for life changes, we will need to adjust our plans to reality.
Almost all the people I know IRL weren't economically independent at 18 - but they were capable of making independent decisions about their lives.

Magz, I'm sure your daughter is an extremely intelligent young lady.

I dissent from the general consensus from parents (both on the spectrum and who are not) here and out in the real world. The general consensus is to push an ASD child into employment as in working for someone else. Looking at the Bureau of Labor Stats for disabled and employed does it work? If one googles what I'm talking about I say no.

This is from the horse's mouth. A billionaire named Richard Branson. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130923 ... rsonality/

And, look at the comments from other people as well.

These people don't just hire by one's intelligence or technical ability.

They're hiring by personality first. And, what if we don't have the personality they demand? Will we have to pretend to be something we're not and be double minded just for our livelyhoods?

My opinion. If I father a child like myself I'm going with the assumption that employment with others will not work out. Even if you and others disagree please attempt to understand my position.

well, typically a person needs that info to get a job.

True and to me as I said before if he is to immature to have that info then he's to disabled to go to college and/or be employed.

And, it is in my opinion the workplace in general is a hostile place for those with disabilities in general but more so with ASDs. It is not a good idea to push especially an ASD child into working for someone else. They have their own interests at heart which may not align with your child's interests and needs.

Even if someone found a diamond in the rough, my experience is it could work for a few years but what happens when that "diamond" has a better opportunity somewhere else? And, let's say someone else comes in who is more likely to be hostile to you then what? And, then they decide to do all kinds of s**t to try to get rid of you no matter how productive you are. And, then they're back to square 1.

It's not just the positive qualities one has to look for within one's child but how others (employers) are going to regard him. In other words, it DOES matter what others THINK!

These are the types of things parents never think about.

In the the end, I do think parents will do what they think is best for their children. And, I encourage parents to do just that and to do their homework. Don't just listen to me. I probably have my own biases, baggage and emotional hangups. And, it's all good! I may be 100000% wrong but I don't think so. If I father a child, my wife and I are going south where everyone else is going north. She is sick of employers as well and we want to start our own business and have our kids be in our family business. That's the direction we want.

Maybe the job market in my country differs from job market in yours... Just doing your job is typically enough to keep your employment here. Running your own business requires a lot more social skills and a skill I completely lack: navigating elaborate, illogical beaurocracy.

Maybe!

No, it's more then just doing your job here. Your country and mine is different then.

You're judged on your personality and your body language. And, this is the tip of the ice berg.

I wrote this a while back.

American Employment

Criteria Employers Consider When Hiring

There are different things about a person that an employer considers before hiring someone like but not limited to work ethic, appearance, personality, social skills, technical skills, and experience but these will be the primary ideas focused upon.   I am going to define what these ideas mean and based upon my own understanding of them why I truthfully can’t succeed in the USA whether I had Autism or whether I did not have Autism.   Even if I did not have Autism overall, the modern workplace would be hostile to my own inclinations.

More than likely I would not be able to fit the mold they demanded of me and the only way I could, would be to fake it and pretend to be what I wasn’t because of my personality traits in addition to my Autism.  Of course like most things there are exceptions and my being human of course with flaws, I could be wrong in my ultimate point. To put on a dog and pony show to me is a form of deception and is unethical.   Can I be in a job, any job, in which I can be ethical by being my true self?  After I define these things I will define myself and give an analysis of myself and explain why my traits do not mesh up with the employer’s demands and really American society and values at large.  This time I will try to define things in my own terms the best that I can so I may have inaccuracies as I am a person who is human with a disability and no human beings are perfect anyway.

Work Ethic

Let’s start off with the concept of work ethic and what it means.  To me, work ethic is a moral value that has value outside of what positive outcome work entails more specifically outside of empirical reality.  What a work ethic is and means is that hard work is considered a value that is considered intrinsic onto itself and it is to build character.  It is the belief that working hard, under the definition of working hard, is considered a virtue unto itself whether it leads to a positive outcome or not.   How working hard is played out in America is this.  One is supposed to go to school, college, and then get himself a job.  Once he is at a job he is supposed to put in his time and dedicate his time to work and more than likely it is 8 hours a day 40 hours per week.  This is the American work ethic pushed by parents onto their children.   When one is at his job one is supposed to be reliable and take initiative.  Reliable means to do what one promises, with quality and on time.  It also entails showing up on time as well. This was what was presented to me as a child.

Appearance

Appearance is another factor as well.  This includes wearing the designated uniform whether it is suit and tie or auto mechanic’s uniform.  This depends upon what one’s job entails.    In addition, it can include personal hygiene and how well your clothes are ironed and pressed.  Depending upon the job, one may have to shave off his facial hair as well.  Appearance is the overall look that different employers desire in their workplaces.

Personality

The third concept employers consider is personality. According to the American Psychological Association Personality is “individual differences in characteristic patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving.”   Employers hire a person based upon their patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving.  This is what the interviewer observes about a person and how one responds to various questions they’re asked in an interview.  From there, they create a profile based upon their empirical observations in the interview and based upon one’s answers to questions online or at their kiosk.  In essence, People’s thoughts, feelings and behavior are displayed through written and electronic assessments, non-verbal language and actual speech content ( are they verbose, succinct, what words they use, etc.)

Social Skills

The fourth concept is social skills which can intermingle with personality.    I will try to give my own definition as it is very difficult to find one from a reputable.  Remember this is my interpretation and I may not be interpreting it correctly.  My definition of social skills is the rules and procedures that govern interaction between two or more people, within a group and between groups.  From my perspective and interpretation employers do vary in their mission, vision, and products.  Most of them have certain social skills they require and they are very similar.

For example, in America one is supposed to make eye contact and when one shakes hands one is supposed to have a certain amount of pressure and force to his grip.   Manners also come into play on this like saying please, thank you, you’re welcome, and a lot more which can include table manners.  If one goes out to eat with a potential employer one is judged on his table manners as well. Part of social skills is communication as well.  It is being able to understand what the other person is saying and writing and speak and write in a way the other person is able to understand as well. Part of that is being able to interpret that through context from the underlying culture, tone, and body language.  As an example of where my communication skills lack let’s look at this right here.  I would never have considered problem solving skills as being a part of social skills and I never thought of problem solving skills as having these sub components as stated on this website:  http://www.nasponline.org/resources/fac ... ls_fs.aspx  Here is the listing:

Survival skills (e.g., listening, following directions, ignoring distractions, using nice or brave talk, rewarding yourself)
Interpersonal skills (e.g., sharing, asking for permission, joining an activity, waiting your turn)
Problem-solving skills (e.g., asking for help, apologizing, accepting consequences, deciding what to do)
Conflict resolution skills (e.g., dealing with teasing, losing, accusations, being left out, peer pressure)

Looking at the example of problem solving skills I would never have considered these as being part of problem solving.  When I think problem solving I think of how to come up with efficient code for a program or creating a software application.  Another example is coming up with a solution for a math problem or figuring out how to build a better mousetrap.  To me, that is problem solving.  My thinking on problem solving and what problem solving is is different from the mainstream understanding of it.  We have two different contexts we’re coming from.  This is part of my communication issues which is a part of social skills.

Technical Skills

There are the technical skills of the job meaning can I do the actual job?  For example, let’s say I’m a janitor.  Am I able to effectively to sweep and mop the floor effectively and efficiently.  If I am a programmer, do I understand how to program and do I have the knowledge of the programming languages employers desire.  Skills and experience are a part of this and is factored in as well in hiring decisions.

Work Experience

Finally, this relates to work skills but I think it deserves its own emphasis.  Today’s employers in many jobs require experience and not just my field.   I tried looking for a job in my field which was Information Technology.   A lot of jobs today seem are multi-skilled and each skill requires years of experience and this was true even in the entry level positions.  I believe this relates to social skills and communication meaning that it is who you know and if they know you as a hypothesis I have.

Integration of Employer’s Criteria

Overall, work ethic, appearance, personality, social skills, technical skills and experience are part of the overall rubric and yard stick employers use to determine whether a potential candidate is hired or not.  All of these concepts are not just in isolation but can intermingle and entangle themselves together.  Those who claim one has to develop skills, work hard and have an excellent work ethic is seeing only a part of the picture.  They’re not considering the forest as a whole.  I agree these things are very vital in employment especially to keep interactions civilized and I think it can be said these things help form the social glue of our society.

Personality Type Employers are Looking For

Let’s look at the type of personality employers are looking for.  I will quote it from Mr. Richard Bronson’s linkdin article and if you look at the comments by various employers they agree with Mr. Bronson.  https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/art ... ersonality  Mr. Bronson says “If you can find people who are fun, friendly, caring and love helping others, you are on to a winner.”   This is just one aspect.  My father has told me many times when he hires he is looking for someone who has energy.   Mr. Bronson said “Personality is the key. It is not something that always comes out in interview – people can be shy. But you have to trust your judgment. If you have got a slightly introverted person with a great personality, use your experience to pull it out of them. It is easier with an extrovert, but be wary of people becoming overexcited in the pressure of interviews.”   Despite what Mr. Bronson says extroverted personalities will have less of a difficult time succeeding in modern in employment unless they’re extremely high strung.  Let’s say we have a scale from -10 to 10.  -10 being extremely introverted and 10 being extremely extraverted.  My father has told me when he was someone who was hiring he didn’t want someone who was on the ceiling and I will assign 8-10 as scores for this person.

To me, slightly introverted, as Mr. Bronson mentions, is someone whom I will assign to around -1 to -3.  What we have is a bell shaped curve and if one is within certain standard deviations more than likely they will have a easier time obtaining and keeping a job or career.  More than likely energy, as my father calls it, and the amount of it is correlated with the amount of extroversion one has.  If one has extroversion on the x-axis and energy on the y-axis we will have a linear line that goes up.  If employers are in a hurry to fill in a position and they have to deal with 100s to 1000s of candidate are they really going to examine the more introverted person?   In addition, a number of employers have personality tests as well with choices: Strongly Disagree, Disagree, Neutral, Agree, Strongly Agree in which a number of questions are open to interpretation.

My Personality Type

In addition to my autism, I am an INTP personality type with an extreme emphasis on the T and the I, high emphasis on the P and the N.  I may be inaccurate but I when I do an analysis of myself I consider myself a deep thinker and philosopher who is open to new ideas.   The F side of me is not quite as developed.   I look for patterns and rules governing the underlying system.  My energy as my father calls it and as other employers call it including Mr. Bronson calls it is directed towards constant analysis and understanding of things.  My main desire is to understand and to know.  It is to discover the underlying patterns in our existence.  Once I have an intricate understanding of it, it is very difficult for me to work with it.  My mind literally shuts down and it is difficult for me to work with it.  I will give an example with a job I used to have.  I had to create a program to do x for company y.   For me, it was a thrill trying to figure how to create the program, program the code and solve the problem.

As I created the system, I had an underlying understanding of the program and when I had to create something remotely similar to it for a different reason my mind shut down.   It was like climbing Mount Everest because I fet this horrible inertia.   It is the same thing with programming in general.  My father wants me to get into doing Apps.  I can figure out how to do them and learn the syntax but the problem is I have no desire to.  Apps work under programming logic in the abstract sense.  For me, figuring out how programming works and the underlying logic was the thrill.  It brought me to new heights of ecstasy and it is like receiving a dosage of oxycotin.  Imagine the 9th symphony and when you listen to it you’re on top of the world.  Without this feeling and inspiration I can’t put my mind to doing Apps anymore or learning another programming language.  This is one aspect of my personality type that causes me dysfunction and why I have a difficult time succeeding in America.

The other part of my personality type is an extreme introversion.  I am an outlier on this if we have extraversion-introversion on a bell curve.  What employers want are energetic employees that are dedicated to focusing on servicing the customer in the empirical world even in IT.  Since I am an extreme introvert, I would do best in an environment that would require only minimum contact with certain co-workers in the metaphorical basement and no customers.  Are employers going to do this?  Even my SSDI report said I would do best with only minimal interaction with other co-workers and customers.

Employers require a person to take the initiative meaning if they perceive something needs to be done in their empirical environment the employee is supposed to do it without being told to do it.  I am a very introspective person which means a good chunk of my time I am inside of my own head mulling over my own thoughts.  This has a trade-off, the trade-off being that it makes me unobservant of my own surroundings.  Even my own significant other has had to keep telling me to pay attention to my own surroundings.  Taking the initiative requires one to be keenly aware and observant of his own surroundings which is one of my major weaknesses I have no idea how to overcome.  More than likely, even if there is something to do in the workplace and even if it is in front of my own face I will be unaware of it unless I am able to use my energy in a conscious manner to focus.   For me, this is very draining and by the time the day is over, my functioning level has gone down. My natural state is to be a very introspective yet very unobservant person.

Because of the P part of my personality, I am open to many possibilities of what things may be and how they may be interpreted with certain parameters given.  This leads to another aspect of why I have difficulty taking initiative in the workplace like employers demand.  Even if I am able to miraculously spot what needs to be done one issue I may have is does it really need to be done?   What if it looks like I’m supposed to move a box but I am really not or may be what looks like a spill isn’t and I misinterpret it,  I end up cleaning up what I’m not supposed to clean up.  What can happen is I may end up asking the employer a whole bunch of questions over every nuance.  Better yet, how do I even know I’m even authorized to take initiative on a particular task? If I perceive a better way of doing a task am I allowed to do it this way or do I follow the employers directions to the exact letter?  By deviating, I took the initiative did I not?  I remember I was at worktec, I thought I found a better way to do a particular task.  Apparently, I took the initiative wrong.

When I tried to question her about it, the woman would not answer my questions nor show me where my logic was off.  So, I’m still in the dark as to how one is supposed to take the initiative and how to apply the concept correctly.  What are my authorization levels and what are my boundaries?  Unless these things are directly told, because of my unobservant nature, not knowing what to observe I am unable to take the initiative and employers would have to tell me what they wanted or I would have to be shown the techniques to be more observant and what surroundings I should observe.  The problem is what people say and do and situations are open to interpretation.  Let’s give an example about taking out the garbage.  One person and I see a garbage can that has garbage in it.  An example of taking initiative means taking out the garbage when I see it as full.   Full is open to interpretation.   My boss may think it needs to be taken out and when I see it I think it doesn’t need to be taken out for one more day.  From my perspective, I didn’t think it was full enough yet to warrant being taken out and I could just take it out the next day.  On the other hand, my boss would claim that I showed lack of initiative.  My conclusion would be that both she and I had two different interpretations of the same situation.  She thought it was full and I lacked initiative for not taking the trash out.  I evaluated the trash and determined that I could leave it for one more day.  This is another reason I feel I am unable to succeed in America especially in employment.

The concept of taking initiative is too subjective for me because it involves me make judgment calls I am unable to make because my brain wiring is different than the majority’s brain wiring.    More than likely, I will not interpret the situation appropriately as defined by the majority and the majority is not forgiving of that.   This means my chances of success go down considerably in an environment that requires subjective interpretations in which the majority of people come to similar conclusions about different situations that are different than mine.  My taking initiative would require me to make subjective interpretations and subjectively appraise a situation and I am unable to do this because more than likely my conclusions will be different than the majority’s conclusions.  It ends up being a situation in which, your red is my green.  Like Einstein said “Did the chicken cross the road or did the road cross the chicken?”  Finally, I could see multiple interpretations of a direction given.  If I’m told to put a pot of water on the opposite side of the stove, then what is the correct interpretation of opposite?  It depends upon if we’re looking at the x-axis or y-axis.

I will quote Mr. Bronson again and Mr. Bronson says “If you can find people who are fun, friendly, caring and love helping others, you are on to a winner.”   Let me say that I do care about people a lot and I wish for the best for them.  I will say I wish the people in our society cared more about others then they actually do.  I wish people actually cared about the poor, sick and disabled instead of giving lip service.  I have gotten myself into trouble for caring too much and applying a faulty kind of caring in my past.  This is beside the point though.   In the past, the only real question that was asked was “Can you do the job?”   If one could clean well one could become a janitor easily.  Nowadays we have to have all of these soft skills including emotional intelligence.  Even though I do care a lot about people my version of caring presents differently.

My natural tendency is to examine and analyze a system.   This goes for people to and when conflicts occur.   For example, during thanksgiving time my significant other’s sister’s in laws would take a lot of food.   What my significant other and her mother wanted was for them to consider other people’s feelings and have consideration for others.   This was a buffet style thanksgiving dinner.  My solution was to ration the food and divide the food up.   My significant other did not like that very much.   My tendency is to look for flaws in systems and present solutions.   If I see a contradiction or something I don’t understand, I will question it.  I look for patterns, use logic, and use rationality which makes me deficient in emotional intelligence which is what Mr. Bronson is looking for.  I do not work with other people’s emotions that well even though I do care and sympathize with them.

As a side bar, I think judges, witnesses and juries in criminal court cases display their emotions too much.  We’re supposed to have an impartial justice in which justice is blind and guilt is supposed to be proven and until guilt is proven in theory they’re supposed to be considered innocent.  This means, judges and juries are supposed to weigh the facts and the evidence of the case.  This is how it is supposed to work in theory but this does not work in practice.  One can make emotional pleas to the jury and/or judge and both can be swayed by it instead of the preponderance of the evidence.  This is one anecdotal example.  Emotional energy and emotional intelligence outweigh logic, facts, and true critical thinking.  When I am at my normal state I don’t express a lot of emotion, passion, and feeling.   My monotone voice displays this as well.  Even if I have the experience, the knowledge and the facts to back me up my chances success in America go down.  You could say that I have the personality of Ben Stein.   If I came across like Ben Stein in a job interview, what are my chances that I will land the job since technical criteria is not the only criteria employers go by?

My Capacity when it comes to Social Skills

Eye Contact

What if one is not able to do a certain set of social skills a given culture requires one to do?   For example, I have difficulty making and sustaining eye contact and knowing what the right amount of eye contact is.  For me, it feels very painful and it is very difficult for me to concentrate on what the other person is saying.

Shaking Hands

I have a difficult time shaking hands because I don’t know the amount of grip to shake someone’s hands with especially in a business setting.   I’m told to shake with a firm handshake and if I do not I’m told I display a lack of confidence.  I’m afraid that if I grip too hard I will inadvertently hurt the other person.  How do I give a firm handshake so I don’t squeeze my hand as hard as B.A. Barracus on the A-Team (old series)?   There are people out there who are germaphobic and as of 10-23-2014, we have a virus called Ebola going around.   People sneeze and touch things all of the time.  Shouldn’t we as Americans be limiting our body contact with each other?   To be quite honest, I don’t feel comfortable shaking hands.  Even if the grip wasn’t the issue, I have a major fear of getting the Ebola virus.

Table Manners

I have both memory problems, some multitasking and fine and gross motor coordination problems.  Therefore, it is very difficult for me to eat the fork the right way which is one is supposed to use his left hand.  It is very difficult for me to use the soup spoon the right way without the soup from the spoon spilling on me.  In fact, for whatever reason food and sauces spill on me all of the time even when I have a napkin under me.  When I am at a formal social event apparently one is supposed to speak to others while eating at the same time.  Now, I’m expected to remember to speak to someone, maintain eye contact, eat, while keeping food from spilling on me at the same time.  In addition, due to my memory problems it is very difficult for me to know which set of glasses and silverware are mine when I’m at a formal event especially if I’m sitting at a circular table.  They set everything up in which all is connected together as one and it is difficult for me to know whos is what?   When there are a lot of items on the table it is very overwhelming for me.  These things are the reasons I hate formal social dinners with a passion and if I had to do one with an employer to get a job I would most certainly lose.

My Questions to the Neurotypical World

What if I have difficulty with these things or I literally am unable to do these things?  Am I to be punished for things beyond my control?   Why?  How is it reasonable to be punished for things such as this?   A blind person is automatically exempted from eye contact, a person who has no hands is exempted from shaking hands and a person in a wheel chair is exempted from walking all by default.   Why can’t I and other autistics receive similar exemptions as well?  Wouldn’t it be nice if all one had to do to seek and maintain employment was to be able to do the damn job and if one has no experience he would be able to seek and maintain employment and gain experience easily?   With exceptions like sales why can’t we just drop all of these expectations of things like firm handshakes and eye contact and remove them off the table?  Whatever happened to doing the damn job?

My Final Words

There are those who state that in order to succeed one has to work hard and have skills, e ven if this is necessarily true, it is not sufficiently true.  Working Hard and having skills will not guarantee success in one’s endeavors and people in America say “nothing in life is guaranteed.”  One can develop the skills, have the experience and work hard and these combined together will not guarantee one’s success in any employment in any part of The United States of America.   One can be well mannered but if one’s personality is of a dead fish his chances of success goes down considerably.  One’s personality in addition to work ethic, appearance, social skills, technical skills, and experience combined together count more than any of these alone.

Because of my personality type in addition to my Aspergers my chances of success in the USA is slim.   If one says to fake my way in and fake it until I make it, I can’t do this because it would be unethical for me to do so.  This would me I would be forced to present a characterization of a person that I am not and never will be which means I would have to be deceptive. Where can I succeed at exactly?  Is there any job in which I can be put in the metaphorical basement with minimal interaction with others and my assignments are given to me written down and in detail as to what they want by order of priority?   Is there any job in which I can be myself?   Can I make it in America at all?  How?

I am INTP as well.
I typically worked (now I'm not working because maternity takes all my focus and my husband earns enough for us) in poorly paid but not really competitive government jobs.
I remember Kraftie recommended applying for them to you, as well. I'm sure not only my government is chronically short of IT guys.

I've duly noted Kraftie's suggestion. It is a good one.

Do you know where I'm coming from on the things I said?

Not sure.
You wrote a lot.

I get it that some inherent characteristics of an individual may make them disadvantaged on the job market. This is certainly true and parents can't really do much about it for their children.
Though, in my opinion, if parents nurture constructive strengths of their children, they make things better anyway.

My point was, financial independence is not the independence children must gain by their 18th birthday. I find ability to make responsible decisions much more urgent skill to teach my kids before this deadline. Job market can wait a few years more and be navigated by the already-responsible adult child on their own.

The Ebola virus barely exists in the United States. Only two cases total has been contracted within the United States. Nine others have been contracted elsewhere, and the people came back into the US and subsequently experienced the symptoms. 9 of the 11 total cases recovered. None has been reported since late 2014.

Moreover, Ebola is not transmitted through handshakes, unless there is broken skin on either hand, and one person has active Ebola. People with Ebola are laid up in bed always.