Conditions associated/commonly seen with Asperger's?

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Our son (4 1/2) is currently being evaluated for Asperger's Syndrome - or, at least, as close to an evaluation as we've been able to get. His pediatrician referred him to a pediatric neurologist, and our first/only visit consisted of said neurologist "hmm"ing quite a bit, studying our son, and then ordering chromosomal micro-array and an MRI. No idea yet if he's even going to venture a diagnosis, but our pedi is comfortable doing so, if need be. And our son seems rather an obvious case, by the diagnostic scales I've seen.

So, we assume he does have Asperger's. What's a bit unsettling, though, is that he ALSO has...

"Short Stature": there is no family history of short stature, but he is inexplicably tiny (bone age two years behind, and nearly falling off the growth charts, when diagnosed). He went from being a stocky, muscular toddler to a tiny waif of a little boy. Testing confirmed that he IS making growth hormone, but his body is not able to adequately make use of it. He's been on artificial growth hormone (Nutropin) for several months, and is now closer to normal height, yet still almost skin and bones, with disturbingly low muscle tone.

Hyperopia, astigmatism and amblyopia:
He has the vision of a hawk, or would, were it not for his astigmatism. He also has a lazy eye which developed almost overnight, a year ago, and has grown no better and no worse. He claims his glasses do not help him see better, and they have not corrected the lazy eye, either. His eye doctor is rather baffled, and referring him back to the same pediatric opthamologist who was of no help, a year ago.

He has an older sister (7, and actually a half-sister, as she's from my first marriage) whom we also suspect has Asperger's. She has no growth issues, and no amblyopia, but has the same hyperopia with astigmatism, and also says her glasses do not help her see well enough.

I myself have Asperger's, but am baffled as to where these growth and vision issues come from. I'm very nearsighted, but there is no history of hyperopia anywhere in my family, nor growth issues. I did have amblyopia as a young child; it was corrected, but it still mildly prone to drifting, from time to time, now that I'm an old lady of 30.


I think our son's neurologist is betting on finding something *interesting* in his brain, when we do that MRI. I suspect he will be disappointed. I'm less-than-impressed, thus far, with his abilities, as he seemed bent on assuming our son was ret*d, upon meeting him (no idea why, he was being a bit quiet and weird, but in a normal AS sort of way), and was shocked and somewhat dubious when we informed him that our son has already tested as gifted, a month or so ago.

So yeah...not all that confident in the neurologist, heh.

Our area doesn't seem to have much, in the way of Asperger's experience, so - aside from what I learn on my own - we've been flying mostly blind.
I'm hoping there may be parents out there whose kids have had similar groupings of conditions. Or, barring that, any brilliant minds out there want to take a stab at connecting these conditions? I expect an Aspie community gives better odds of finding intelligent ideas than most.


Semi-related anecdote: I tried joining a local Autism/Asperger's online support group, not long ago, looking for similar experiences and insight. Seemed to be all Mommies, but I was hopeful that they must be rather bright, well-informed Mommies, right? Introduced myself, and made a few posts, trying very hard to edit down my usual perverse level of verbosity, in order to appear more "friendly" and less "OMGVULCANS!"

Apparently, that did not work. No one responds to my posts, and I am getting that distinct "Go Away, Weirdie" vibe.
I was offended, at first....then TREMENDOUSLY amused. It's possible, I suppose, that I don't "fit in" because we do not believe our kids "got" Asperger's from shots (we've never vax'd, a bit of info which always gets amusing reactions), our kids have no strange allergies or restrictive diets, and we don't consider Asperger's any sort of burden, blight, or misery.
Maybe that's why no one liked me. But personally, I like to imagine it was just my sparkling personality that sent them all running. ;D

So do I. I just don't personally happen to have any insight on your issues.
I wouldn't take it personally if no one responds. Your post is interesting. If anyone answers, I'd like to see it. I was going to hit the "Notify me..." button without commenting.

Well I'm no doctor, but I'm sure that it's possible that the growth and vision problems may be related to Asperger's. My son is also 4 1/2 and was just diagnosed with Asperger's. Not sure if his dad and myself are Aspies (probably not, but we're not exactly NT either) and we both have vision and other neurological disorders. I have astigmatism (don't bother using my glasses - they don't really work), my hubby has muscular dystrophy, and my son has had unexplained, recurrent occular cellulitis, very low muscle tone, and significantly pronated ankles. I think there could be a link, but I base that on my gut, and my brain is in my head, so that ain't worth much. One doctor is so very different from the next, that I'm sure you could get 10 different opinions from 10 different doctors. It could also be just coincidence. My husband likes to think that he can't get anything else (cancer, heart disease, severred limb, etc.) because he's already got MD. "Not so," I tell him as I send him out to mow the lawn with sunscreen and closed toe shoes.

I also don't buy the vaccination argument and happen to love my strange little kid exactly the way he is. And I, too, enjoy perverse levels of verbosity.

I should say, I *do* think it's entirely likely that one or all of the excessive number of vaccinations kids receive could bring out or exacerbate autistic traits, in more sensitive children. Immunizations can cause a nasty variety of conditions and/or damage, so I feel fairly certain that surely some kids do show developmental issues after one or more rounds of shots.

But clearly, there is a genetic basis. And when we walk in a doctor's office with these brilliant, healthy, decidedly Aspergian kids, and then start saying "Oh, no...no allergies. No pregnancy/birth complications. No prematurity. Never had shots" we tend to get very odd looks, lol. Worse, when we don't show the "appropriate" concern over the kids' weirdness.
You know, for years, I just cracked jokes about my own brand of Odd being inheritable, and privately smiled at the idea of having children just like me. I was shocked as all hell, to finally realize that I was NOT a lone weirdo, and that there was an actual name for what made us different. Then again, it was admittedly very nice to get some reassurance that so many of the things that made me feel stupid, growing up, were merely the result of a legitimately unusual brain.

So, I was thrilled to find out there were good reasons for my strangeness. And, considering I grew up with no awareness/support whatsoever, I'm overwhelmingly positive at how much better able our children will be to draw upon their strengths and manage their weaknesses. I have no idea what "normal" even feels like, so I see no downside to having a label for the "abnormal" that's been the only thing I've ever known.

I swear, though, it's almost begun to give me a complex over the whole thing, lol. I feel almost compelled to start faking sadness over our "poor, poor children," just to look like the Proper sort of Concerned Mother.

Welcome! I hope you'll find us much more pleasant to associate with than that "other" group. Not all posts get answered, of course, because AS tend to stay quiet if they don't feel they have anything productive or intelligent to add to the discussion. But I'm more NT than not so I tend to answer anyway

I wouldn't say that I've heard a lot about co-morbids like your son's. That doesn't mean they may not be related, it just means that I haven't run into those on these forums. I hear a lot about sensory issues, and also coordination / muscle tone / joint issues. A certain amount of food sensitivities as well. Basically, when it comes to those 3 co-morbids, more likely than not someone with AS will have 2 out of the 3.

It will be interesting to hear what you find out. I often wonder about the chicken and the egg question when it comes to co-morbids. Exactly HOW do they become associated? Because it isn't universal; its co-morbid. So more rare conditions can be co-morbid, as well. Part of the same mysterious process. Which has nothing to do with vaccines, lol. The connection has got to be somewhere before birth, don't you think?

Welcome to the site.

Welcome to the site.

I am a 22 year old male, who happens to weigh 110 lbs, and be 5'6". I didnt actually break the 100 pound mark until I was 20, and didnt reach my full height of 5'6" until I was 21. I was always the shortest, and skinniest kid in my grade (and also the 2 grades younger) by a wide margin. I also have 20/10 vision and tested as gifted on any standardized test.

So, either your son and I just happen to have several characteristics in common randomly, or perhaps we share some DNA.

However, I have never had problems with astigmatism or lazy eyes. So I dont know what to tell you about that.

It might interest you to know that there is another parent here called natesmom. Her son is short, skinny, great eyesight, and very intelligent too. So perhaps there is a connection somehow? I really dont know, nor do I think it really matters.

Although you might want to see if he has loose joints, I know that is common in autistic people. For example, I can easily take my thumb and bend it back to touch my forearm. It is possible your son might have that too.

I had amblyopia as a child and always assumed it was a muscular problem but read recently that they know now it's neurological. The reason it drifts off is because the brain isn't getting proper input so it just sort of gives upon that eye. I know some people used eye patches. I had to do exercises that crossed my eyes as my right eye would trail off. I have also read that it is sometimes associated with Asperger's. The group here is pretty irreverent ( which I like) I hope you enjoy visiting.

For the original poster, have you ever looked into Mitochondrial Disease? It is a collective term for different ways that the body is unable to produce or process energy.

There is tons of information at the following website:
http://www.umdf.org/site/c.dnJEKLNqFoG/ ... 2/Home.htm

There is also a book called MitoFirst, which is a primer on the condition. Go to page 7 to see a listing of body systems that might be affected:

http://www.umdf.org/atf/cf/%7B28038C4C- ... 0FIRST.pdf

Hope this helps!

Well, both my boys are big for there ages and in fact bigger then I was in highschool at the ages of 9 and 12 <but I'm the tallest woman in my family at 5ft >. They both have very good eyesight but nethier of them have amblyopia. My family moves alot because my husband is in the AirForce < but it's 100% medical can't be beat> so we've ran in to all kinds of doctors and it saddly sounds like you got an asshat don't feel bad I think most of us have found one or two of those as well. As for most of the parents on wrong planet we love and except our kids. I'm not one for the diets or the shot thing it might just be me but I aways distrust someone trying to hard sell me on a "cure" it has the feel of a late night infomercal to me but I'm a bit of a odd duck myself. Oh and both my boys are very bright my 12 yr old has some very as things about him but is not and I don't think ever need to be Ds for it and my 9yr old son is a nonverbal auntie but is a self taught reader and very, very sharp no putting anything passed that kid.

My son has moderate-severe pronated feet. His joints in his feet/ankles are very loose, but the ones in his wrists/hands are not??? Weird, he can't touch his thumb to his forearm...almost, but not quite.

And I can definitely relate to not being the "concerned mother" sometimes. It really depends what the problem is, but I am definitely not one to be all upset when the doctor finds something "abnormal".

tiffofdoom,

I am not a doctor either. It SOUNDS like the growth hormone problem is taken care of as well as it can. I ASSUME that their PROPORTIONS are correct. There ARE some dwarf type syndroms, but I think ALL have proportion issues.

One thing I WOULD suggest is to get a good eyedoctor(opthomologist AT LEAST) to look at that lazy eye. I think your son is close to the age where the brain LOSES its ability to properly accomodate the eyes. If you miss that window, his vision could be hurt forever.

I'm sorry to hear about the eye problem. Various eye correction treatments work best for people that are near sighted to normal with little or no astigmatism. I am far sighted with moderate astigmatism, so I know how that can be.

2ukenkerl:

I'm not sure what to think, about the growth issue. We were all (including his doc) really surprised to find he WAS making growth hormone, and just wasn't making use of it. The whole thing has been odd, and we just can't get used to the idea of having a child whose size/shape is so remarkably different from ours, our families', and even his own previous physique.
But yes, his proportions are fine, aside from the fact that his feet are so huge that it still makes him look like the rest of him should be much larger, and all of his joints seem much too large, but that looks like just the result of him having so little fat/muscle - he's a VERY good-looking kid, but also sort of looks like a goblin, with the bony frame and his usual rather spastic way of moving.

As for his lazy eye, he has been to a pediatric opthamologist in the past, and the experience was just ridiculous. We had tried patching, while waiting on the appointment, and that seemed to help a little, aside from our son's constant tearing at the patches, and the fact that he was still so tiny, at that point, that we had to cut patches down and the TAPE them on, lol.
But the opthamologist swore patching would not help, in his case, and that we should just use the glasses he prescribed.

Glasses did nothing, and he eventually broke them, which led to us bringing him to his sister's optometrist, for another opinion/new glasses. Now, that doctor says to patch (or occlude, rather), so we're going with his advice. He did refer us back to the same asshat opthamologist for further evaluation (this guy is the only pediatric opthamologist anywhere nearby), but we can't get in to see him, until September. Hoping the occluder will work so well, between now and then, that we can just cancel that appointment.

He's 4 1/2, and while I do worry over his eye "sticking" that way, I had a milder lazy eye, at about 5yrs old, and mine was able to be fixed. It still drifts, once in a blue moon, but to such a small degree as to be "cute," rather than embarassing. Had my parents actually bothered doing ANY followup, after my brief patching, I'm sure that eye wouldn't drift, at all.

You know, the funny thing is, we never had any clue that he HAD a vision problem, before the lazy eye issue popped up. He always seemed to see fine, and while he DOES have marked problems with balance/spatial awareness, glasses do not seem to correct that, and I'm the same way - always walking into doors, walls, etc, heh. Just looking at the fast, twitchy, TOTALLY oblivious way he moves, it's no mystery why he would fall down all the time, lol.


MomofTom:
I really don't know much about mitochondrial issues, but yes, I briefly looked into it. Never seemed to fit, though, as he's so stunningly healthy, aside from his tiny size and eye issues. You know...he can eat ANYTHING, has no allergy issues, rarely complains of any sort of sickness or pain, and is rarely sick, for that matter. All of his "strangeness" (aside from the above issues) fits neatly with Asperger's, and much of the way he acts/thinks is very similar to my own experiences, as a child.
So - although I could have this wrong - from what I've read, it seems like kids with mitochondrial issues have many more and stranger issues than he's ever had.


Tracker:
What are your parents' body types like? See, that was our problem - neither of us are small like our son, and HE didn't used to be small like this. His father is 6ft and HUGE, built like a Viking, with very large bones, heavy musculature, and plenty of padding. We've known each other all our lives, and even as a kid, he was never, ever anything close to small.
I'm about average, I guess. Size 12 or so, and 5'6, with wider shoulders than most women. I've never been really fat or really skinny, and was a HUGE baby - really fat, with a big ol' head, lol.
Our son used to be quite heavy - he was an obese baby, then a really stocky, muscular toddler; he looked like a tiny Conan, lol. Then sometime after age two, he just seemed to stop growing, and slowly lost all his size, while gaining no height. Even his feet stopped growing. It actually took me a YEAR to realize what was happening, because he had so much extra weight to burn through, before he started to really look disturbingly frail, and it became obvious he was not just "going through a phase."

All our bunch is gifted, which, in combination with Asperger's, makes for a completely insane household, lol. My husband and I were both gifted kids, and in my case, I had a 29 point span between Verbal and Performance IQs (Verbal higher). So far, we've had our oldest daughter and son tested, and they both scored about the same: slightly above average Crystallized intelligence, and Fluid intelligence about 30 points higher. Weird, being pretty much the reverse of my own scores, but sort of understandable, as they tested much younger than I did, and really don't have much in the way of General Knowledge, yet, outside of their very specific areas of interest; I'd be willing to bet that in a few years, their Non-Verbal sort of IQ will still be quite high, but Verbal will have flown right past it. Which sort of scares the hell out of us, heh, because that would mean they'd be far beyond us, intellectually.

I can't bend my thumb back to my forearm, and it really freaked me out to try, just now. But I am mildly hypermobile, in other ways. For example, I could write with my toes as a child, and still have a habit of turning lights off with my feet, when my hands are full, which never fails to get a "You. Are. Not. Human" from my husband.

LOLZ. Thank you for teaching me something new. I just asked my son to come over here and show me how far he could bend his fingers. He was really frightened at first, but when I promised-promised him that no, his fingers would NOT break off (heh), he did it. Turns out he can bend his fingers back almost to touching his arm, and twist his thumb in a horrible manner, till it touches his wrist. He, too, was very pleased with this discovery.

That reminds me: my husband can do awful things with his face - very "rubberfaced,"
ala Jim Carrey. Our son can do even WEIRDER stuff with his face, and once, in his pediatrician's office, he just randomly grabbed his face and pulled it down, so that it looked as if he were pulling his own face off; you could see a crazy amount of eye socket/"meat"/etc.
The doc FREAKED, lmao. He just could not fathom how a face could stretch THAT much with no pain/injury. We laughed our asses off, over that, and I congratulated our son on the impressive feat of having shown a doctor something sufficiently bizarre as to rattle him.

tiffofdoom,

When you say "lazy eye", I picture one failing to move in tandem wiith the other, or improperly. I was thinking about exercises, surgery, or maybe some kind of out treatment. I wouldn't think patches or glasses would help. I'm glad to hear YOU are OK, but that was STILL quite young. Some people apparently go blind in the lazy eye.

I think the feet are among the first part to grow, and they aren't always ass in proportion as you might think. As for the fact he was creating growth hormone, I used to think that testosterone was the male hormone that drove so much. When I found out about DHT, I figured that it was a leftover thing that I would want to get rid of.(I have male pattern baldness, which is caused by DHT). It turns out that a lot of things attributed to testosterone are REALLY due to DHT! Testosterone is merely converted to DHT. Some kids didn't have enough testosterone convert to dht, and ended up with birth defects. That isn't what happened to your son, but maybe something similar did. HEY, testosterone ALSO converts to estrodiol, an estrogen, and it is apparently one of the things that stops bone growth. AGAIN, not your son's problem, but it gives you an idea of how much can be involved.

Anyway, I wish you and your family the best of luck.

My mother is 5 foot exactly, and somewhat heavier set. She isnt overweight, but I wouldnt call her dainty. Probably slightly above average weight (or average for Americans). I dont know her exact weight because for some reason she thinks of that as private. I believe it is some normal person thing.

My father is 6 foot 4 inches and about 240 lbs. He is pretty well built all around.

As for the IQ, a wide range is fairly typical. My verbal IQ isnt that great, but my visual spacial ability is higher then anybody else I know. I can solve a rubics cube in under 2 minutes, but dont ask me to make small talk ;P. Other people have higher verbal IQ. Mostly it is caused by which side of your brain is overbuilt. Some people believe it is the difference between AS or HFA. In any case, it doesnt really matter. It is more important that you treat your son as an individual, not as a diagnosis.

And as for the loose tendons, that is fairly common amongst autistic people. It causes difficulty in controlling your muscles resulting in being uncoordinated. Your son's handwriting will probably also suck terribly. To be honest, it really isnt a problem. Just be aware that you will probably need to teach your son how to type because he is unlikely to do well at writing.

LOL, at "normal person thing." Something about the way you phrased that just cracks me up - I think I'll start using that phrase, myself. Long before I ever knew much of anything about Asperger's, I'd always ask my husband what was "normal" and what was not. Most of my own "weird stuff" I always kept to myself, so he's the only person I've ever sort of compared notes with, to see how weird Weird REALLY is. My husband has some Aspergian traits, and was always a very smart oddball, buthis thought processes are so different from my own and our kids, that he's close enough to Normal to be able to explain things I always privately wondered about.

I never understood why women, and even some men, hide their weight. If you're very fat, people can guess your weight is high, so who's being fooled? I almost never weigh myself, as I've always looked lighter than I am, so it's never been much use. But when I say that I don't know what I weigh (seriously, if I guessed, I'd say something around 150-160), no one ever believes me, and people just assume "all women are sensitive about their weight." :/


My verbal ability is profound; I was one of those little freaky toddlers who spoke like an adult. My non-verbal abilities are uneven, I would suspect. In some ways, I'm absolutely brilliant. In others, I'm probably average-to-above-average, but so much "slower" that it makes me feel ret*d.

I was really shocked when my kids did not just naturally learn language as fast as I did, as well as reading. It had never occured to me that one might have to teach a smart kid how to read, or that smart kids did not all speak so well, at say, two years old. Our kids were not delayed, speech-wise, but they were all on the "slow" end of the normal range, starting out, then almost overnight, developed extensive speech. Reading, however, has gone much more slowly; none of them are interested the way I was. Then again, they lead much more well-rounded, happy little lives than I did, which may have something to do with that.

Anyway, it was that uneven profile of intelligence that finally made everything real for me. I'd spent my whole life thinking I was "just weird," and possibly mentally disabled in some peculiar way, due to my habit of screw-ups and misunderstandings. Seeing my kids manifesting the same behaviors and eccentricities gave me pause. But I still kept telling myself that most likely it was all in my head, until we decided to have our oldest daughter evaluated for the Gifted program. Out of curiousity, I dug out my old Gifted evaluation, and it was all there. A slap-in-the-face reminder of what I'd been like, as a child. And that glaring 29-point gap in my scores (which no one thought much of, as it was like, 1987, lol).

I told the psychologist who administered our daughter's IQ test, and she just sort of gave me the weird eye. Then she saw our daughter's scores...and then our son's, and ended up confused and alarmed, lol.




So far, so good, on his writing. He's only now become interested in reading or writing (just so he can better use Google image search, lol), so his writing is sort of crap, right now. But it looks about as good as the average kid just learning to write. Weirdly enough, he's currently having some kind of explosive growth, in art, so that helps. His older and younger sisters are both fantastic artists, far beyond their age levels, but up until very recently, he was well below age-level, at drawing. Got very angry/frustrated, on the rare occasions he even wanted to try it.

Then one day, he just suddenly started drawing, and at about the same time, writing his name and words relating to his interests. Within a few weeks, he made a couple years worth of progress.

So, for whatever strange reason, I kind of think we may have dodged a bullet, with that one. I'd love to know what finally clicked over, in his brain, to make that possible.