Discussions on discipline? Yes, please!

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Hi all,

I found this site last night and am still going over the Aspie posts with a fine-toothed comb. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being here and for talking about this stuff. I'm a single mom going nearly crazy trying to be the best mother I can to my (regular? NT?) son and aspie daughter.

One problem is that I'm already a fairly highstrung individual and multitasking sends me into a stress spiral (and, of course, parenting two kids is constant multitasking). I am on Zoloft, which does take the edge of anxiety, and I suppose to the average person I don't seem like I overreact or freak out, but it's very close to the surface a lot of times. I know how stressed I am even if others don't always.

To make a frankly biased statement, my kids are fantastic - but I have several references to back this statement up. In school & church, my 6-year-old daughter is well-behaved and appears to be shy/quiet, but at home she is nearly constant work. I've stopped spanking because, while the threat of spanking strikes terror in her heart, the actual spanking enrages her and she will throw an even bigger fit. Well, that's fine, I hate spanking anyway and was only using it as a last resort. Thank goodness I have solid evidence that I shouldn't be doing that.

I've had to switch her doorknob with the lock on the outside because timeouts used to mean me physically hauling her BACK into her room for timeout, over and over and over and over and...yeah. We were both getting more worked up. So this keeps her in for the allotted time, and because I always give her the same amount of minutes and set my timer, she is much less resistant to timeouts - although there's still the initial shouting and throwing things at her door. By the time I unlock the door and tell her she can come out, she's been playing quietly on the floor and slams the door shut again with a defiant, "No! I'm NOT coming out!" But then soon enough she does, and is almost as calm as if nothing happens.

Sometimes I can redirect her and that works well, such as a few evenings ago when she kept hitting her older brother and throwing things at him (including his own toys, one of which she broke). At first I was so shocked by her aggressive behavior toward him that I tried punishing her like I would him, which of course escalated things. Then I asked her to come help me do dishes, and she calmed down immediately, as she always likes to be helpful, and a sense of accomplishment goes far in her book. I felt I was letting her off the hook, and that my son might feel the same way, and yet...she treated him nicely the rest of the evening. She was back to her sweet self after doing dishes with me, enough so that, when I suggested in a whisper that she go tell her brother she was sorry, she hurried to do just that, and threw in a hug for good measure.

I do try to learn and modify my parenting style with her, but I still feel I wait too long and let things escalate. I'm hoping that I can talk enough with other parents of aspies (and aspies themselves) to get a better understanding of how to approach her. Also, I'm beginning to see that I need to somehow find more chances to recharge myself, as the stress of being constantly "on duty" with her can take its toll sometimes. I realize parents are always on duty but with her, it's the amount of emotional duty and psychological duty and physical duty (seems I'm ALWAYS picking her up and moving her from something!). She's worth it, and I want to always give it my best; and feeling I could be doing better is a constant nagging feeling.

This was a very long post. Thanks for listening (er, reading)!

Nagging won't get you very far with an AS child.

And I don't think having her help with dishes was letting her off. She did a chore, instead. If it has to be explained, that is what you say. Re-direction works wonderfully with my son, and I've found that because he perceives things differently it works better to suggest he "take a break in his room" or "come help me with something" than to tell him he is in time out. He'll fight being told he was in error, but not the idea he might need a break or change.

He likes my requests to make sense to him and, as long as they do, he'll be really good about complying. So with him it's more about being clear and logical, and maybe taking the time to answer a question or explain, than threatening. Threatening can escalate quite horribly.

I would suggest figuring out the triggers, the things that tend to work her up, and find ways to avoid or mitigate those situations. It also helps to know what she finds self-calming, so that you can re-direct her to that. My son's big thing is pacing, so when I see stress build up in him, I can say, "maybe you should pace for a while."

We've had quite a few threads on both topics in the past, so if I get a chance I'll look some up and link back.

It sounds like you've come a long way towards understanding your unique child. Good luck!

The better she learns to understand herself, the less she'll need to be disciplined by you. After all, that's the point, isn't it? Eventually, she learns to regulate herself and you don't have to impose it externally.

Sensible rules that you know exactly beforehand can be really helpful. And I mean, written down and explained, not just "that should be obvious", because it really isn't sometimes...

"... she always likes to be helpful, and a sense of accomplishment goes far ..."

Maybe you can begin helping/leading her toward looking for those kinds of opportunities on her own?

I don't know how old your daughter is, but I used to have to hold the door closed on my son when he was 3, 4 years old and having meltdowns. I explained it to him like this;

"I can't let you (kick, bite, hit, scream, throw things, fight me, defy me, break rules, run away etc)."
"I'm putting you in your room now." (put him in his room).
"You are in your room because you..__________"
"I will be outside the door listening, I will know you are better, and ready to come out, when you stop screaming. Okay? I know you aren't ready to come out yet, because you're still screaming. When you stop screaming, I will open the door and let you out. I'll be right here listening for you to be quiet. Then you can come out. I'm shutting the door now. Let me know when you're ready to come out by being quiet."

Now my son was really young when I did that, but the idea can be tailored for an older child.

As soon as it got quiet, I opened the door.
"Oh good, you've stopped screaming - " (sometimes he started up again at that, then I'd just say "oops, I thought you were ready, sorry, I'll wait longer")
"Alright, now that you're better you can come out whenever you want. The door is open. It's over now."

And I leave the door ajar and walk away.
When he comes out, sometimes immediately or sometimes a few minutes later, I greet him happily and change the subject. His punishment is over, and I let it go.

He seems grateful for that.

Personally I am committed to using the vocabulary of choice. If you choose to do x then y will happen. This means that sometimes the child will make a poor choice "If you choose not to wear gloves then your hands will get cold." The child should then (hopefully, my kids are still young) learn to think about decisions and choose wisely. (Yes, I do bring along extra gloves, as most choices can be revised later on, people learn from mistakes.)

Admittedly this is not an easy form of dicipline, and I do need to get creative in life and death choices. However, both my little girls will one day be teenagers and then young women, and I want them to be practiced in making appropriate choices when I am not around to watch them.

The other thing I like about the vocabulary of choice is that it empowers the child. "If you choose to do x then you will get a time-out.... what would be a better choice?" If I am able to have the discussion before the poor choice is made then my child feels that she has power over her own destiny.

In my mind, and I am open to other parents who want to correct me, the vocabulary of choice is similar to how adults act. If you choose not to pay your taxes then you will face an audit... If you choose to break the law then you will end up in jail. As adults we look at our choices and select the best of the options available.

Good luck. My little girl is the type that would have to be physically held down for a time out, she would rip the door off it's hinges if I ever tried to shut her in her room. If I do need to use a time out then I talk with her about ways to calm down. I also use the vocabulary of time out for myself. Mommy needs a time out right now, she needs 3 quiet minutes to herself and then she come back and play. By modeling time outs I hope that she doesn't see them as a punishment, but more as a time for quiet reflection and getting ones emotions under control.

I agree. I’m convinced a lot of my daughter’s disobedience is because of misunderstanding or having gotten worked up and being unable to calm down. Of course she’s still a regular kid who’s going to want her own way from time to time, but I sense that isn’t the problem much of the time.



This is something I need to remember – what’s obvious to me and her older brother is NOT always obvious to her, even if I know I’ve gone over it with her before.



That’s a good point. I’m afraid I nearly discourage her taking the initiative in helping me because she’ll do things like wash the sink with her dirty socks, or put a very carefully folded pile of clean clothes in the dirty laundry, or do any number of things which start out well-intentioned but end up with me cleaning up a spill or something broken. However, if she had regular chores she could count on getting to do, I think that would be very fulfilling for her, and I’m embarrassed to say I haven’t yet given her many regular chores.

Vivienne & PenguinMom, you’re right – I’ve seen that verbalizing it in that way and putting the choice in her hands really does help. Sometimes I don’t think on my feet very well, or too many things will be going on at once, and I’ll revert to dealing with her like I would deal with my son, which of course ends in disaster and tears on both sides. (LOL – how on earth my boy puts up with the two of us is beyond me!) I'm hoping I'll get more practiced at it until it's just second nature to shift gears when it comes to her. I usually view her meltdowns as a signal that I didn't preemptively deal with something well enough.

I forgot to mention, Vivienne, the scene with your son throwing a fit while you held the door until he was done could have been me and my 6-year-old girl. After awhile I thought maybe she'd give up sooner if she knew I wasn't on the other side listening, which is why I put the lock on the outside of her door, and also I was hoping that she would be comforted with the timed time-out, as it was something she could count on, could watch her clock, you know. But yes, I also very much like making the length of the time-out dependent on the child's ability to calm themselves. I'm afraid I didn't always have the patience for that but I still like it.

PenguinMom, I love that you model time-outs yourself - what a good lesson for your daughter and break for you! I need to start doing that!