Convinced he is "Dumb"

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My 11 son is convinced he is dumb. He's not "dumb" he has an average iq. It doesn't matter how many times or how many different ways I try to point out his strengths or tell him how clever he is still convinced he is dumb and I am his mum and I have to say he's not.
He has gotten angry with me a few times for disagreeing with him. He tells me I am not helping him, he is trying to just accept that he is stupid.
He is having a lot of learning issues at school, he finds the work hard and confusing especially math. James is grade 5 now, he repeated grade 2 at his previous extremely unhelpful former school. I kept being told at his former school that he was fine and he was right where he should be but I knew he wasn't and no one would give me the info I needed to help him. J got his dx at the end of his second stint in grade 2, so it was a little late. The additional problem now is that no one apart from me can really pick up when J is stressed he is doing an awesome job of holding it in whilst at school, then sleeping or if pushed melting down when school is over. He is also extremely articulate (another prob) people assume because he uses big words that he is more advanced than he is.
His current school (really nice people,J loves his teachers)are doing all that they think is right (its not) to catch him up to where he should be, they have really high expectations, its all taking its toll, I believe my son is burning out.
Last year he got 4 new dx's on top of the AS. He got ADHD, GAD, OCD and tourettes. J Doesn't have any funding, according to those that decide who gets it and who doesn't, J isn't bad enough. I think its because he doesn't act out at school. My older son suggested to him that like when he is frustrated at home at school he should kick a chair or punch a wall. No way you aren't allowed to do that, he would make people angry with him and he would get into trouble, this was his response. When asked if he ever did feel like doing those things at school, the answer was of course he does, he just can't.
It's breaking my heart. This whole situation has really effected my family, our hands are tied by a stupid system.

i honestly hate the schooling system, it is useless and painful.

anyway try to point to famous people who were bad in school but were successful later in life. Also try to make him feel better by asking some of the random people to solve his homework. Most of the grown-ups would not be able to solve lots of math problems I am sure. i hope he will get over it soon.

I was convinced that I was dumb, when I was your son's age. No matter what my mum told me, I still thought that I was stupid, or else I wouldn't be in Special Ed. I've found out, that I'm not dumb at all, four years later. I found out that I was HFA and I wasn't dumb, at all.

Telling your son he is not dumb is very unlikely to work.
I think.
I never cared if someone thought I was not dumb.
Where I live, only my opinion matters.
Besides, I have on other threads expressed my opinion on words for comfort as opposed to actions for solutions.
Those teachers should definitely not try to push him like that if he is going to burn out because in the end, it takes less time to rest a while regularly than it takes to recover from a burnout, at least, until he is up to the level that the teachers expect him to be at.
But it seems odd to me that he is not bad enough.
Although maybe they mean bad as in unacceptable behaviour instead of bad as in severe.

my daughter doesn't say she's dumb, but she does say she isn't smart...or isn't as smart as. I think for her...I don't know if this applies to your son...because her forgetfulness and extreme disorganization often effect her grades, and she often can't find things she needs (she sat at my feet crying about not being able to find things two night ago...it was kind of heart breaking). She's twelve, and over the years these issues have taken their tole on her. I am happy that she's having success in her social studies class, which could be classified as her special interest...or something she's just really good at remembering (geography, how countries are connected to one another, etc). Because I think it's helped her to see herself a bit more realistically....and that like a lot of her classmates, she has her own set of gifts. But this is hard...harder still because she insisted to staying at her school when they switched from part "open" program to all IB (international baccalaureate)...the work is more challenging now and I think it's more of a struggle than it would be in a 'regular school.'

aurea, my guess is that your telling him he's not dumb is coming across as having high expectations, which puts more pressure on him. It's that pressure that he's resisting.

What you'd like is for it to come across as supportive confidence, based on your belief that he's actually reasonably smart.

Unfortunately I don't have any specific suggestions. Hopefuly you will be able to come up with ideas.

Sounds like the school is just pushing him to do things which are too difficult, and trying to rush him. My brother has the same problem with mathematics. He eventually just gave up and failed out of math. My brother would definitely qualify for a diagnosis of dyscalcula.

That being said, have you tried giving him a calculator? That is how my brother wound up graduating high school. He failed math so many times that the school eventually just gave up on him. They gave him a chance to earn his math credit if he could pass a standardized test where, unlike the classroom, he could use a calculator. Once you showed him how to use the calculator he did just fine.

Since I do work in engineering, I know that math is a very useful thing to learn. It is a good thing that some people in our population like engineers, chemists, and physicist learn it. However, for the vast majority of careers, math is fairly useless. The only math most careers require is basic adding/multiplying which you can do on the calculator if you know how to use it. My brother wound up getting a degree in programming, and now has a fine job. So it isn't as though your child needs to be great at math in order to function in life. If my brother is any example, you can do just fine with barely being able to multiply.

I'd agree that knowing how to multiply should be sufficient, but I'd be a little worried that a calculator could prevent even that. Arithmetic is useful even at the grocery store and using a calculator there could be cumbersome.

Hi everyone and thanks for all the replies.

The issue of letting my son use a calculator was discussed and I believed going to be allowed last year at our last meeting with the school. My son is in with the same teachers this year and it appears all that was talked about at our last school meeting has been forgotten about. Its so frustrating. Lets be realistic, maths is causing my boy a lot of stress at this stage he just doesn't get it. At this stage I don't care if he learns to compute answers in his head or if he has to use a calculator. Take the stress away and allow him to experience some success. If in the future when he is less stressed he realizes he actually needs to know how to do math in his head without the use of a calculator, there is no doubt in my mind that he wont be able to teach himself how to do this.

aurea,

I'm about to tell you something EVEN the schools don't seem to know. I realized it around when I was about 6 years old or so, and have been upset about it EVER SINCE!

Schools CLAIM that they are there to TEACH and educate kids.

The TRUTH is that they want EVERY kid to fit a MOLD and hit STANDARD milestones, and teach them the SAME WAY!

If your kid is pretty dumb, GREAT, it may seem to be GREAT for him/her.

What happens if they EXCEL in some area? NOTHING! They will be "taught" the SAME way in that area and get BORED, and won't learn much there. MEANWHILE, they have to STRUGGLE in areas where they DON'T do well. Your child will get poorer grades in ALL subjects, and may feel DUMB!

What they SHOULD do is give him harder work in his strong areas, and cover the weak areas better. Not only would he feel smarter and be happier, but his strengths will be obvious and teachers and peers would harass him less about his weaknesses.

HECK, if he is REALLY smart, as you say, they probably held him back for only one weak subject. The TEACHER failed, your son didn't.

I have a theory on why your son is convinced he's "dumb": he's been brainwashed by the bullies in school. Oftentimes, NT kids don't really care about the difference between social smarts and intellectual smarts, and only focus on the social. As a result, when they encounter a kid with low social intelligence (who often happens to be an aspie), they automatically brandish him as "dumb", even when he's getting straight A's in every subject. Now, it goes without saying that bullies will insult the kid by calling him dumb (actually using him for his smarts comes later, like in middle school or high school). So, over the weeks, months, or even years he's been hearing it, it became internalized in his mind, enough to make him believe that he is indeed dumb, as opposed to being simply insulted by it.

Sadly, there are few or no solution for counteracting the brainwashing other than time. Enough time needs to pass with him not being bullied for his beliefs to wear off. Also, since he's at the age when he starts valuing his opinions of his peers' more than those of adults', words of encouragement may not work. After all, it's the adults saying them, plus, they go against what he's been brainwashed into believing (that he's dumb).

I think there are a few things that need to happen. First, the calculator is a must. You can worry about his ability to add up his milk and eggs later, for now the priority should be his SELF ESTEEM and confidence as a LEARNER. He is at a big bump in the road and his teachers should make it their priority to find creative ways to move him past that bump.

If the calculator helps move him past this bump, insist on it immediately and go as high as you need to in order to make it happen. Which brings me to the second thing I think may need to happen: it sounds to me like you may have to increase your persistence level and your involvement with his school if they are well-intentioned but misguided. You are half-way there with the well-intentioned. My son did not even get THAT last year. What a lot of the other members here are saying, and which I whole heartedly agree with, is that you need your son to figure out first-hand that he is not dumb, he LEARNS DIFFERENTLY.

His school MUST understand this and his teachers must adapt. It is not his responsibility as someone on the spectrum to adapt to their way of teaching. It's their responsibility to adapt their way of teaching to the spectrum. You may need to really do your homework on this front - read some books on autistic learners (specifically with Math) and talk with your son about what precisely is hard for him, what works for him? Then, go to his teachers and start devising a plan to teach him differently.

Give up telling him he's not dumb and PROVE it to him

Sadly I relate to this very much. One psych we saw told us that it was pointless for us to tell him he isn't dumb, when the message that he isn't as good or as smart as the other kids is being driven into his head in a 1000 different ways every day, he won't believe us. He said we need to show him, by setting him up to feel competent however we can (developing his special interests, giving him tasks he can be successful at, letting him be the expert etc.). We spent the entirety of last summer working at this, and by the end of his holidays he was a different kid. This year at school I really stressed how seriously depressed and stressed out he was by the end of last year (grade 3), and the need for more accommodations and services whether he appears to need them or not. He is another one who will "white knuckle" his way through his day, holding all his emotion and anxiety in and then melting down when he is safely at home. And the school has tried, but now the problem has become them not expecting enough out of him academically but still expecting way too much from him socially. I simply can't seem to get this through to them, no matter which way I try...they are very well meaning but just don't "get" him at all. He has only recently started having meltdowns again at school (he got a new teacher in Jan. due to a mat leave and is having a lot of trouble communicating with her) and they are at a loss what to do with him, but the solutions are often sooooo simple. For example the last meltdown was over having to choose a partner at school, the teacher asked him to choose from 3 of his friends, and OF COURSE, he couldn't handle that. Talk about a socially complex situation! And they thought they were helping him choose a partner! He ended up with no partner, pacing around the room in panic and mortification, because how would he do the activity without a partner? And the more agitated he got, the more they tried to talk to him, when OF COURSE he was way beyond talking at that point. *sigh* He has worked so hard to contain his outbursts at school, because he is keenly aware of how socially unacceptable it is, so for him to be pushed to that point really shows how poorly they are handling him.

My sons also have failed to qualify for funding so far. Reasons given: not cognitively impaired, not aggressive. I knew I should have never taught them not to punch the other kids!?! We are in the process of reapplying. They are lost at school. Hopefully since they are now academically behind (they weren't yet last year), and maybe with this latest rash of meltdowns it will tip the scale in their favor. It is so frustrating. The teachers are doing all they can in a classroom with 20-something other kids (several others with their own special needs), but without some one on one help they will just continue to fall behind. And the further they lag behind the more their self esteems will plummet.

I really sympathize with your frustration. I wish I had advice to give (and to give myself too!). We are leaving no stone unturned in our effort to secure funding and educate the teachers, and if in the end we can't I am not sure what is next for us.

To up date you all.

I sent an email to the schools vice principle, then he rang me. He has agreed that at this stage it is far more important for J to experience some success. He stated that he was behind me 100%, J's work needs to be broken down (as we had I believed all agreed at last years meeting, this had not been happening). He also spoke with J's class teachers J will be going into the slightly younger maths group until he is ready to move up. He will be contacting the schools psychologist for some advice and perhaps some school counseling for J. I feel a little better now.

I also managed to have a conversation with one of the aides that is in my sons room for another child. She ended up in tears, she was so sorry that they hadn't picked up on what was going on. She met me again after school to tell me that she had spoken with my son and told him that if he ever needed help or felt confused he could always come and see her. He apparently said "but I'm not supposed to have an aide". She had to reassure him that she would do her best to help him and no one would mind.

Anyway all in all a very productive day. Now fingers crossed that everyone will follow threw. I'm so worn out by fighting for my sons rights ALL the time, and having to continually prove that he is who he is and how it effects him, because it is out of the realm of what most people expect.

thank you to everyone who took the time to read and or respond.

cheers
aurea xxx

Glad to hear things are moving in the right direction for J. Still I would be pushing for that calculator. I was terrible at maths, so bad I got a private tutor in the 5th grade because I just didn't understand the basics. I still don't grasp the basics. I could rote learn the multiplication table and parrot it off to anyone who asked, but I just didn't get what it was I was saying.

In year 7, I got to use a calculator. I went from one of the bottom maths classes to the top and went on to do 3 unit Maths (second top level of maths you can do in NSW), could do algebra and calculus, kept up with my class and got pretty high marks. Still to this day, can't do basic arithmetic though.

Some of us just don't graps the basic concepts no matter how they are broken down and explained to us, but we can succeed when given the right tools to help us.

by funding ,do you mean social security disability?? You need to appeal and do it soon if its been more than 90 days you need to reapply then appeal. Don't give up on this.It took me 2 years for my son but then we got a back check for the full amount for 2 years. and he has been getting it ever since. It helps a lot but if you make a lot of money you won't qualify.I think the $ is 2200 a month that would be too much for a family of 3.