Loud Meltdowns

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Im so thankful to come here and talk with those who understand as we are not in a support group. At four she has not been evaluated for some of her behavior and kindergarten is looming. But I digress.

If your child is screaming loudly and out of control do you ever have a concern that neighbors will hear and misinterpret the tantrum? Are you concerned that the situation appears worse then it is?

We've got neighbors and I try to be calm outside and quietly talk to her or now I take her inside as recently she had a meltdown while putting her into the car to visit some relatives she loves. It just makes no sense and seems to come out of left field. She's stubborn, but fun until she has a meltdown
If it is bad enough I let her run around outside till I can get her to walk inside with some decorum. There we wait it out and try to get her distracted and more calm.

While I'm posting will someone explain to me what Oppositional Disorder would look like in a four yearold? She often tells us no and says the opposite of what we know she really means when we ask her certain questions. Being the first I cannot tell which is normal four yearold behavior and what is extreme.

Honestly I always thought "Opposition defiant disorder" was a BS diagnosis.

My cousin, who is perfectly normal, had monumental temper tantrums when he was younger. He was a head banger and he'd bang his head on the tile floor. I'm still not sure how he didn't suffer some type of damage from this but he did grow out of the tantrums.

Understood, Pook. Meltdowns do hurt........very recently this was posted on the Wrong Planet and the information may be relevant for you as a parent. Although your daughter is just 4 you are right in that others sometimes can and will misinterpret. I might suggest all the posts written in link below are applicable:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... &p=2784189

You may wish to have Autism Hand-Out Cards (and medic alert id) on the ready, to your discretion.

Next, if I can add, a weighted blanket is the best! Indispensable where nothing else helps. Check online, such as www.weightedblanket.net

May be covered by your medical insurance too (keep your receipt). I do not know about oppositional disorder, BUT meltdowns are, unfortunately, "normal" for ASD individuals. Perhaps you can somewhat educate those closest to you, like your next door neighbor, so there's another who is aware in case of questions. Aside from that, please know that meltdowns are mostly sensory and not at all that she's being oppositional to you. Hope the WP link above is helpful. I imagine she'll outgrow most of what you described too.

4 is one of those ages where they will be testing the boundaries, so even for an NT child its not abnormal to be telling you no. they can also be learning manipulation and deception at that age.

my 13 yr old, while not dx odd, has always been severely oppositional. he argues with everything, from sun up to sun down. he argues about getting up, brushing his teeth, getting dressed, wearing a coat outside in the middle of a michigan 10 degree winter. he argues about eating dinner and taking out the trash and going to bed. he will argue until backed into a corner and proven wrong, then continue to argue. consequences have never been a deterrent for him, and his arguments will escalate into screaming and crying. this is how hes been since about 2, and how he is every single day. his tone is one of argument, negative and oppositional. nothing you say will dissuade him., and its all emotional all the time.

in contrast, my 4 yr old aspie tells us no all the time. he does so matter of factly. its not said to argue with us, but to simply state what he believes. its usually pretty unemotional, unless we press the issue with him, and then he will get frustrated and angry with us if we push too far. our usual tact with him is a "lets prove it" attitude. for instance, when gotten up for school, he'll frequently tell us "i no have school". so we simply say "lets go to school and ask ms becky if you have school". it gets him moving and by time he gets there, he forgets to ask. overall, most of his nos are unemotional and from his rigid or logical thinking, they are not oppositional in nature.

as for the volume of our house, yeah it worries me sometimes heh. moreso because i am an apartment complex manager and have to set a good example. but there have been times when i wonder what people think when one of my children is screaming hysterically, or kicking and screaming on the floor of the grocery store, or simply melted into an uncommunicative puddle on the sidewalk. most people mind their own business tho, and i think the sympathetic looks have been about equal with the disgusted ones.

i do plan to get some autism shirts tho for our aspie, and make some hand out cards too. his stimming behaviors are increasing the past few months, and i think it will help with the curious looks and just plain freaked out stares he sometimes garners.

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a nice way for doctors to tell you your kid is a brat...I also agree its a BS diagnosis. They tried to give that to me with my oldest son. He is Bi Polar! If a child that young is having serious tantrums it may be due to sensory dysfunction...what may seem like nothing to you may be something horrible to her. Sometimes you have to be a detective. You may want look up symptoms of Autism and Sensory dysfunction and then make the decision if you want her evaluated. Better to have her evaluated than do nothing or just guess!

I am certain she does have sensory issues as I and my husband do. I can hear someone sneeze or talk a few houses down from us. I remember how distracting it was for me when I was at work to not be able to tune out individual discussions even down the hall when the office was quiet. She and I both have above normal sight from what I have observed

A melt down has not occurred out in public yet and I keep hoping they will be mostly an only at home ordeal. It seems while out with grandparents or other relatives she doesn't act out like she will at home and I'm guessing that is normal. I believe she is bright and so far has not shown any signs of LD's.

So thinking I believe the problem behaviors are meltdowns and oppositional attitude. I wouldn't be suprised if she will need an evaul especially starting school.

Btw How do u cope with your child receiving vaccinations when this could occur?

Most of the time my daughter has meltdowns at home, rarely ever out in public or school. They sometimes get wound up and then explode in a place where they feel safe.

I've had plenty of times that my kids have done things I worried would get social services checking on me, but they haven't visited yet. Sure, some people will give you dirty looks, but they tend to realize they don't know what is going on. Well, maybe rant about it at home, but they don't have the level of certainty it takes to create action. Parents with some experience will watch the situation to get a proper feel for it, and then walk away after seeing all those little things that make it clear the child is having a lovely little tantrum like many perfectly acceptably raised little ones (those are the parents who are your biggest allies if something does happen to your child, so don't worry about them looking and watching). Then there are the ones who think they know it all better than you and try to tell you your child is just a brat ... well, they are stuck up idiots and we get to ignore them, and thankfully they are rare. So ... I wouldn't care what the neighbors hear or think. You just can't worry about it; there is too much else.

The key with meltdowns is mitigation. Find the triggers and stresses, and reduce them. That is a long and slow road, but definitely the most effective.

ODD isn't exactly a BS diagnosis, but it can be used that way. It's a pre-curser diagnosis to more serious problems. Young children can sometimes seem to be developing Bi-polar or BPD and later outgrow it (often with therapy). Diagnosing it as ODD instead of BP or BPD is a way to avoid slapping a permanent label on a kid who might end up without those conditions, while still recognizing that there is a serious problem that needs treatment. Untreated true ODD can develop into serious mental problems.

A certain amount of oppositional behavior is normal and even necessary for a child to develop a sense of self vs others. It's annoying but not pathological. Some kids are able to get through it without a lot of drama while others need to express themselves more thoroughly. This child may have more gifts in the expressive language area so it comes out more dramatically. An older child doing this stuff could have some developmental delays and be going through the terrible twos at a later stage, but 4 is not outside of the normal range for this stuff.

I've sometimes taken a moment to explain my children's behavior to strangers if I felt it could lead to trouble. I don't go into great detail but will say "He has sensory issues and is on overload right now. I'm so sorry he's being so loud, he just doesn't understand about how he's affecting everybody else yet. The doctor says it'll get better...eventually." A vague reference to a doctor lets them know that professionals are already involved and they don't need to be concerned.