Public School issues, what to do?

Post Reply New Topic

Today I observed the only 2 2nd grade classrooms at dd's school so I could pick a class for next year. Let's just say I choose NEITHER. My dd is almost 7. She is at/beyond grade level in academics (really advanced in math). The problem is social. When I observed the 2 classes there's just NO way I see my dd in these classes. There was very little structure, it was very chaotic, kids were talking and poking each other and the teachers were both struggling to ignore most of the misbehavior and just teach to a mostly mentally absent bunch of kids.

One class was very disorganized with kids walking around, rocking in their chairs, talking etc while the teacher tried to teach at the blackboard. However, this class did seem to have the most intelligent of the two classes (and that's not saying much). At least in this class I did see a few kids writing the assignment that was being taught.

The other class was what seemed to be a more "outside the box" teacher who was having them give presentations on animals. The other kids were disrespecting everyone by talking, laying on the floor, propping their feet on the desk, etc. Yikes.

I just cannot see my daughter in either of these places! My dd, while academically on level is socially and emotionally not even capable of dealing with first grade. She cries every morning not to go to school, although they say she is fine when she's there. After school, she's so tired from holding it together all day that she's on edge, volatile, and weepy.

I just don't know what to do! I live in a small town with no Autism curriculum or intervention. My dd was denied an IEP and doesn't even have a 504 because in their words "she's too high functioning". I don't want her in the Sp Ed group, because they're mainly MR kids but the alternative feels like I'm throwing her to the wolves.

Anyone have any suggestions? I'm not rich but could scrimp and cut in areas to afford private school but all we have here is Catholic School and Montessori. She was in Montessori until this year but it was way too unstructured and they wouldn't work with me. I do have to say this school does bend over backwards to try to help my dd and accommodate my frustrations. We have monthly progress meetings and they have informal interventions for her.

I'm just really frustrated. There's no way I can homeschool. I have to earn a living as I am a single mom.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

If your daughter has been diagnosed with ASD its illegal for them to deny you an IEP.

are likely being violated here. Federal law and most state laws legally defines "academic performance" as academic, social, adaptive, and behavioral. What you need to do is find your state's federally mandated disability advocacy agency, which operates under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Autism is considered a disability and therefore your child is entitled to Section 504 accommodations at bare minimum, but possibly special education services as well.

And here's a news flash that your ADA agency will let your school in on- if they cannot provide a free appropriate public education due to lack of awareness about Autism, they have to either get up to speed with training and/or hiring appropriate professionals, or they have to FUND your child's education in a more appropriate setting for her. Trust me. Call your ADA agency. Their services should be free. And Section 504 is a given if your child has a clinical diagnosis.

My dd does have a diagnosis from the most well respected University Health system here. She has dx of Aspergers and Developmental Coordination Disorder. Prior to enrolling my dd I notified the school of her dx. Then started the legal red tape and Sp Ed Evaluation procedures. After lengthy evaluation they stated a "medical" dx does not mean an "educational" dx. At that time all Sp Ed Services were denied but they recommended 504 accommodations. Then we met with 504 coordinator who said we'll do all the accommodations and modifications you want, she doesn't "need" a 504. That's when the monthly meetings began and the pseudo-accommodations. I don't really consider them true accommodations because they don't follow through on them unless I go to the school and make them, such as earplugs in the gym, exemption from assemblies, etc. These people at the school don't understand Asperger's. They think Autism is the Kanner's type only. They use my dd's excellent academic scores as proof that she needs no IEP or 504. Trust me, I've tried fighting them! I even met with the Sp Ed Director of the District and requested an IEE and she said "why? You have the best Diagnostic Report you can get". She said, you don't want your daughter in Sp Ed, she's far too smart.
So that's where I am in a nutshell. I can't change things evidently until her academic scores fall. So I am left with just trying to force the interventions and protect her as much as possible. I fought hard this year trying to forge a relationship with her teacher and cozy up to her to get the needed supports in class. I was fairly successful. I guess I am wondering if my dd will ever like school or if it will always be a scary place, full of sensory bombardment and people who just don't "get" her?

I understand you not wanting to throw her into a special ed class when academically she is doing well but she should have an IEP. Not to make her stand out or "label" her (as they like to say) but to make sure that her sensory issues are covered and understood. She may require OT which they have to provide, they have to provide whatever she need to get through her day. They also need to protect her from being picked on and overstimulated. I know its not a perfect world and some of this might be difficult for the school system but they are doing nothing for you and that is illegal. Unfortunately most people do equate ASD's with being seriously disabled, there is a serious lack of education and a lot of ignorance. I would try to look up an IEP advocate online in your area...it may cost a bit but they can help you with the legal end of things. Or you could just threaten her school....as they always tell me "be a squeaky wheel" (which actually amuses me)...in other words the more you push and make noise the more results you will get.
I think it sucks that you have to go through this, I know what its like to have the school system and teachers not want to work with you. I had serious issues with my oldest son who is now an adult. They even let him walk away from the school down a highway when he was only 7 years old. I took him out of school....I know you dont have that option....and even so I still didnt do much to help my son. It was me against all of them and I didnt have the tools or knowledge to get help. I dont want that to happen to any other child or parent!

She gets OT weekly and has for 2 years. Her handwriting, while definitely not up to a level of her peers, is not bad enough to warrant support. Her emotional needs are excessive, and I have been lucky to have a warm, motherly teacher for her this year (even if she is fairly ignorant about my dd's issues). I just don't see either of the two options for teachers next year being that teacher who would allow dd to shadow them, sit with them at recess, or give her extra explanation and emotional support. I fear she is being "pushed" through because quite frankly they don't know what to do unless there is some kind of quantifiable failure. The emotional and social deficits are not easily "evaluated" and so she just gets pushed along another year...

I fear the things which my daughter finds scary are only going to increase each year as the peers become sassier, and more socially mature. My daughter is still afraid of the dark and being alone and someone pushing her can be quite traumatic. Currently, she is not a behavior problem because she shuts down at school. She will not participate, speak, nor acknowledge you when she becomes overwhelmed. I suppose in the long run that is better than the discipline problems but the frustration is that it allows her to fade into the background while internally she may be panic stricken.

This year in first grade we have been blessed with a very sweet, accepting class of very bright first graders. They love dd and try to include her despite her self alienation. But I know it is only time before she is taken advantage of or bullied by her peers.

I don't know if an advocate could budge this archaic school. I suppose it would be worth a consult.

You'd have to get a good one, I guess. And the school's willingness to work with you is very nice... I can't help feeling that ours is trying to keep us quiet by failing to mention things. But under the law, as of a very long time ago considering how much has been done about it, schools have been required to actively seek out and provide help for students who are having problems of any kind that prevent them from learning at the same rate as their peers... or words to that effect. The book our psychologist (a former and disgruntled advocate) keeps recommending to us is The Complete IEP Guide. It should be at a library, at least, our library has it. Then you can see it and decide about buying it. It's supposed to help parents advocate for themselves but I've been dragging my feet because I tend to go blank under pressure and don't have much confidence in my ability to come up with the right response on the spot, even with a book.

And I see what you mean about the quiet shut-down being better than the kid who acts out... but I'd rank them about even. In fact, my son, who lets you know when something's eatin' him, at least gets to blow off steam, whereas my daughter, like me, builds up a full head of steam before that last straw makes her blow, often long after the real cause of her distress is miles off and thus no one really sees what's really troubling her, and she's too upset to explain. Everyone gets it wrong when you're quiet about it, and they dump it all on you, and don't get that the trouble was external, not a willfull act of disobedience.

Sometimes I wish we didn't all have to go to school. I know that goes against the goal of having every kid receive a well-deserved education. I really don't want anyone to miss out on that. And yet there are times when I wonder how being stuck in a slot and read to for hours on end equals learning. I expect they will someday find a way to just channel it all into our brains and save their teachers the trouble of being creative and commanding respect.

This is the free advocacy program in Texas for enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act:
http://www.advocacyinc.org/index.cfm

Not in the USA. If she's diagnosed AND it affects her academic performance it's illegal to deny her an IEP. My middle son has AS and ADHD. I'm trying to get him an IEP so he can get into the social skills classes they have in middle school. He'll probably be in all Honors classes and not need any accomodations, but the quiet lunch room and social skills training would be extremely good for him. They won't do it because it's not affecting his grades. His older brother has an IEP with all sorts of accomodations (Alpha Smart word processor, quiet lunch, social skills training, parapro to take him to classes...) because it does affect his grades.

Now I've read the whole thread.

It sounds like you've got enough for an IEP, unlike my middle son. My eldest has a lot of the same kinds of issues your daughter does. I fought with the school for two years just to get him an IEP. Once that was in place it was easy to add accomodations to it. I don't know what kind of standardized testing your state has, but here we have this awful thing called the CRCT. It's used to enforce the No Child Left Behind standards. Schools that don't have enough children passing that test can be closed. They get a chance to make improvements, but if they don't do it, they are shut down. One small county lost all it's schools one year and had to ship their children to neighboring counties! I think they have 3 years to bring scores up and they didn't.

Schools that do really well earn certain rewards. Principals careers can be greatly impacted by how their schools do. There are lots of reasons this is a bad thing, but it has helped some people in a back door kind of way. The higher the scores the better the Principal and teachers look which is good for their careers. Cheating has occurred.

If you were here you'd have leverege to get an IEP based on your daughter's handwriting issues. She probably can't fill out those little test bubble things so well and that's going to bring down her scores on standardized tests. Even if she does well, she won't do as well as she could have and her school wouldn't get as much credit for her academic prowess as they could. Get an IEP for that, and then you'd have no trouble adding in the sensory stuff and so on.

I don't know if you can find an issue like that, which is clearly affecting her performance, but if you could it might be enough.

Forgive me if you've already tried that. It sounds like you've been fighting the good fight for some time.

The principal has alluded to the fact that once standardized testing becomes an issue (starts in 3rd grade here) she probably would be in need of an IEP. They are just waiting to see "how she does". It is frustrating that it works this way but I do understand their position. My problem now is do I send her to the best of the worst next year and just closely monitor her progress? I don't see any other options as long as I am going to keep her in public school.

I think perhaps I am going to go and observe the classes again and for a longer time. Perhaps I can flush out some more of the personality styles of these teachers. If I still have severe reservations I am just going to have to tell the Principal the truth, that neither of the classes are a good fit and where do we go from here? Dang these schools and their bandaid mentality! If they would support and address these students properly from the beginning of their school careers, their outcome and success would be so much better!

It's a poorly designed system. Money goes into the wrong things. Teachers are underpaid, higher level administration is overpaid, classes are too big, requirements and rules are unwisely decided.... No Child Left Behind ends up meaning no children can progress until everybody is ready to move at the same time, instead of letting each child progress at their own best rate and achieve their potential. There are many excellent people trying to make a bad system work but it's like trying to fly to the moon in a submarine. It's not happening.

Schools see lots of kids like your daughter. Some of them outgrow some/all of their issues and don't need an IEP, some don't. They probably want to put it off because it's a lot harder to get rid of an IEP once it's there than to wait and see if it's really needed. They don't want to end up having to provide costly accomodations if/when she no longer needs them.

If it's the end of the school year you may not be seeing a very typical class day either. At this point everybody is half out the door. The teachers are tired, the kids are ready for summer vacation, and things are probably wilder than they would normally be. The start of the school year is also pretty wild as kids are adjusting to being back in school and teachers are working to establish their authority and rules, especially in the younger grades.

It might be helpful to ask each teacher for advice about how to handle some difficult piece of your daughter's behavior. See who has a more thoughtful response. Lots of teachers will promise to accomodate because it's the law and they aren't going to admit to not following it. Not so many teachers will have good practical solutions for difficult situations. The teacher who knows what to do with an ASD related melt down is more likely to handle all the kids with practical creativity and might be your best bet.

Good Luck!

I would agree with others who say that getting to know the teacher rather then the class is more important. After all, if the class seems disruptive, they will be moving up to 3rd grade, so they won't be your daughter's problem. Spend some time talking with the teachers and ask them questions like how they would respond in certain situations. And try not to fret too much. It is like you can control the future by worrying enough.

Also, out of curiosity, did the book I gave you help at all?

In my state a diagnosis of any autistic spectrum disorder is, by itself, enough to get an IEP. I would review the guidelines provided at the state level and see if the same is true in your state. We needed that because my son couldn't qualify based on any of the academic guidelines (despite serious writing issues). Once it is agreed you have a right to the paper, you can fight for what you think needs to be in it (and it sounds like that will be a battle, unfortunately).

A chaotic classroom by itself isn't going to be a bad thing, but it is a worry. The best teacher at our elementary school runs a chaotic classroom, but the school keeps putting it's spectrum kids in it. Why? Because even though the disorganization causes an issue, they love this teacher. It's a good guess that the teacher is on the spectrum himself and he teaches in a way that really interests and inspires kids like my son. It was such a funny year, because my son would insist he had tuned out all day and his teacher didn't care, but he was absorbing such an incredible amount of information, and his test scores shot up. I remember another parent with an AS being very upset about the situation the first month, but when I checked in with that parent later, they were glowing ... they had never seen their child so inspired. So ... you just never know. There is more than one factor at play here with our kids. Not to say you will have the same hidden gift, but to say maybe you can look just a little harder, and talk to the teachers and parents more before you rule it out.

And .. if you get that IEP, which I suspect they are happily talking you out of but might have to give you if you get the right papers in front of them .. if things aren't going well, your child could be assigned an in-class aid, who will advocate for her needs and help keep things calm and organized for her. The aids are not usually highly trained, but most of them are very caring and tune in well to their charges, that I've observed, at least. Having an aid is a very common IEP accommodation for a spectrum child.

There have been times I've let the school lead, and other times I've thought about what they've had to offer and returned with a passionate statement on why I felt more had to be done. I recently got my mostly NT daughter into the impacted counseling program because I was lost on what to do with the morning tears, and knew, just knew, that none of the ideas and suggestions given to me were going to help. There is something deeper there and we're all clueless as to what it is. What I DO know that she is feeling really good about the counseling, and I am seeing a difference. But it took a lot of emotional disclosure from me to make that happen. When you know there is an unmet need to fill, never, never stop pushing.

Just a thought ... If you can I recommend Home schooling I home school my three children with Asperger's and other various disorders. I have a fantastic OT that comes to our home and works with as a family so that we learn to help our kids. We do out events, art class, homeschool activities group and our local autism society offers a lot of help . It's the best thing we have ever done for our kids .

Traci

Traci,

I agree homeschooling can be a wonderful thing, but the OP stated that as a single working mom she can't homeschool. She has to earn a living. It's in the last sentence of the original post, you probably just missed it.