Looking for opinion on my son before diagnosis (Aspergers?)

Post Reply New Topic

Hi-new here, I'm a father of a 4 year old son (April) and we live in Glasgow, Scotland. Tomorrow we are going to contact our GP regarding a full assessment for him.
I'm looking for opinions and advice prior to this as we are confused and see saw on what we think.

My son has always been strong willed and stubborn to do things he doesn't want, this was picked up when he was at full time nursery as a baby. Now at pre-school nursery part time he is not joining in with other kids-we have had constant dialogue with them and without getting bogged down in detail. They admit there have been gaps in them communicating the issues with us..they are pushing for a psychologist to assess him to help staff strategy. We can't get to the bottom of their stance tbh. Either they are genuinally confused about him or think he has Aspergers and are unwillingy to say (possibly they are not 100% certain.)

In terms of previous assessments they recommended he went to a speech therapist and since we saw there were other factors we asked for a Health Visitor to come and see him. She spent an hour with him (March this year) and he had a meltdown when she was in but her opinion was he was fine and had appropiate behaviour for his age albeit she stated he could be full on. Regarding his speech he has always been behind but has always progressed....the speech therapist said again his speech was fine . In normal circumstances she said she would not put him forward for a full assessment but because we were uptight and that our perceptions of him and the nursery were so different that we agreed he went for a full assessment...that is still pending.

In general terms we see big improvements in him in recent months, we can now get round his strong will by reasoning with him, he really doesn't give us problems in the house, he has adjusted well to a wee sister (nearly a year) etc etc. We are really disappointed with more bad news from the nursery. A factor in this has always been his behaviour at home and in there....since they are poles apart it is no surprise there appears to be doubts on both sides about what is being said. We saw a big breakthrough because we have managed to coach him to sit down at snack time (something he would seldom do) but they do not see this as a major improvement as he is still lacking to integrate with his peers.

Where we have concerns is in the following. His accent is quite neutral but not overtly strange I don't hear other kids as being particularly different but we are probably too close to assess. We both have quite strong Glaswegian accents but live in an area that is affluent and therefore he is not open to broader Glaswegian accents etc.
He is awkward with other kids and can play in an inappropiate fashion but we see signs of him starting to ask to play etc. There is little doubt he is a loner though often going to play on his own. Of course now with us haaving doubts about him we are screening his every move. I was not a good at integrating as a child and was taken out of nursery and I am a loner by nature however I never had any issues growing up. He will occassionaly raise his hand like he is holding a telescope and make an angled elbow posture however this is not a consistent feature.

In a positive sense his motor skills and co-ordination are good, he is starting to draw faces etc that are recognisible. He will look you in the eye and can read us fine (don't get angry daddy) and recognise facial expressions. He plays with a variety of toys normally, likes TV/Movies gets into them and moves onto the next thing. Whilst he has a routine it is not all that rigid.

We felt he was just immature in a social sense and would catch up..the nursery are constantly though pulling us back and not seeing some of the things we do.

I'd be keen to hear views on him and I hope I haven't offended anyone with my amateur understanding of the situation. If there are any other questions or details please ask and I will fill in.

Thanks.

It seems to me that you are confused, as you have every right to be, about what autism is. Autism and Asperger's Syndrome are not diseases, nor are they well defined disorders with a common cause. They are behaviorally diagnosed tendencies towards certain kinds of thinking, perception, and behavior. All people do the things that autistic people are known to do; we just do them more often. Similarly, autistic people all have instincts and thought processes about themselves and others, but they differ.

What you describe sounds like a child who has many aspects of autism, along with many aspects of neurotypical intelligence. That's great, and you should be proud of him, but it is likely to create some difficulty in his life. Sometimes I think that some lower functioning autistics seem very happy, and that they are blissfully ignorant of how other people think about them. Your boy won't ever benefit from that, and the pain that he may experience when he fails in social interactions will always shape him.

It sounds like you might be a little bit autistic yourself, which is nothing to be ashamed of. Just consider that what to you seems normal and communicative from your son might seem much strange to others who may not think like you and don't know him. The real questions you should be researching are what to do after the diagnosis. A diagnosis by itself doesn't mean or do anything. I would recommend looking into programs and teaching approaches that emphasize the strengths and abilities of autism, and not just the disability.

Seriously.

Because one of my close friends is AS, and I have many of the characteristics, I went to a psychologist to get a preliminary evaluation. She took one look at me and said, "No way. You have normal eye contact."

A child that young cannot have learned normal eye contact the way an adult with AS might be able to fake it.

Some children have ADHD, oppositional defiant disorder, and sensory motor integration processing all at once. (As do I and many of my family members, and we're all from Wales.)


It's not AS, though. The eye contact in a child is key.

Although there is a spectrum, being AS or NT is radically different.

(Any chance you're a MacDuffie?)

people differ in opinions but i can tell you my experience. my experience is similar to yours, teachers/psychologists think that my 5.5 yo boy has huge problems, neurologist think he is fine.
after 2 years that he spent in a special needs preschool class, we decided to cut all the ties with the teachers. the reason is that they have unreasonable expectations, basically they try to make him constanly alert "so he can learn" which i see is a current mantra, teach him to play and so on. it failed and made him more frustrated and confused.
we are also frustrated because we are not heard there, they just follow recipes and disregarded whatever we said (it turned out true, i.e. that he can not change alertness).
anyweay after this bitter experience, we are more cautious and now we try to estimate what approach will work early. of course i know that there are wonderful teachers and therapists out there but i am saying that if your child doesn't have a typical problem and responds to standard therapy, it takes a some "art" to find a good approach and that depends on a person more than on their training. i am frustrated that they think that they can do trying for years without much of a progress and that is ok. a child wastes precious time and a whole family is frustrated.

both my husband and i have AS traits and we think that our son got lots of it so we know somewhat how his mind works. that gives us a starting point but eventually i follow the results and try to correct just life skills i.e. what he needs for survival in life and school.

It's not AS.

I have a nephew who fits the exact things you are describing, and he is as NT as the day is long. If he can recognize faces and expressions at this age, he is NT.

Difficult, sure.

Why do you think he is AS?

Some kids are just really oppositional defiant.

Your very aware what is going on with your son which is great. My father was pretty much in denial that there was anything wrong with me. He refused to let me take medicine for my adhd and would not let them test me for any form of autism which they were pushing my father to do. He felt that a diagnosis would get me labeled as mentally ill making it hard for me to get some jobs and set me up for all types of discrimination. Not getting me treatment and a proper diagnosis has really hurt me and caused me all types of problems even in adulthood. So your doing a great job targeting your sons problems and successes but you really need to push for a proper diagnosis, It does sound like your son is very adaptable which is a great he should be able to pass as normal if he is found to have Aspergers. He sounds like his Aspegers like behavior is very mild which is great, it hopefully will not hinder his interaction with the other kids. I think a lot of my behavior at school and at home with my parents was night and day in contrasts. Around my parents and relatives I was a chatty little kid who made a lot of eye contact with them. There was some kids I had normal interaction with but these kids had been around me since we were toddlers which allowed me to be comfortable enough to be less cautious around them. Then at school where I was out of my element I was uncomfortable, nervous, withdrawn, never made eye contact and sometimes aggressive around the other kids who went out of their way to harrass me.

It sounds to me from your description like your son is fine. Socializing with other kids the same age is overrated. My opinion wouldn't change whether or not your son is diagnosed with asperger's or high functioning autism.

Your son is named April? Could the other kids be teasing him for having a "girl's name"? Edit: never mind, I guess your son was born in April.

Last edited by psychohist on 23 May 2010, 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

With all due respect to the other posters, I would like to point out the following:

1.) You have had a professional with a lot of experience tell you that, "she would not put him forth for a full examination"

If he were AS at this stage, she would not have said that. Trust the expert opinion.

2.) A child that can recognize facial expressions and faces and makes eye contact at this age does not have AS.

3.) Some children are merely speech delayed. My brother has a 156 IQ and is NT and didn't talk until he was three because it didn't suit him. When he did talk, finally, it was in complete sentences. He is very emotionally perceptive (kind of a player in his professional life, even). Speech delay and Asperger's are sometimes NOT related.

As far as the eye contact, I am not sure----my son who is almost 5 has always had good eye contact, but he exhibits just about every other sign of AS.....He was diagnosed as PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder-Non Otherwise Specified) which is on the autistic spectrum.

I will describe my son to you:

Delays in gross motor skills (didn't walk until almost 2)

Problems with fine motor tasks.

Little interest in peers. I don't think he has ever "asked" to play with any child in spite of going to school everyday since he was 3 yrs.old.

flaps his hands

Strange language patterns---echolalia (repeating what someone else says)
trouble with back and forth communication. Although with speech therapy, he is speaking much better now.

obsessive interests in certain topics (mainly car makes and models)

trouble paying attention and staying on task.

These are the main things that define my son who has been diagnosed by a doctor and by his school. They both feel he is on the spectrum, leaning more towards AS. The confusing thing about him is that he has ALWAYS had good eye contact. Oh, and my son is not real rigid about routines either.

Your son just sounds like a strong willed boy that maybe has some autistic traits. It sounds like you should go ahead with the evaluation just to ease your own mind. I would just keep working to find the right learning environment for him that is going to work for him.

I hope this helps! Good luck!

Thanks for the replies and if I wasn't clear I'm delighted with my son and wouldn't change anything about him, he is wonderful, quirky, loving and I am very proud of him...if he has AS that won't change and I know it is not a disease but a disorder sorry if that offended anyone.

We just been to the park there, he saw a younger girl (about 2) who had some toys he sat down with her and asked to play, she responded after initial shyness and they played for a few minutes...after getting a tractor and a car off of her...he then was persuaded by an older boy to give up a car and he then played with another boy for ages although he did make up a song/chant about a tractor then went on for ten minutes. He also had little chats with some nursery friends, conversations on guns and biscuits.

Today he seems very normal to me....our big problem is his behaviour in nursery and what we consider to be inference that this problem is getting worse rather than better.....it knocks our confidence and I suppose you just start to wonder/project...................

Can anyone please follow up with some info on NT? If I understand correctly.. he shows traits in the spectrum but is not actually in it...is this correct?

Is it possible that your son is just having a personality conflict with one of his teachers? It would explain the difference in his behavior between home and school, as well as the school's consistently negative assessment of his behavior -- no teacher wants to think the problem might be them. Teachers have different teaching models and strategies that may work well with most kids but occasionally cause conflict with one or two others. For instance, you state that you employ reasoning with your son to get past his resistance. A teacher with twenty-five or thirty other children will often employ an authoritarian model in the classroom, which would definitely not work with a kid with strong ideas of his own about how things should be done and who is not used to being simply chivvied along by an adult. If it's possible, see if he can be switched to another classroom with a different teacher and see what happens.

NT means a person with neurotypical brain development, which is what people that are not on the spectrum have. Some people can be mostly neurotypical, but with some autistic tendencies.

If your son is playing with others like you describe, I am not so sure he has AS, I am not sure because other kids with it, may be more high functioning in that area, but my son has never really played with any child without being prompted to do it, and then you have to stay right with him and he gets away from the activity as soon as he can!! !

Good luck!

As regards his teachers, there is a team and he deals with different ones. His main one is young and inexperienced..we do not think she is particularly good at coping with him. An example recently was when I asked him if he had a good day he admitted he wouldn't tidy up as asked by said teacher....I've always felt he has the measure of her. We are not 100% certain on what is going on and I am going to sit in this Friday with him.

He will change main teachers next term in August as he goes into his final pre-school year..they are concerned because it is more structured it will be an issue personally I'm happy because he will lose his main teacher. She has not been feeding back how often he is disruptive to us. However we are getting a universal message back he doesn't respond that differently to other teachers.

They are telling us they have exhausted different approaches but we have doubts as to how focused and consistent their approach has been...I do have doubts about what exactly is going on and I personally think a number of factors have resulted in him not having the best relationship in there..........

PsChristmas is dead on.

My nephew, who sounds like your son, recently left a day care because of the teachers. That's probably your issue, not your son.

(Nephew is much better now.)

I think it could be AS or ADHD. A psychologist would be the best person to make that kind of assessment. Neither of those diagnosis mean that your child won't do well in school or be academically gifted. AS always involves social development issues, but it's not always a problem with facial recognition though that is common. My middle son, who has AS, does really well with facial recognition, he just doesn't know what to do with the information and he's fairly immature emotionally. My eldest, also with AS, doesn't recognize facial expressions/body language but can tell one person from another. He also has sensory issues, but not the same kinds of things bother him as middle son. Neither needed speech therapy but both do odd things with their voices. Speech therapy is often very helpful to people with AS.

Eldest son plays with others, but doesn't do well with made up story lines. He more plays alongside other kids than with them. He's very affable and social. Middle son is much more stand offish.

Aspies very a lot from person to person. A psychologist can do a battery of assessments that will tell you what is going on.

My little guy didn't speak until he was 5. He's in the 99.9 percentile for academic ability. His IQ test had weird results. At one point he was dx'd as PDD-NOS but now they are saying he's not in the spectrum at all. Very smart little guys can do some strange things. I think they are so busy thinking about complex stuff they forget to work on the little things, like speech.