"I don't know what you mean by 'feel'"

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FYI - my son has NOT been diagnosed ASD but it is suspected. We have our evaluation at the end of July.

My son is 10 years old.

My son's answer to questions such as 'How do you feel?' 'How do you feel about xxx?' has always been 'I don't know'. Even simple 'How do you feel...' questions. Then I ask in a different way, he always ends up crying, seemingly out of some sort of frustration. I always thought he was just being difficult. One day I explained to him the difference between 'feel' and 'what happened' (he tells what happened, rather than how he felt) and he finally understood. He still says 'I don't know' and gets upset when I ask the questions and swears he doesn't know.

He does know feeling words such as angry, sad, happy, etc... but has hardly ever been able to apply them to himself. He has a great vocabulary. Two words he uses often to tell me about physical sensory issues (pants, shirts, etc...) are 'hurt' and 'uncomfortable'. He definately can verbalize physical feelings.

I mentioned in another post that he has extreme rages. Could this be caused by him not being able to verbalize or understand feelings?

Is it possible he doesn't feel? Or is he confused by feelings? Can he not match the feeling and the word for the feeling? I don't understand this at all and it has been very difficult in my quest to figure out what is going on with him.

I would like to know from an ASD person if you experience this and if you can explain this to me so I can understand.

Thank you.

Obiously he feels, otherwise why would he be crying? I think the issue is communicating feelings. For example in my case half a year ago I went to counselor to deal with my relationship issue. So when i was describing thigns my ex said the counselor would ask me how i feel. Now the answer to this is "angry". But instead of saying "angry" I would just describe my interpretation of what she said. Now from counselor's point of view I didn't answer how I felt, I just gave more details. But from my point of view these details were MEANT to communicate my anger. After all the reason I am angry is because of thees details. So OF COURSE I want to tell them in order to communicate just HOW angry I feel. But other people might not even understand that I am communicating anger. Some attributed completely different feelings or most just said I analyze it.

Now with other feelings like sadness I don't communicate it either. Why not? Nothing to analyze really so not much to say. Now yes I do feel it, I just don't know what is the right time to say it or the words to use.

Now if I am ASKED how I feel and lets say I feel sad. I might still say "I don't know" simply because I don't want to expose a "weakness" of feeling sad. Also, I feel on the spot since I was just asked, so it feels that whatever I answer would be important which makes me scared of saying something the other person doesn't like.

A very similar phenomenon to that is that when I go to restaurant with someone I would never make my own choice of food I would ask them what to order and pretend I don't have priorities. But when I go by myself I always know what I want. I guess I just feel that if someone watches me I would havre to justify my choicees, and since I am not sure I can, I would rather not make ones. Obviously that is far from reality no one would ask me to justify anyting, but I can't convince myself about it on subconscious level. Probably the same is true with saying how I feel: I don't want to say it unless I can prove that htat is exactly what i feel with hard core evidence. But that doesn't negate that I still feel things, I just have some block when it comes to communicating it.

^^Absolutely Concur with Roman^^


Anyone who cries and experiences uncontrollable rages obviously feels very intensely. Meltdowns often occur as a direct result of our inability to communicate our emotions, or emotion repressed out of fear of ridicule or dismissal.

When you begin to realize that your own responses and reactions to situations are not always the same as those around you, you learn to keep it to yourself. Whether its from being told repeatedly "That's no way to feel", What are you so upset about, that was nothing", "You just don't care about anybody, do you?", "Quit smiling, that was not funny", "Oh suck it up you wimp" or just "What the hell is wrong with you?" or from just observing that others don't seem to take things the same way you do, one learns to repress, to hide, to disguise the things that make us different. It becomes unconscious and automatic.

I know some here cringe at the mention of the words Rain Man, but long before I learned just what AS was, I had recognized myself in the behaviors of other Autistics I saw in the media, both real and fictional - though Dustin Hoffman's portrayal was not exactly High Functioning as the script said Raymond Babbit was, I felt his reactions were spot on - anytime he was asked a question he was not comfortable answering (like: "How do you feel about that, Raymond?") his go-to answer was "I don't know" and it has always been mine as well. And he clearly had emotions - he was terrified of flying - but was virtually incapable of expressing them until pushed to an extreme.

http://www.comet-cartoons.com/images/www/oddsandends/smileyFeelings.jpg
"What emotion do I feel? Point at the picture and pick one." It is difficult for me to do. Feelings are a why to me, rather than a what. Explaining why is really hard to do. It is even more difficult when I am confused by why.

"I don't know" is my response to such questions as well. 95% of the time I will answer with that, or simply shrug my shoulders and walk away to get away from the question.

I do feel, I feel a great deal of things. But I don't really understand what it is I'm feeling, can't put words to it sometimes. I don't know what words connect to what feelings. And just having certain feelings frazzles my brain, I'm trying my hardest not to feel something I don't understand. A feeling is a wrench that some saboteur tossed into the machinery of my mind. Feelings I don't comprehend just feel like irritating fuzziness in my thoughts.

"I don't know" can mean I'm avoiding the question because I don't want to think of an answer, or I don't know what answer is expected of me, or it can literally mean that I just plain don't know.

Ok, please bear with me as I am not very educated regarding ASD or other stuff. I am honestly trying to figure this out...

Based on what you all said, isn't this normal rather than an AS trait?

If it is not normal and is an AS trait, what differentiates it from a NT person that has the same reaction to feelings, as in our stereotype of "manly men" who don't show emotions? Or is it this in addition to all the other traits that make some one AS typical?

So, am I under a misconception by believing that AS people don't have emotions, it is only that they are really unable to communicate them?

I have been reading a lot, but I just don't "get it".

what stands out to me in your post is that he is able to verbalize physical feelings but not emotional ones. hurt and uncomfortable are not emotional feelings, they are physical sensations. but angry, sad, happy... those are the opposite, not physical sensations but emotional feelings.

so perhaps you could try ask him what he is physically feeling in his body. emotions commonly do make us feel physical sensations. anger can make us our fists clench, or our teeth grind, or our head pound. happy makes me feel bouncy, sad makes me feel heavy inside my chest. maybe the key is finding out what sensations his body is experiencing, preferrably at the time you can see he is feeling that emotion, and discussing with him what all those physical sensations add up to.

autistics or those with sensory issues can often have trouble understanding the sensory information they are receiving, or feel it differently than non-autistics. so he may just not be understanding how to interpret what he is physically feeling with those emotions, or not know how to express it in words.

ive been working with my 4 yr old for a few months on communicating anger. when he gets angry, he used to get overwhelmed by the emotions and was unable to communicate, he became all physical animal and no talking. you can see it in him, his shoulders raise, his arms stiffen at his sides, fists clench, brow furrows, and he growls. its very cute =) but i want him to be able to use words rather than physical violence to express himself. so i jokingly told him one day when he gets angry to say "you are making me angry. you wont like me when im angry" like the hulk. apparently its easier than trying to come up with his own words when hes overwhelmed, and since he tends towards echolalia, it stuck. so now when he gets mad, he goes into his stance and repeats his line. next time i will choose the phrase more wisely, but at least he is communicating when angry now =)

First, you don't seem to have the kind of trouble expressing emotions that your son has, so you know its not 'normal' or else you wouldn't have asked about it in the first place.

Second, macho men simply refuse to admit that they have feelings at all, they don't avoid discussing their feelings out of an inability to effectively communicate them.

But even so, the 'macho guy who suppresses his feelings because he fears becoming vulnerable' may be a stereotype, but even as such, its not considered 'normal' - its a stereotype of someone behaving in an emotionally unhealthy manner. I don't think any of us consider ourselves to be Clint Eastwood.



Yes, that is a HUGE misconception, but one that is often seen in media articles written by people who do not have any real knowledge of the condition and misinterpret the clinical language of the DSM.



Of course - just as poor eye contact alone does not in itself constitute Autism.

It's a problem with recognizing and communicating emotions. Same way with empathy, it's not really a lack of it-- it's just an inability to express it appropriately. I'm said to "lack empathy", but I don't think I do completely. In fact, that was apparently the main point that got me diagnosed in the first place.

Thank you for all the information. By putting the above posts together I think I get it.

Yes, I do have many misconceptions, but reading articles by people that are not ASD does not help me at all. When I read 'lacks empathy' as a symptom, I think...sociopath...someone that truly lacks empathy is a very scary person. That is what I mean when I say I don't get it...the articles I read do not match the people on this board at all.

Again, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. I am really trying to help my son.

The non ASD authors write about what they think they know about us. You are learning the new paradigm that because of communication issues, there is a lot going on inside our heads that does not show up on the outside. You went to the source, and asked so you are on the path to know more about ASD than the authors you read.

You really do get a different perspective going to the source, those who are AS themselves. There is a different understanding to what things mean, a whole new language.

I think the "lacks empathy" you read about in books is more accurately "doesn't appear to express empathy." Now, in it's more extreme forms, autism can suppress the ability to feel certain emotions such as love and empathy, but that is not the same as not having emotions, and there is a theory out there that some autistics who no longer feel certain emotions actually learned to turn them off when very young because the emotion was too intense and too confusing.

Be aware, also, that since autism tends to run in families, you may actually have lived your life around people who you didn't know were autistic (and they might not have known), all of which would distort your sense of what is within the range of normal.

Going back to the example of Rain man, imagine a sensitive and confused child being removed from his home because he couldn't control his actions or emotions, and being put into an institution at a very young age. Would that child learn to stop feeling, if he was able to? Absolutely. Life would be too painful. So, there is a chance that the old system of institutionalizing autistic children actually created the situation of suppressed emotions. When autistic children are nurtured and understood in a loving home environment, they grow up differently. Of course they do; logic tells us they should.

You are going to read a variety of confusing material, old and new, accurate and inaccurate, because the world's understanding of autism is the midst of a huge transformation. It's still a work in progress. But, when you read something that fits your child, you know it. Those are the bits of information you hold on to, because those are what is of use to you. No two autistic children are exactly alike just as no two NT (neurotypical) children are exactly alike. Some things will apply, some won't. As a parent, the label is far less important than the understanding.

My daughter did (and still does at some times) the same things and I think the responses you have received are on point. Concepts and ideas are difficult for these children and I believe this is part of the Theory of Mind deficits. There is the difficulty in determining what others "feel" based on their expressions (face blindness) and that promotes a harder time relating how they feel with the terms that are descriptive of them. I was told to have a chart with faces or symbols that represented emotions and when my daughter was expressing an emotion have her try to point it out on the chart. This did not work well at all-she was unable to point to the corresponding symbol. I was also told to "suggest" to her what she might be feeling like "you seem like you are frustrated" or "that seems to be scary to you" but this was met with resistance for a very long time. I think how I got through to her finally was when I started to name MY emotions without including her. Like, driving down the road and someone cuts me off I would say "that makes me feel angry". I spent a lot of time talking about how I felt not to her but just out loud to no one in particular. This helped a great deal in showing her certain situations create anger, others create sadness, etc. She doesn't always feel the "proper" corresponding emotion and that's ok-everyone is different. But I have noticed she will laugh when someone says something awful-like someone was hurt or if they got in trouble. I think this is just harder for these children to understand how to communicate what they are experiencing-especially when their experiences differ so much from ours. It would be like everyone telling you the sky is brown when you know it's blue and you just can't seem to get used to calling it brown even though everyone says that's what it should be called. Ok, not the best analogy but you see what I mean.

I know this is just an online forum, but you all have no idea how what you are writing can possibly change things for my child. My understanding of him is key in his development. Taking 5 minutes to write your responses to me mean so much, thanks.

My son's teacher mentioned to me that he laughs at inappropriate times and said he just didn't understand it and seemed dumbfounded by this behavior. I thought it was so odd for the teacher to say this, because it must be really inappropriate if the teacher actually called me about it. I never thought much of it though.

I suspect I have been raising an ASD child since he was an infant, as a single mother, without knowing it. I always wondered why it was so hard, why he cried when we went to the park while all the other children had so much fun, why all the other parents had play dates but my child refused to go, why he walked like a teletubby, why he had terrible tantrums - BUT he always behaved. He never did anything 'bad'. He was never mean. He always followed rules. Raising him was just always hard and I always thought there was something wrong with me - why didn't I get the same joy out of parenting that other parents did? Why didn't my son seem to enjoy things the way other kids did? Why couldn't we take the mommy and me classes without him crying to go home the whole time? Why couldn't he go play w/ the other kids when the moms got together to have coffee, like their kids did? Why did he never play with any toys? I bought him so many different types of toys...omg, SO MANY. They just sat there. Never touched.

I knew he was smart. Very smart. So I forced him to talk, because I knew he could but just didn't want to. I would sit there holding his juice in front of him, him screaming, and me saying 'Juice. Juice. This is juice. If you want juice, you have to say juice.' It took 45 minutes, but he said it. He knew his ABC's at 2.5 yrs old and was reading by 3 yrs old.

I felt like I had to teach him to do everything that came naturally to other kids. I had to teach him how to play with other kids.

I had to restrain his horrible tantrums until he was 5 yrs old. While other kids squirmed and whined or just sat there getting their hair cut, my kid ran out the door, I had to chase him, and he screamed that it hurt, like someone was cutting his head off instead of his hair. Because of his sensory issues, I dreaded buying new clothes, shoes, getting his hair cut, so he walked around looking rather rough most of the time (and still does).

I took all the blame for him being like this. I thought it was because I was single. Because he was in daycare. Because we were poor. Because I worked full time. Because his dad wasn't around. I thought it was because of me and our circumstances rather than ever considering that there might be something 'wrong'.

I always loved him. But it was just hard. I couldn't ever get mad at him because he was never 'bad' or 'evil'. He never did something to hurt anyone or destroy anything.

And now at almost 10, it is still the same but worse. I have spent the past few months MAKING him look people in the eye. MAKING him take showers. MAKING him say hello/good bye. MAKING him play with other children.

I cannot imagine the hell he has been going through with me as a mother. Constantly applying logic to illogical situations. Forcing my logic upon him. I never saw anything 'wrong' with him. I never cared what other people thought, but I didn't want him to be rude.

I am just rambling now. Feels good to finally get it out. I did what I thought was good for him.

Things just never made sense to me. I was always 100% consistent about my 'expectations' and discipline with him. I wasn't one of those moms who threatens time outs then never follows thru. No means no, 100% of the time - yet there were so many behaviors, that even after TEN years were never 'broken'.

The psychologist he started seeing last year told me everything was behavior related - even the sensory stuff. I said to him 'Doc, how is it possible that ANY child, even the most stubborn, would still try the same tactics, manipulation, if it had NEVER worked once in TEN years?' But he just continued with his theory and I followed.

ASD never ever occurred to me, even though people had brought it up to me more than once.

Sounds like you are starting to "get it". It takes a while. Understanding can come and go with every new perplexing situation. Just when you think you understand him, things will change and you'll doubt everything. But in my honest opinion, the KEY is what you just touched on: STOP making him do things that don't come naturally for him. Stop trying to make him fit in to your world. Allowing him to be who he is, solitary and quirky yet brilliant, will allow him the self confidence to grow. Too many posts on this board are from adult Aspies who have suffered horrible depression and alienation from the world. One of the major themes here is that self confidence and building their special interests is CRITICAL to their success. I hope you continue down this path of understanding and acceptance.

I feel the same way. And I did consider PDD/Asperger's - and our insurance was bought by another company and we could no longer afford to go to the psychologist therapists we were seeing at U of M (it's been hell ever since - all I can say is that the "preferred/participating" providers under our current plan SUCK!). The new psych immediately jumped to bi-polar (I have an uncle who is bi-polar) - nevermind that I also have a sister (she's 38 now) who I am SURE is autistic.

Hindsight is always 20/20 - the if only's will haunt you if you let them - and you hit it on the head when you said "I did what I thought was best for him" - and you're still doing that by continuing to search for an answer.