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flyingrhubarb
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24 Jun 2010, 8:12 am

My daughter is 13, and has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers. She is finding life at school very difficult. She is mocked and bullied by the other children. They think she is weird. She seemed to have found a group of friends who accepted her for the person she is, but I have recently discovered that they are mocking her too, and spoiling her things. She feels that everyone at school despises her. The stress of it all became too much for her, and she acted aggressively towards one of her friends. Nothing serious, but I know that when she goes back to school the bullying will only intensify because of this incident. The special needs teacher thinks that he should tell her 'friends' (her inverted commas) that she has Aspergers, and explain to them what that means, and that they will then make allowances for her and treat her more kindly. I feel under pressure to allow him to do this. But my daughter is very reluctant to take this step. She can't see why it would improve things, and, as she says, once it is done it can't be undone.
Please can anyone who has been in a similar situation, either as a parent of a teen with Aspergers, or as someone who themselves has Aspergers, share their thoughts? It seems to me that this has to be her decision not anyone else's. I was bullied and ostracised as a child myself, so I am well aware how damaging it is, and I am feeling quite desperate that I've not been able to find a way to protect her.



LostAlien
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24 Jun 2010, 9:05 am

I was in regular schooling. I had the experience of people telling when I wanted it to be kept quiet, for me it was terrible. What little respect I was shown for my intelligence dissipated overnight and when I passed other students, they mimed someone seriously intellectually disabled to mock me (I can't properly discribe it) and called me a ret*d. At least if it were a physical attack I could have fought back.

It may not be as bad now but it could be worse. Your daughter is probably the best judge on what should happen here because she knows these children. Also, she's right, once said it can't be unsaid and she'd have to live with the results until she was in a new place.

Perhaps martial arts is a good way to protect her, not for the self defence aspect though. When a person learns a martial art their body posture changes, this change can discourage some bullies because the stance is a more confident one and give her back some confidence. It's also good excersize. Although, just thinking about it, a small class would be probably best so that the instructor can properly observe the interactions.

Good martial arts are Tai Chi, Tae Kuan Do (modern style/mixed not traditional style alone) and Jujutsu (my Mum said Jujutsu was a good one, the other two I've tried myself).

Hope this helps.



flyingrhubarb
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24 Jun 2010, 9:53 am

Thanks for that idea, I wouldn't have thought of that. She has an unusual walk, especially when she's in a socially stressful situation, a little tilted forward, sort of wrapping herself up in herself, and that is one of the things they mock. Perhaps learning a martial art would help her as you suggest.
I can visualise the mockery you endured and imagine it happening to her, that would be horrible. Thank you for the warning. I think the special needs teacher is a good bloke but I think maybe he has an overly optimistic view of human behaviour having not endured bullying himself.



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24 Jun 2010, 10:24 am

I don't think he ought to tell them.

In the first place, it's hers to tell, and she ought to be allowed to tell it in her own time and her own way. If she wants help - from him, from you, or from anyone - she should be welcome to ask for it (or have it offered, but not insisted upon), but she shouldn't have to have it told until it's exactly the time, place and way she wants it told. If at all.

But more importantly, the way you describe her "friends" (they mock her, they spoil her things, and they don't even know about her diagnosis yet!) doesn't seem to be conducive to education about Asperger's. It seems to me like this would just give them one more thing to mock, or perhaps just a way to solidify all of their current insults. Somehow, I can't see telling them she has a diagnosis - a definable difference, rather than just what they see themselves - as an improvement. If I were in her place, I would agree with her; the risk of making things worse seems far greater than the possibility of making them better.



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24 Jun 2010, 11:36 am

This is only my opinion and I don't have a child in high school but I feel it might be beneficial to tell them not that she has AS, but about AS in general. I feel there is push these days to recognize AS not as a disability per se but just as a different "way of being". If the "Special Needs" teacher (which, by the way, I don't feel that's a good label for him because it infers lack of abilities) approaches the subject in a way that promotes acceptance of differences it would be beneficial. Sounds like your school might need some student training on this subject. There is a big push here to combat bullying from the very earliest grades and part of that is to teach acceptance and tolerance of those who act, dress, and think differently. They need to discuss your daughter's differences in a way that focuses on strengths as well as the weaknesses in a universal way that doesn't single her out. Much like other segments of society that were thought of as "different" and forced them to hide their true selves, there needs to come a time where disclosure is respected and the information helps combat the misinformation that is out there that causes others to judge your daughter falsely. You can't make the other kids like her but an explanation that replaces the word "weird" would help. AS is a different neurological wiring that is not inferior and any bullying should be addressed aggressively. Talk to your daughter about AS in a way that promotes self esteem. Get her the book "Genious Genes". Try to address any feelings of inadequacy in her head on. Try to teach her not to be ashamed of her AS.



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24 Jun 2010, 11:36 am

I, too, am against the teacher explaining it to the kids. While I tend to favor the other kids knowing, it is your daughter's place to decide if and when she wants to share, and not the teacher's. At this age, anything that can be seen as adults stepping in for your daughter will make her social life worse. She has to stand on her own with the kids; the years for education of tolerance and diversity by an adult are passed (elementary school is the time for that).

If there is any way you can do it, I would suggest homeschooling. It sounds like she needs a little sheltering so that she can regroup, gain strength, and learn to fly. Many AS kids end up home schooled in high school.


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24 Jun 2010, 3:38 pm

flyingrhubarb wrote:
Thanks for that idea, I wouldn't have thought of that. She has an unusual walk, especially when she's in a socially stressful situation, a little tilted forward, sort of wrapping herself up in herself, and that is one of the things they mock. Perhaps learning a martial art would help her as you suggest.
I can visualise the mockery you endured and imagine it happening to her, that would be horrible. Thank you for the warning. I think the special needs teacher is a good bloke but I think maybe he has an overly optimistic view of human behaviour having not endured bullying himself.


It was hard but I had people who loved me and that got me through it (my logic was that I was worth something because they loved me). Knowing that you are loved can really help a person through all sorts of things.

About the martial art, it did help me walk better and in a more usual manner. I'm still a mite clumsy but it helped. Still, it's your daughters choice, she may not want to do it.



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24 Jun 2010, 10:25 pm

I'm usually a proponent for talking to others about our Autism, but this is different. They're just kids. They aren't going to understand. Heck there are enough adults who just don't get it even after i explain it. Some of them are professionals in psychology!

Children at that age just aren't equipped to understand things like this well enough, unless it's something plainly obvious like Downs Syndrome. If your child appears normal, for the most part, no explanation will suffice. They're more likely to assume things like, "Oh! So it's all in her head," (or "mind") and assume all manner of stereotypes they've absorbed from TV and/or movies. If anything, it's probably going to complicate things rather than make them any better.

I wouldn't have him tell the kids. i don't encourage my kids to tell anyone without checking with us first, and only if we can have the other kids come here so we can monitor the discussions.

I can just hear the playground taunting now:

"Asssssspie! Asssspie! Shes an ASSSSSpie!" :roll:

I don't trust the school staff to make sure that kind of crap won't happen. Kids are too devious, and will only do it if no one is watching. Then, once the Autistic child is pushed to their limit, they lash out, and THEY get in trouble for what the other brats started.

My kids have been lucky so far. They're in 6, 7th, and 8th grade now. They tell me they've never been bullied, or at least not for a long time now. None of the other kids know about their Asperger's. They're all on IEP's, and get lots of individualized assistance. That can't go unnoticed by the other students, but they don't know why the assistance is there, and as things are going quite well, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! I don't see any benefit at all to the other kid's knowing.

As far as the mocking and whatnot the other kids are doing:

The school needs to start doing their job educating those kids. Education is much more than the three R's. It's about learning to be just and fair adults. Our district has programs to teach kids about their differences, and to be tolerant of them. They teach the kids about bullying. How to identify it. What is, and what is not bullying. Taunting is bullying, and isn't tolerated in our kid's schools, thank goodness. Sounds like your school could use a lesson from ours.


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24 Jun 2010, 11:21 pm

flyingrhubarb wrote:
My daughter is 13, and has recently been diagnosed with Aspergers. She is finding life at school very difficult. She is mocked and bullied by the other children. They think she is weird. She seemed to have found a group of friends who accepted her for the person she is, but I have recently discovered that they are mocking her too, and spoiling her things. She feels that everyone at school despises her. The stress of it all became too much for her, and she acted aggressively towards one of her friends. Nothing serious, but I know that when she goes back to school the bullying will only intensify because of this incident. The special needs teacher thinks that he should tell her 'friends' (her inverted commas) that she has Aspergers, and explain to them what that means, and that they will then make allowances for her and treat her more kindly. I feel under pressure to allow him to do this. But my daughter is very reluctant to take this step. She can't see why it would improve things, and, as she says, once it is done it can't be undone.
Please can anyone who has been in a similar situation, either as a parent of a teen with Aspergers, or as someone who themselves has Aspergers, share their thoughts? It seems to me that this has to be her decision not anyone else's. I was bullied and ostracised as a child myself, so I am well aware how damaging it is, and I am feeling quite desperate that I've not been able to find a way to protect her.


DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT try and make a bunch of bitchy 13 year old girls try and understand or accept what aspergers is. Whoever gave you this advice is WRONG, I can still relate to kids behaviour because I still feel like one.

At that age all that will do is make her seem like more of a freak and they likely will either abandon her completely or bully her worse. She needs to stay away from these people, and not mention to any kids about aspergers until they are at least 18 or older (however long it takes them to grow up)

Children do not and WILL not understand because they are immature. A teacher telling them is egging the situation on. They may be polite in front of the teacher but behind closed doors will be hell.

I hope this already hasn't been done.

Also you haven't said what this spoiling or ridiculing is. From varying degrees, all teenage girls are nasty and bitchy so its likely to happen regardless. The girl who is now my best friend did horrirble things to me in school at that age.



Last edited by hale_bopp on 24 Jun 2010, 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrXxx
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24 Jun 2010, 11:24 pm

Yeah. What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^


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25 Jun 2010, 12:33 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
the years for education of tolerance and diversity by an adult are passed (elementary school is the time for that).


So true. At this age lecturing is at best useless, at worst counterproductive.

Telling them about AS is in their minds merely going to certify that she is 'strange.'

Martial arts sound good to me.


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26 Jun 2010, 3:03 am

hale_bopp wrote:
DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT try and make a bunch of bitchy 13 year old girls try and understand or accept what aspergers is. Whoever gave you this advice is WRONG, I can still relate to kids behaviour because I still feel like one.

At that age all that will do is make her seem like more of a freak and they likely will either abandon her completely or bully her worse. She needs to stay away from these people, and not mention to any kids about aspergers until they are at least 18 or older (however long it takes them to grow up)

Children do not and WILL not understand because they are immature. A teacher telling them is egging the situation on. They may be polite in front of the teacher but behind closed doors will be hell.

I hope this already hasn't been done.

Also you haven't said what this spoiling or ridiculing is. From varying degrees, all teenage girls are nasty and bitchy so its likely to happen regardless. The girl who is now my best friend did horrirble things to me in school at that age.

+1000

I guarded my medical information fiercely in middle and high school. Since kids didn't know anything about me to pick on me for, they just made up rumors. At least the rumors weren't believed to be gospel truth and used against me as much as real information would have. She is at an age where it won't be safe to tell her peers until she as at least 20.


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flyingrhubarb
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26 Jun 2010, 3:03 am

Thanks for all your replies. You've confirmed my instincts that it could make things even worse. The trouble is, I haven't much in the way of ideas to suggest to the school as alternative strategies, because certainly something needs to be done. We've tried before to get them to improve their education and policies with regard to bullying (as my son, who is also AS, also had a lot of problems) but to no avail, the head teacher basically told us the school is wonderful and doing everything exactly right already.

All I can think of asking them to do is to give my daughter a bolt hole, somewhere to retreat to when it gets too much. The school has a library of course, but it seems to be always shut, and even when open, the children are not allowed in there just to sit and read (! !!). So I thought I could ask that they designate a room as a reading room at break and lunch times, for quiet reading. After all, in a school of 2000 children there must be others who need to get away and find some peace and quiet. There used to be a lunch club for children who needed some additional support, and that was what saved the whole experience for my son, but that seems to have shut too, so I could ask about that too.

As regards home educating .... I've got this in the back of my mind, but am thinking of it as a last resort. There have been times in the past when she has enjoyed school, and her friendships have seemed to be working fine ... I really really don't want her to lose all prospect of that happening again, and be stuck home with her mum. Educationally it'd be fine, difficult but we'd manage it, but it'd be such a shame.

She's going through a (long) stage of not wanting to go out at all, or only rarely and not for long .... I reckon this is Aspergers combining with adolescence.... she feels very awkward in her body and super-self-conscious I think.... so I doubt she'll be keen on the martial arts idea, but I will suggest it and see.

Special needs: that's the term used in schools here (England) for all individuals who have needs beyond the average, not my choice of terminology.

Thanks again for all the replies.



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26 Jun 2010, 3:08 am

flyingrhubarb wrote:
All I can think of asking them to do is to give my daughter a bolt hole, somewhere to retreat to when it gets too much. The school has a library of course, but it seems to be always shut, and even when open, the children are not allowed in there just to sit and read (! !!).

Dang, WTF is the point in even having a library then? :roll: A "bolt hole" is what I did in middle and high school. I was usually either in the band room, the library, a cool teacher's classroom that didn't mind me hanging out there, or in high school I'd hide out in the off limits areas where it was quiet and I was alone.


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flyingrhubarb
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26 Jun 2010, 7:18 am

I know, it's dire isn't it? The librarian left, they got a new one, and the new one couldn't cope with children misbehaving in the library, so instead of just ordering out anyone who misbehaved, he decided that children could only enter the library to get out books, but must not stay to read them. And now the kids say it is 'never open' at all. My lassie hasn't quite ever plucked the courage up to actually get a book out, but she liked to go there and browse and read.

So, I am going to put my thoughts about all this in a letter to the teacher. I am better at letters than face to face. Will follow it up with a face to face meeting when my husband gets back from his work trip, feel braver with the two of us there. I will make these points:
i) We do not think it is a good idea for him to inform her friends of her Asperger's diagnosis, and don't give him permission to do so, and won't try to persuade my daughter that he should be allowed to do so, because we fear that could seriously backfire. I'll tell him I've sought the opinion of other AS people and parents on this, so that he knows it isn't just us being stubborn.
ii) I will raise (yet again...) the issue that the school needs to be encouraging more acceptance of diversity, in fact encouraging the celebration of diversity in all its many forms, rather than implicitly taking the attitude that it is just natural for kids to pick on anyone who is different.
I don't expect any progress on that though, to be honest, we've tried often enough before. They'll just say they already do it, and point to an anti-bullying poster ...
iii) Ask that a reading room is available, at all break times and lunch times, for all children who wish to silently read.
iv) Ask if they could provide other bolt holes... I'm wondering if they might let her have a place that only she was allowed to go, somewhere generally off limits, as you describe John Browning. Though she might find that hard to use, she's extremely law-abiding, so it might be hard for her to go somewhere off limits, even if permitted. I'll have a talk with her about that idea.

Any other specific suggestions I could make to this teacher?



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26 Jun 2010, 8:14 am

I agree with NOT telling the other kids about your daughters AS. A general chat not mentioning your daughter at all would be better IMO.

The special needs teacher needs to sort out the library. Maybe make it limited access.

But ideally the library wouldn't be completely silent as if it is well managed it is a good place to find real friends.

No library and no lunch club means that they are just failing the kids and have their heads in the sand.

Maybe the NAS will have ideas and maybe contact the school with you. We had sessions with a family guidance councilor. She volunteered to attend school meetings with us to help press our case.


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