Seems "normal"?

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Hi All -

This question is for anyone who is further on this path than I. So, that means everyone, NT parents and anyone AS (your perspective is more important, you may have lived it).

My son appears NT ......until he doesn't. HA - what I mean by this is that there is no obvious sign of difference. Until he becomes anxious and non-responsive, starts rocking or has a melt down. He drives people a little nuts with his special interests, but the topics are pretty typical for his age (wrestling, video games)- so not really an attention getter.

So for him, he is just thought of as the weird fat kid. He cares very much about being accepted and this is crushing. He wants to have playovers, but no one wants to play with him anymore. He has gained a lot of weight due to the meds that he takes to control the meltdowns. We are working his way off of them, but they aren't gone yet. And the weight hasn't gone. Kids aren't so accepting.

How do you manage this on a social level? He is unwilling to accept that some of his sensory issues have consequences. (for instance, when he smells and doesn't want to shower, kids say he stinks. He gets mad at the kids and refuses to see bathing as the solution no matter how I explain it)

I think that the resulting frustration, isolation and anxiety contribute to making this worse. To me it seems that we are in a vicious cycle.

There is still debate if he is actually AS because he makes eye contact just fine and can have a reciprocal conversation. (that said, he doesn't care what you are saying unless it has to do with his interest). The neuro psych says he's not AS because of these issues, the Pdoc who is AS and the Ped Neurologist say he is AS, just doesn't fit the box exactly.

Do I try to get him involved with activities with AS kids? We live in a pretty backwards suburb - so not great resources. Do I work with DS on the NT activites? If so, how?

Sometimes my son seems perfectly normal, too. But, that happens less often as he gets older; the AS seems more obvious as time goes by, and the start of adolescence was a huge one for separating him from the pack.

I'm surprised your nuero psych would discard AS so quickly; my son has always, ALWAYS made eye contact just fine, and is highly social, yet everyone agrees AS fits to a T. The difference can be subtle, especially since these are bright kids who learn to copy what the people around them do, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

As for your question at the end, I'm not sure how successful it will be to get your son involved "in" NT activities, although maybe he can learn to appreciate them for the sake of being with friends. My son is friends with a boy who is a super athlete and, well, nothing is going to change the fact that my son just can't play at that level. In fifth grade, however, my son got a kick out of becoming the commentator for lunch time football. Currently we don't have anything like that, and the two boys only spend time together at church outings, but such is life. You can't force the athlete to like RPG's, and you can't force the RPG kid to enjoy spending hours court side. But, maybe, both kids like to hike, and can connect every so often through that activity.

Fifth grade was a great time socially for my son because his game designing hobby was at it's height, and a lot of kids really liked the games he was inventing and introducing to them. In the smaller social environment of an elementary school, that gift was able to shine. Middle school is different, however, because there are too many kids and not much venue for allowing that skill to be seen. Still, kids who went to elementary school with him by and large see him as a kid who has unusual and surprising gifts, and will stick up for him.

Basically, if your son has a talent or interest that can really set him apart, and that other kids might find "cool," it can become a great rope to hang onto. If there is anything in that direction you can pursue, I strongly recommend it. It will build confidence in your son and give him some standing among the kids. He may still be standing off to the side, but off to the side is far better than below. Other than that, help him find the tangential ways to enjoy the popular activities, and develop interests that are likely to cross more social lines. But trying to make him something he's not - just doesn't work and has a good chance of backfiring, so avoid that.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 31 Jul 2010, 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

^^Yuppers.^^


I learned very early in life how to fool people into not noticing my poor eye contact - Look, then look away. Nod, or vocalize to acknowledge that you're listening, then glance up and away again. Alternate at irregular intervals and people hardly notice that you spend 90% of any conversation looking anywhere but at the person you're talking to. Works great even in groups. I actually spend more conversational time staring at the floor, or a point beyond the other person's left shoulder. That's also when the ol' 'back and forth on the balls of the feet' stim kicks in.

Eye contact is also much less uncomfortable with people I like and am on good terms with, so family generally witness less poor eye contact than strangers or outsiders do.

As for showering, perhaps try giving him a little time with his special interest and then taking it away until he showers and let him know that he will then get it right back. Keep him reporting on what the bullying is like during that time and see if you can show him that the bullying got better after he started taking more showers.

As for not caring about conversations about his special interest, it's not so important that he likes the conversation as that he does what he needs to do to be functional in life. For example: in the volunteer work I do I work with a lower functioning kid that is reclusive. Right now we are working on doing at least one group activity a day. For now, it is candyland and then he goes back to solo activities. I'm not sure what kinds of things that you tell your son that he doesn't care about, but using small rewards and keeping a chart where he eventually gets a bigger reward might help.

The neuropsych sounds ignorant as to what constitutes AS.

The DSM-IV criteria says...

A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least TWO of the following:



(1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction


(2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level


(3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)


(4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

It does not say FAILURE to make eye contact. It implies an impairment in eye contact, and it does not require an impairment in eye contact to be present at all as long as some of the traits from at least two categories are met.

It also does not require an inability to hold a conversation. Many children with AS might converse very fluidly with adults and it's been noted that many with AS have a high verbal IQ.

I suggest you take the criteria to his office next time and ask him to explain, based on the criteria, how your son does not have AS.

My 8yr old ADHD Aspie daughter does appear normal in many ways. On interacting with people who don't know her many people comment on her intelligence and sweet nature but I can tell they are trying to place their finger on what is "different" about her. I find it funny. She's her own little person living in her own little world. I also find people who don't know her find it hard to believe the tantrums she is capable of having behind closed doors. Socially, she does kinda okay. She loves to interract with people but finds it hard to keep friends. At the daycare I have her at this summer while she's with me she has a couple of girls she plays with and complains that others, mainly boys, cover their ears and run away when she tries to talk to them. I try to teach her social skills as the opportunities arise but it's not always easy. I'd like to teach her certain skills/tools, but then I don't want to be forcing her to be someone she is not. Sometimes all you can do is try and offer them advice on things that could be used to their advantage and let them decide if they want to use it or not.

My daughter has pretty decent eye contact and is able to hold conversations with adults but not always very good with children her age. One problem I see is she has problems with theory of mind and will skip around different subjects without an intro into them and it confuses other kids. She does okay talking to other kids when she is trying to play with them, especially if they are open to following her ideas for a game, but, as far as chitchat goes, she has difficulty.

For the bathing issue - does he respond well to star charts? So many stars equal a certain reward that could be related to one of his special interests, etc My daughter responds well to extrinsic motivation.

Yes, my son also has a clear AS diagnosis but makes eye contact just fine, and has plenty of reciprocal conversations. From your description, your son sounds clearly AS as well, especially if the only 'maybe' factors are eye contact and conversing - which should not be considered as deal breakers in a diagnosis. Be careful of the experts you encounter in your son's journey - you may frequently have to push for better quality care.

What sort of strategies did you use for the meltdowns prior to the meds? I personally am a big proponent of exhausting all other options before turning to hard core meds, because of the type of significant side effect you mention. I think it's wise that you are weaning him off, but do you have strategies in place for how to handle/avoid the meltdowns?

My son also does not enjoy bathing and many AS kids are this way... does he prefer baths?

Thanks for the replies!

I think he "qualifies" AS based on points #2 & 4. He does not have age appropriate peer relationships, nor has he ever. He does not get emotional reciprocity at all. He doesn't care how you feel, and mostly doesn't know how he feels. I believe that the neuro psych doesnt see "enough" rocking and she thinks that he can be talked off of whatever his interest is at the moment.

She actually specialized in ASD, so I find it really odd.

He doesn't actually get bullied because of his grooming, he gets ignored &/or shunned. I don't know that he is aware of being shunned but he is aware that no one will play with him. He sometimes prefers baths but (sorry if tmi) he often needs a shower as he shouldn't be soaking in what needs to get off of him. I have been successful in getting him to sponge bath sometimes when he is refusing a shower

He is not motivated by charts/rewards or anything when it comes to something he feels strongly about. However, he will have a big old meltdown to avoid doing what he doesn't want to do.

Meds.... This is so tricky! We started the meds when he was in 2nd grade and trying to jump out of our 2nd story window. He didn't really have a dx at the time, but the level of his distress was so extreme that meds were warranted. Well, that was 2 years ago and 45#s ago. We now have a dx. I think that some of the meds we have tried have caused cognitive dulling which causes him to meltdown more. SO - the ped neurologist is weaning him down of the Abilify and adding some Lamictal. So far, this seems like a better combo. We have decreased the Abilify by 1/3 and he has had fewer meltdowns. So I am encouraged.

So yesterday as I was asking the question about social stuff - I got a call with the soccer team assignment. It is a different coach than last year. He's like - no way, not doing it! I was actually worried about soccer this year because of the weight gain, running is beyond hard for him. I don't think he would be very good and I thought it would cause greater problems with the socail frustration. So I am sad, but think that I will honor his loud no, and let it go.

Thanks everyone.

He sounds more bipolar to me...

I know my son is all about soccer but I've been hesitant to allow it because I can predict major issue with other kids bumping him or taking the ball from him, and him not understanding or being able to process that this is all part of the game.

That being said... can I ask why the coach said "no way"? I would have serious issues with a coach turning a special needs child down for soccer - is this school or community club team?

Sorry, I must have written that poorly - It was my child that said "no way". The idea of a new coach is intolerable.

Bipolar fits sometimes too - however, he never has a reduced need for sleep or pressured speech.

My son played soccer from age 6 through 11 and it was a really positive experience. Quite a few bumps, of course, but they ultimately turned into important lessons and part of his growth. Talk to your local league, see what the coaches are like, etc. It might work out. I really miss it, actually, as does my son, but it was getting too competitive to continue and everyone all around agreed it was time for him to "retire." He got to go out on a great season, though

Sounds very AS to me - my son was always particular about his coaches.