Spacing out in School - IEP Accomodations?
DenvrDave
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Age: 61
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Greetings, I recently learned that "spacing out" is a relatively common symptom of those with AS, for example see the following discussion: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf108319-0-30.html
After asking my son about this, it turns out he spaces out something like 20 times a day, and I believe this may be a major reason why he struggles in school: disorganized, doesn't get work done, doesn't write down assignments, etc. He would rather not space out, and isn't very certain about causes (i.e., diet, fatigue), and says he can't control it. Call me naive, but I never knew this was a common symptom, and I certainly never knew how severely this has affected him until I read about this on the other discussion.
My questions for Aspies and parents of Aspies are:
Do you or your children space out and, if so, how often and how severe is it in terms of accomplishing tasks?
Do you have any suggestions for coping skills? How do you cope with this? Can you force yourself to focus when you have to?
What types of IEP accomodations could be used to address "spacing out" in school?
Is there a better phrase for this symptom other than "spacing out"?
Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks, DD
Do you or your children space out and, if so, how often and how severe is it in terms of accomplishing tasks?
My 10 year old PDD/AS of some kind son recently started spacing-out.
It has been casting an unprecedented blanket of forgetfulness over chunks of his life. He says he can't think actively/independently or creatively/constructively when in that state; he hears/sees/understands very little of what is going on, and is only capable of "functioning" as a sort of sleepwalking zombie robot, mechanically carrying out those instructions which require no thought at all ( and remembering nothing of what he did in that state ).
I don't know what an IEP is, but the accommodation that we have made is to go back to what we were doing the last four years; home-unschooling, as of yesterday.
Three and a half weeks of school was quite long enough. We ( that is mainly me and my son; his father isn't there half the time, and also isn't very good at discussing ), saw, noted, and discussed the symptoms it induced, and have decided ( after several painful dithers ), that the two things which my son appreciated ( gym and breaktimes ), were not worth all the spacing-out, hours lost, boredom, frustration/misery, etc.
Luckily he had already made a friend, who also goes to the new chess club with him, and with whom he has twice "visited", ( here and at their house ).
The reaction of a highly sensitive/intelligent person to : sustained and repeated periods of unavoidable non-stimulation, ( ( in its mild form known as bordeom ), and/or repeated/frequent and unavoidable exposure to, and enforced participation in, perpetual non-sense/pointlessness maybe?
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I use the word "unprecedented" because it is; my son has no trouble spending hours at a stretch reading a book, drawing a diagram/plan/picture of some sort, playing a computer game, writing intricate rules for a game he has invented, etc. He has no trouble remembering what he has read, drawn, written, or played either. But school was stupefying.
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"Spacing out" is a big and common problem. My son probably spaces out MOST of the day at school. I can see him doing it during homework. He definitely would prefer to NOT do it, as he is really trying to be responsible and get things done. But I am under the impression that this is one of those things for people on the spectrum that can't be helped.
The one thing I DO know is that the "spacing out" does not happen whenever they are doing something that they are interested in. My son likes foreign languages. He is a good student in every other class, but in every other class we often have to RETEACH the subject when he gets home because he has spaced out through most of the class. But with German, we don't have to do ANYTHING. He pays attention, gets homework accomplished quickly and on time, and gets straight A's without studying. He is not like that with ANY OTHER CLASS. For instance, he is really pretty good at math, but that's not an interest of his. He obviously doesn't pay attention in class, because he never really knows exactly how he's supposed to do the homework. We have to reteach whatever he has done in math in order for him to accomplish his homework.
I really have no idea what could be written into an IEP to help with spacing out. When our son was younger, we suggested that a teacher tap his table, which was something that seemed to get him back on track, but he's now in 8th grade, and I'm fairly sure that wouldn't work so well anymore.
That is because things that he finds interesting are easy to pay attention to. School, is not interesting. Children dont learn sitting in desks listening to hour long lectures. Its just not the way our brains are wired. It is however, the cheapest and easiest way to pretend to teach children, so that their parents think that they are getting a good education. Thus explaining the popularity of this method.
As for advice in zoning out. I am afraid I dont have much to tell you. I zoned out in the majority of my classes, only paying attention to math and science. That's why I happened to become an engineer. If I knew some way to keep from zoning out, I would tell you. But I haven't figured it out myself yet.
A lot of children on the spectrum also may have ADD/ADHD to go along with it. My son was dx'd with ADD after his ASD dx. I am not saying yours does, but that is what i have read and that is our experience. We have tried accommodations...the teacher tapping on the desk or putting her hand on his shoulder. We have tried sitting him near the teacher's desk and also by a positive roll model, one that is always doing their work. This became a problem when the "role model" would tell him to get to work. Sooo....we took the meds aproach. I know many would not do that, but we did and we were lucky enough to find that he did well on the first med we tried with no side effects. Last year after having taken the meds, he pulled several grades up and made honor roll. He was always in his own world and had trouble concentrating, finishing his classwork up, etc. This made him have lots of homework and so the tantrums started. HE was clearly overwhelmed by the amount he brought home. He even had a hard time oragnizing his thoughts onto paper (written expression) and has had this problem for years (and one of the main reasons why we got him evaluated in the first place). He has had help from the resource teacher one on one and still nothing. Since taking the meds, the resource room was dropped from his IEP and he has done incredible. This is just our experience though and our choice to use meds after unsuccessfully trying to get him to focus and complete assignments.
Also, i have heard having the child chew gum, having a fidget toy or even weighted lap blanket may help in class and having an aide may help as an accommodation. I learned these after he started meds.
Good luck!
Here is a page from the archives of "The Memory Hole" about public education, based on John Taylor Gatto's brilliant research into schooling; "An Underground History of American Schooling" available free online at http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/ and his other, much shorter, and very enlightening book "Dumbing Us Down":
It's no secret that the US educational system doesn't do a very good job. Like clockwork, studies show that America's schoolkids lag behind their peers in pretty much every industrialized nation. We hear shocking statistics about the percentage of high-school seniors who can't find the US on an unmarked map of the world or who don't know who Abraham Lincoln was.
Fingers are pointed at various aspects of the schooling system—overcrowded classrooms, lack of funding, teachers who can't pass competency exams in their fields, etc. But these are just secondary problems. Even if they were cleared up, schools would still suck. Why? Because they were designed to.
How can I make such a bold statement? How do I know why America's public school system was designed the way it was (age-segregated, six to eight 50-minute classes in a row announced by Pavlovian bells, emphasis on rote memorization, lorded over by unquestionable authority figures, etc.)? Because the men who designed, funded, and implemented America's formal educational system in the late 1800s and early 1900s wrote about what they were doing.
Almost all of these books, articles, and reports are out of print and hard to obtain. Luckily for us, John Taylor Gatto tracked them down. Gatto was voted the New York City Teacher of the Year three times and the New York State Teacher of the Year in 1991. But he became disillusioned with schools—the way they enforce conformity, the way they kill the natural creativity, inquisitiveness, and love of learning that every little child has at the beginning. So he began to dig into terra incognita, the roots of America's educational system.
In 1888, the Senate Committee on Education was getting jittery about the localized, non-standardized, non-mandatory form of education that was actually teaching children to read at advanced levels, to comprehend history, and, egads, to think for themselves. The committee's report stated, "We believe that education is one of the principal causes of discontent of late years manifesting itself among the laboring classes."
By the turn of the century, America's new educrats were pushing a new form of schooling with a new mission (and it wasn't to teach). The famous philosopher and educator John Dewey wrote in 1897:
"Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper social order and the securing of the right social growth".
In his 1905 dissertation for Columbia Teachers College, Elwood Cubberly—the future Dean of Education at Stanford—wrote that schools should be factories "in which raw products, children, are to be shaped and formed into finished products...manufactured like nails, and the specifications for manufacturing will come from government and industry."
The next year, the Rockefeller Education Board—which funded the creation of numerous public schools—issued a statement which read in part:
"In our dreams...people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions [intellectual and character education] fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, educators, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians, nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is very simple...we will organize children...and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way".
At the same time, William Torrey Harris, US Commissioner of Education from 1889 to 1906, wrote:
"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual".
In that same book, The Philosophy of Education, Harris also revealed:
"The great purpose of school can be realized better in dark, airless, ugly places.... It is to master the physical self, to transcend the beauty of nature. School should develop the power to withdraw from the external world".
Several years later, President Woodrow Wilson would echo these sentiments in a speech to businessmen:
"We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks".
Writes Gatto: "Another major architect of standardized testing, H.H. Goddard, said in his book Human Efficiency (1920) that government schooling was about 'the perfect organization of the hive.'"
While President of Harvard from 1933 to 1953, James Bryant Conant wrote that the change to a forced, rigid, potential-destroying educational system had been demanded by "certain industrialists and the innovative who were altering the nature of the industrial process."
In other words, the captains of industry and government explicitly wanted an educational system that would maintain social order by teaching us just enough to get by but not enough so that we could think for ourselves, question the sociopolitical order, or communicate articulately. We were to become good worker-drones, with a razor-thin slice of the population—mainly the children of the captains of industry and government—to rise to the level where they could continue running things.
This was the openly admitted blueprint for the public schooling system, a blueprint which remains unchanged to this day. Although the true reasons behind it aren't often publicly expressed, they're apparently still known within education circles. Clinical psychologist Bruce E. Levine wrote in 2001:
I once consulted with a teacher of an extremely bright eight-year-old boy labeled with oppositional defiant disorder. I suggested that perhaps the boy didn't have a disease, but was just bored. His teacher, a pleasant woman, agreed with me. However, she added, "They told us at the state conference that our job is to get them ready for the work world…that the children have to get used to not being stimulated all the time or they will lose their jobs in the real world."
And here is a particularly moving poem by a high-school student, and an account by the mother of a boy diagnosed as ADHD, from Gatto's site:
Barbara Whiteside showed me a poem written by a high school senior in Alton, Illinois, two weeks before he committed suicide:
He drew... the things inside that needed saying. Beautiful pictures he kept under his pillow.
When he started school he brought them...
To have along like a friend.
It was funny about school, he sat at a square brown desk Like all the other square brown desks... and his room Was a square brown room like all the other rooms, tight And close and stiff.
He hated to hold the pencil and chalk, his arms stiff
His feet flat on the floor, stiff, the teacher watching
And watching. She told him to wear a tie like
All the other boys, he said he didn't like them.
She said it didn't matter what he liked. After that the class drew.
He drew all yellow. It was the way he felt about Morning. The Teacher came and smiled, "What's this?
Why don't you draw something like Ken's drawing?"
After that his mother bought him a tie, and he always Drew airplanes and rocketships like everyone else.
He was square inside and brown and his hands were stiff. The things inside that needed saying didn't need it
Anymore, they had stopped pushing... crushed, stiff
Like everything else.
After I spoke in Nashville, a mother named Debbie pressed a handwritten note on me which I read on the airplane to Binghamton, New York:
We started to see Brandon flounder in the first grade, hives, depression, he cried every night after he asked his father, "Is tomorrow school, too?" In second grade the physical stress became apparent. The teacher pronounced his problem Attention Deficit Syndrome. My happy, bouncy child was now looked at as a medical problem, by us as well as the school.
A doctor, a psychiatrist, and a school authority all determined he did have this affliction. Medication was stressed along with behavior modification. If it was suspected that Brandon had not been medicated he was sent home. My square peg needed a bit of whittling to fit their round hole, it seemed. ... ... I cried as I watched my parenting choices stripped away. My ignorance of options allowed Brandon to be medicated through second grade. The tears and hives continued another full year until I couldn’t stand it. I began to homeschool Brandon. It was his salvation. No more pills, tears, or hives. He is thriving. He never cries now and does his work eagerly.
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DenvrDave
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 790
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
Schleppenheimer: Sounds like we have a lot in common (8th grade sons with AS), thanks for sharing.
AMD: I'm curious what medication you have found that works. If you are uncomfortable saying the medication on this forum, maybe you could PM me? If this is too personal a question, no reply necessary, I will totally understand.
Tracker: Very insightful, thank you very much for sharing. I am a geological engineer, am very math and science-oriented, and therefore we have some things in common. I have found many of your posts to be very helpful and appreciate your participation.
Ouinon: IEP stands for "Individualized Education Plan." It is a plan that those of us who chose to send our children to public schools can use to obtain additional school-supplied resources, supports, and accomodations to help our children in school. Thanks for sharing your opinion on the value of public school, I also have my opinions on the best way to educate children, and if you would like to express more of yours or hear mine I suggest you start a new topic...I would be happy to contribute. The purpose for this topic was to gain/share information related to spacing out and possible ways to help children cope with spacing out.
Well, I did suggest one, ( home-unschooling ), and then then got a bit carried away with the power of copy and paste in answer to AMD's post.
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QFT!
Even the headmaster at my son's school had nothing to say in favour of school ( compared to homeschooling ) except for the socialising in breaktimes. He openly admitted that children learn faster at home, and that boredom most of the time in school is normal. He said that breaktimes were the only thing he ( himself ) had enjoyed, and that he pretty much switched off during the rest of the time until mid-way through college/secondary school.
I suspect "spacing-out" is what people on the spectrum do in response to the intense unremitting boredom of school, whereas neurotypicals pass the time by exchanging constant non-verbal social signals among themselves, maintaining pack-contact and heirarchies. In fact school may not seem as boring to NTs because a classroom is a "social event/situation", something which always commands their attention, and this may prevent them falling into the coma which AS so often seem to fall into.
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Detren
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Joined: 7 Feb 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 410
Location: in the connection between the ansibles
For IEP recommendations:
Teachers know that child's mind may wander and are to walk by and gently tap child's desk in a discreet manner to pull attention back to task.
Child to receive short break to walk to the drinking fountain or bathroom every so many minutes to allow child to redirect attention.
Yes, my son can space out in school. One teacher, after getting frustrated with it all year, finally realized he wasn't doing it to be disrespectful and started doing exactly what Detren suggested you put in the IEP: she would quietly walk over and tap on his desk or his shoulder (depending on how far out he was) to draw him back.
I know from my son that it gets worse the more chaotic a classroom is, as in, the tuning out seems to be more affected by sensory overload than the content of the material. Being in well controlled classrooms, as a result, can help. AND having a teacher spout lots of interesting facts, of course. Sometimes you have to trade A for B in finding the right balance, but that is tough to call before entering the situation.
We have asked all my son's teachers to provide pre-written copies of assignments or instructions, and they are all supposed to be posting all homework to SchoolLoop (school wide policy). Many AS kids have trouble copying or writing in addition to issues with blanking out, so it is a fairly common IEP request to get a copy of EVERYTHING in writing.
Hopefully those practical suggestions will help. He is going to have to learn to adapt and accommodate; he is who he is; but many AS before him have and he will, too. With a little help, of course ![]()
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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
As Tracker knows, I love having his voice here. He comes to unselfishly give our kids a better childhood; he has no kids of his own; and he spends a lot of time thinking and composing. It is very, very, very much appreciated.
We have many thoughtful posters, of course, but Tracker really goes above and beyond for someone with no personal vested interest here, and I'm glad when people acknowledge it.
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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
Aww, its nice to know that I am loved. Plus, I got laid off work a few weeks ago, so what else am I supposed to do with my time
I will also agree with DW, the environment plays a role in how easy it is to concentrate. As I mentioned in that other thread, there are multiple factors including tiredness, how good I am feeling (head aches, etc.), the environment, my interest in the topic, whether I am hungry, and many other factors. Its not just based on 1 simple variable.
I didn't realize this, I am sorry to hear it. Have you got leads on a new position?
And I know you, you post whether or not you really have the time
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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
Also, i have heard having the child chew gum, having a fidget toy or even weighted lap blanket may help in class and having an aide may help as an accommodation. I learned these after he started meds.
Good luck!
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For a few children and a few adults (not everyone), the central nervous system stimulants - alerting agents (ADHD meds) - do actually work and cause the users to temporarily pay attention a little better.
It's a real and visible improvement (not a cure). That's my understanding.
