Need help & Advice about 17 year son with severe depress

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Our son is 17 and a junior in high school. Last year he became severely depressed and has been hospitalized 3 times. He is getting very good treatment and is undergoing electro-convulsive therapy. But he's soooooooo depressed and he's hearing voices. He is not psychotic. It's part of the depression.

He has put everything on school. He hates school. Right now he's so anxious that he can't go to school full time. He's going for 2 classes. He doesn't want to get better because he doesn't want to go to school. He wants to be a 2 year-old. He says God promised to turn him into one on his birthday.

Does anyone have experience with severe depression? Did your child overcome it? Our son has no friends. A school counselor has found a senior who is willing to take him on has a buddy. I hope that will help.

I guess I need a shoulder to cry on. I'm so worried that he'll always be this way.

A lot of times NT people, especially at school, pretend that people with autism have made progress when we haven't really. We have a good day, make a little progress toward something, and they suddenly think we're all better and can handle everything the way they want us to. They want so badly for us to be better that they use any excuse to pretend that we are so that they can jam us into a less individualized program.

We do make real progress, but it is SLOW. It is mind-bogglingly, infuriatingly slow. By focusing on all the progress we aren't making, it is possible for educators to remove any joy or sense of accomplishment.

Is it possible to promise your son that he can get better WITHOUT his placement changing? Is it possible to promise him that he will not be put into a more demanding situation until he can actually handle it? It may be that he does not want to get better because "better" in the past has been a way for others to put him in situations that were not possible for him.

Have you tried a gf, or gfcf, or Fructose&Fructan-free diet?

Diet can, and does, have a massive effect on mood and cognitive function.

One fairly reliable sign that diet might be an issue is if someone seems to be addicted to a particular food, eg. sugar or wheat or dairy products, ( or all three! :lol ).

PS. I understand his hating school. My 11 year old PDD/AS has home-un-schooled most of his life because he finds school, on the whole, so desperately mind-numbingly, painfully boring and pointless.
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I'm not sure i'll ever agree with electro shock therapy.

As for wanting to be a 2 year old and becoming one on his birthday, i suspect YOU stated he was acting like a two year old, and he gave you the smart-ass God answer?

As for his school.. Agree. Let him control how much he can handle. He's the only one able to make that judgement. He's still going to two classes, voluntarily? That's probably all he can take, and if you agree that you aren't going to force him to take more courses AT the school, then it'll probably help him come out of the depression (get better).

As for voices, that's not caused by depression. That's an imbalance, and it points towards him being on the schizophrenic spectrum - or may be caused by the electrocution. Either way, that needs to be assessed by a psychologist.

If you want him to learn more than the two classes, make him buy a textbook from one of the other classes, and learn from the textbook on his own time, at home. Agree that he can choose the subject.

Thank you, Vector, for giving me an explanation that sort of helped.

It's not the school that's the problem. They would let him stay home all the time. He gets straight A's. We don't want to send him back before he's ready. The problem is that he's put all his focus on school as being the problem. But it really isn't. It's not having friends. My hope is that he can find some happiness outside of school with adults until he gets through high school. He's used to adults. The teenage world is boring to him. I guess I was looking for a little boost to keep me moving along. I wonder if depression is common in Aspies. It looks like I came to the wrong place.


A note to OddFiction: you really shouldn't comment on things if you don't know what you're talking about. Before you dis ECT, you should learn a bit about it. It's not like One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. And it has helped him tremendously. Hearing voices IS part of depression - severe depression. Again, you don't know what you're talking about. He is NOT schizophrenic and he is not being electrocuted. I didn't tell him he was acting like a 2 year old. But you are. Please take your anger somewhere else.

Depression can be co-morbid to AS, but that doesn't mean all our AS members are going to be able to accurately get inside your son's head. They share the perspective they have, because it feels right to them, but only you can know what applies. A message board is an exchange of ideas; it won't always be the answer. We like to think it can be, but there are no guarantees. And, never, will all responses be appropriate.

Tracker is our member who seems to be best able to get inside the heads of troubled teens, but I don't know when he'll be able to post again; he is studying for his masters degree. The book he wrote for parents is linking in our "Recommended Reading" section, but I'm not sure much relates to what you are currently going through.

I'm curious why you see the friends as the most likely lifeline. Is that something your son has expressed, the desire to have friends? Many AS don't feel the need for friendships, but some do; either way, it often isn't in the way we perceive friendship. My son would have no interest in an assigned buddy; what he wants are kids interested in the role playing games he is interested in and, more importantly, able to talk intelligently about them. He doesn't want someone who will listen politely; he wants that rare person who can actually engage with him on it. Is this boy the school has picked out going to be able to do that, assuming that is the type of thing your son needs from a friendship, like my son does? My son would rather be alone than engage with kids who "humor" him, are "being polite," or otherwise are "boring" or "irritating." There is a good chance this will prove something that can't be created by well meaning adults and, the worst part is, your son knows it, and the futility may be feeding his depression (not saying it is, just speculating, based on what I've seen from my unique child).

I'm curious, are the voices benevolent or malevolent? Have the doctors talked with you about what the choice of voices might mean? Or is it all too far off sync? I never heard voices in my depression (I had postpartum depression after my daughter was born - not the same, but maybe the tip of a similar ice berg?), but I recall how thoughts and concepts could worm, and take hold, when I didn't want them to. And ... as much as I hate to admit it, given how extreme those ideas were, there were probably clues in those topics, as to what was triggering the depression.

Mostly, I wish you the best of luck in figuring out how to help your son. I think the advice of making sure HE KNOWS expectations won't increase on him if he gets better is solid but, otherwise, this isn't a road I've been down. I'll send some prayers.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 22 Oct 2010, 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry you have not yet gotten the sympathy you needed. I really do feel for you, and I thank you for being a concerned and loving parent. Your son is lucky to have you.

You must remember that we have autism. Empathy is not really our big thing. The Autism Support Network might be helpful, too, if you haven't tried them-- I think more parents post there.

And, yes, depression is common in Aspies. The world is set up by people whose brains work differently than ours, in order to benefit them, not us. Because of our difficulties with socializing and making friends, we are often extremely lonely. And extremely angry.

School becomes an extremely aversive environment for many kids with autism, both because we often have suffer pain there and because we form rigid associations too easily. For some kids, telling them that they are going to school would be like telling an NT person, "You're going to start straight into the sun for several hours." It just hurts.

I still think that if he can get your son to believe that he won't be punished for getting better (by being put into a painful situation), you will remove an important obstacle, and maybe get him to stop wanting to be two.

Vector, thanks for your reply - it is definitely something all parents need to keep in mind.

We have had sooo much difficulty helping my son because he has periods of being, for lack of a better way to put it, "normal" that can last months...and then things get significantly worse (for this reason we initially looked at BPD and rejected the AS diagnosis.) I think his regressions are due to us raising our expectations too high, which we're on the alert for now.

JenniferMom, I was a severely depressed and suicidal teen/young person, although not to the degree you're describing. I wish I had had a parent as concerned and understanding as you show yourself to be...and believe me, somewhere in there, your son is helped by just knowing that you accept him and care. You are in my thoughts. Big hug.

I do know quite a bit about ECT - I did a few days worth of research not so very long ago (and when I say days i mean immersing myself in the topic.

I believe I stated he ought to be bringing that factor to the psychologist. As far as i know, Depression can "release" symptoms of the scizophrenic spectrum - but you may be right here, and I may be wrong. It's still something to take to the psychologist, as ECT has demonstrated a far lower success rate with people affected by shizophrenia.[/quote]
I don't have any anger, I said no such thing, and I retain my doubts that that comment didn't come from outside. Maybe it wasn't you (and for suggesting it, I appologize - it was innappropriate of me) but it most likely came from someone outside of him, and you might ask who's trying to tear him down like that.

Just FYI, both my kids have gone through stages of wanting to be little again. I can see that becoming overly strong in a period of severe depression. As I've seen it, it represents a desire to go back to what they remember as a simpler time, when everyone just loved them, thought they were adorable, and didn't expect so much from them. A time before insecurities and anxiety, when unconditional love existed, not just from mom and dad, but from the world. Everyone loves a toddler, and people tolerate all sorts of inappropriate behavior from a toddler; our kids KNOW that; they see it everyday. It may not be a complete picture, but just the desire is a pretty big clue as to what the child is seeking.

I have to agree about not jumping to drastic (and possibly incorrect) conclusions about the psychotic symptoms. IIRC there is a specific DSM entry for "psychotic depression," in the "depression" section, which is not linked to any schizophrenic condition. One of the conditions for it is that the delusions, voices, etc. are "mood congruent."

When I was about 15, I was extremely depressed, and did hear whispery voices telling me I ought to kill myself. No one knew, so the depression was never treated, but by the grace of G*d (or whatever it was) I somehow survived it. In 27 years since then I've never heard voices like that again, not even when extremely sleep deprived. Most notably, I've also never been that depressed, again, either. So it seems like it's a function of depression alone. And there are many things that can cause psychotic symptoms (in anyone), i.e glucocorticoids (prednisone), amphetamines, L-DOPA, severe sleep deprivation, etc.) Anyway, just my my experience, FWIW, there.

Perception is everything. If your son is "putting everything on school" and is saying he doesn't want to get better because doing so would mean he has to go back, I'd say you need to listen carefully to what he's saying. While he may be doing well academically and school personnel are supportive of him, from what you've written, I'd say school is definitely the problem for him. In my son's case, school was the problem, too. Academics were generally not an issue for him - he achieved good grades and was on the honor roll throughout high school. School was where he least fit in and where his differences seemed to be in full view for everyone to see. School, on a good day, was where he was ignored by other students and on a bad day was where he felt misunderstood, teased, bullied, was yelled at or embarrassed by a less than understanding teacher. It was a stressful place where a fire alarm could go off unexpectedly or where he couldn't depend on finding someone he knew well enough to sit with at lunch. I think not having friends is part of what causes my son to feel depressed, although he has told me that having friends is too stressful for him and he prefers to be alone. I think the thing that bothers him most about not having friends is not so much being alone as the fact that not having friends isn't "normal" and it bothers him that others may see him as not being normal - if that makes any sense? Have you discussed the senior buddy with him? I know my son would rather pluck out his eyes than agree to something like that. He would find it way too humiliating. (I'm not criticizing this idea. I suggested the same kind of thing to my son when he was in high school. I'm just wondering if your son has been told and if it could be contributing to his depression and desire to not get better and go back to school.)

When you say the school would let him stay home all the time, do you mean they would provide home tutoring or allow him to read the text and complete assignments/tests at home or would you have to look into an on-line school or home schooling? It may be worth a try to see if his depression lifts. If you're concerned about socialization, he can get that in other ways besides school. In hindsight, I wish I had looked into these things for my son.

Also, I'm wondering if the voices could possibly be a side effect of any medication he's on for depression or anxiety? My son was put on a couple of meds and both times experienced auditory and visual hallucinations. The first time he experienced them, his therapist felt sure it wasn't the medication he was on but after my son stopped taking it, the hallucinations stopped. He was put on a different med and the same thing happened. We took him off that med and the hallucinations stopped and he has never had an issue since. I'm sure you and his doctors have probably ruled this out but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

Now that he's attending a community college in the area, there's no real need for him to socialize as far as he's concerned. He goes to class and comes home. He seems happier than he did while he was going through high school. He does have bouts of depression here and there but the intensity, frequency and duration does seem to be less and less as he gets older. I wish I could tell you for certain that your son won't always struggle like he does now. At the very least, I hope things get better for both of you as time goes on. He's lucky to have a mom who loves him and cares for him as you do.

You wanna know how I overcame my severe depression? I left school. Highschool is not a conductive atmosphere for aspies. My anxiety became worse and worse and now I can barely leave my house.

If he really is depressed about friends its just going to be amplified by going to school where people are surrounded in cliques and he is being left out of everything. If he is making straight A's he is smart -- get him in community college or do some homeschooling. School isn't going to do anything for his depression or self-esteem and is going to make things worse in the long run.

+10

I don't mean to clutter up the thread with "ditto," but that is an excellent suggestion. I would've been much better off as a teen finishing up HS at the local junior college. Having little (or even no) social contact for those years would've been better than all the negative social crap (bullying, active exclusion, flaunting, etc.) I experienced. It's better to have no social experiences if the only ones you can get at the time are all highly negative. And one's "peers" would also have a few or more years to mature a little before you had to be around them again in college (or a job, or wherever).

I am not sure if St. Johns wort would help with a major depression but you may want to try it. Studies shows it helps with moderate depression and it is a supplement in US.
I used it some time ago and it really helps me calm down also exercise helps to bare life in all its meaninglessness.

Thank you for all of your comments. They really woke us up to what our son doesn't talk about - the stress of school. He says it's the homework that's the problem. Last year the homework was ridiculous. But I think it's more likely the stress of being in school and the homework on top of it.

He went to Africa the summer before his depression started - a year ago. He spent 3 weeks with NT kids on a National Geographic trip and had a great time. For the first time he was accepted and part of a group. It really opened him up to his feelings. He came home to no friends. It's like the lights went on to how lonely he was. This is all looking back with 20/20 vision. He didn't talk much about his problems. Now he does. Thank God.

Yesterday I was feeling so low because I didn't have a plan. The doctors were saying one thing and my heart said another. And Spencer said something else. Thanks to your comments, I now have a better understanding of what Spencer is going through and a new plan. I need to talk to him about it, of course.

He needs to get through high school. So he'll take the classes he needs to and come home for the rest of the day. Last week that worked really well. He doesn't need to take all the electives and, if he wants to take more I can hire a tutor to teach him a foreign language - or whatever. My son can lead the way. This feel right to me.

I'm also going to print out some of your comments and take them to school and show them to his doctors. I know it will be a real eye opener. I'm also going to start a new thread asking specifically for people on the spectrum to tell me about what high school was like for them.

Thank you thank you thank you. I feel so much better when I have a path to follow to help my son. I love him so much. It hurts so much to see him so sad and lost. Thanks to you taking the time to write to me I now feel like I know what I need to do.