Advice requested in regards to 15 year old son

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Hi everyone
My 15 year old son with PDD-NOS was suspended from school today.
He was in science class. There was a lighter in the desk he sat in. I'm fuzzy as far as what happened next but according to the teacher and the vice principal that contacted us there were others involved. My son did light the lighter in the class and was sent to the office. I'm not sure if he was dared to light it or what.
He's never done anything like this before, he has not been a behavior problem. This is his first year in this school and most of the kids are new to him. At the office, the vice principal tells us that he was very respectful and honest about what he did but he would not talk about who else was involved or what they did or said. The vice principal said my son said that he still had to continue to be in class with these people and he didn't want to make things harder on himself socially by getting them in trouble.
He is now suspended for three days.
I'm concerned about the possibility of situations like this occurring again. I'm hoping that his desire for friendship doesn't cause him to be tricked into doing things that are going to continue to get him into trouble.
Have any other parents experienced similar situations and how have they been able to help their ASD child understand others motives and effects of peer pressure/helped them to be able to develop good judgement/skills/tools to handle similar situations? He seems to be too old for "social stories" unless I'm missing something in that regard.
I appreciate your help.

Typically I despise the "don't snitch" mentality and all of the rule breaking that goes along with it, however, in light of the fact that your son is on the spectrum, while he made the ethically and morally wrong choice, he made the functionally correct choice and that likely came to him in a sort of epiphany. Let me explain.

During the course of one's life, one is taught right and wrong. Children are taught to follow rules, never lie, etc. Children on the spectrum will obey stringently.

If all the world had AS or PDD-NOS, no one would ever lie to spare feelings, lie for their own personal benefit, or jaywalk. All rules and regulations would be followed exactly how they were written.

However, the world doesn't work like that. NT's will lie to spare someone's feelings. NT's will jaywalk. NT's will lie rather than tell the truth if doing so would result in punishment. NT's bend rules, and NT's punish those who do not go along with this.

A person on the spectrum lives in a world where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they follow all of the rules and do what they have been told is right, they are at a disadvantage because they are "competing" in an arena where no one else is following rules, and following some of those rules is detrimental to themselves. And then if they don't follow the rules they risk the punishments which go along with that.

Your son did something quite extraordinary for someone on the spectrum. Your son realized that the punishment for not snitching on his classmates...a few days suspension, was far less than the punishment for snitching on his classmates, indefinite social alienation.

In other words, he reasoned like a neurotypical.

Should that really be corrected? I am not suggesting you not talk to him about peer pressure and making the right choice, just give some good thought to what the right choice REALLY is, and not what it is in an ideal world which he really doesn't exist in.

This sounds really familiar, as my son was particularly vulnerable in middle school and I've dealt with several suspensions that had to do with peer-pressure-induced bad-behavior. I was on a first name basis with the Vice Principal, and there were entire weeks when I would get a call from the school every day. Fortunately things are going much better in high school in terms of socialization. The way I dealt with these situations was basically talking to and coaching my son. After every incident, after the emotions had settled down, we would have one or several long chats in which I asked a lot of questions, got the whole story, and then would talk with my son about why he did what he did, what options did he have, what choices did he make, what he could have done differently, how to resolve the situation moving forward, other people's motiviations, and on and on. It amounted to a whole lot of talking and patience. On the days he was suspended, I stayed at home as he worked a full 8 hour day doing homework . When he ran out of school-supplied homework, I would make up my own writing and math assignments for him. Ironically, he worked hard and enthusiastically all day on the suspension days when it was just him and me. That's how I learned that he is able to focus for long periods of time, and that he can put in a full day's work. But dang if he doesn't do that in school. Best of luck

Sounds familiar. Middle school is tough. I think sometimes kids with social issues realize they might garner friends by getting attention negative attention or doing bad things others seem to be doing, and then not realize that people are doing this to take advantage of them or that their laughing is at them and not at the funny negative thing they did.

Talk with him about the situation. Try to find out if it was indeed a case of classmates manipulating him into getting himself into trouble, as you suspect. Then, if it was, explain - logically, not using arguments from emotion or authority - what was going on. Once he realizes that people can mean him harm in situations like that, he'll have a better chance of identifying them in time to avoid them.

If it was anything like my school expirence he was set up.

You know, I am almost going to have to agree with the first responder in this post. In fact, do not be surprised if the teachers treat your son differently after the suspension even though your son took the blame. Simply put, the schools actually pride themselves on teaching the "Don't Snitch" mentality and even though they had to suspend him, they are proud that he did that. I would look into what the punishment is suppose to be for this type of infraction. You may find that they actually gave the minimum punishment.

Now regarding peer pressure, I do not know what to tell you. You will need to teach your son how to deal with it.

What is it that makes you think someone else was involved - beyond your feeling about what was said by the teachers and principal? The reason I ask - DS isn't your son's age, and he has impulse control issues; he would not be able to stop himself from trying out a lighter that came into his possession. If the others involved just left the lighter where your son found it and stepped back, I would guess that he has no idea if someone else is involved and is confused by all the questioning. I don't know your son - is this possible?

If the teacher and principal have a good idea about what actually happened, I would ask them to tell you what they know - you may be able to frame the questions in the way your son needs to be able to tell his side of the story. We did manage after several hours with my son to get a play-by-play of a situation he was blamed for, where he was frightened and confused by what happened, but we needed to go through the entire hour-long period, step-by-step, starting with when he entered the room.

If you do find out, you need to explain to the principal what your son may be up against if he tells the truth, and ask how they expect to protect him.

I thank you all for your posts, you are all amazing.
I think that it has been helpful for my son to have 3 older brothers in regards to the "not snitching" - acting like an NT might.
I've spoken more to him this morning and I'll relate what he said.
They were doing group work. MomSparky, you were right, he saw the lighter and his immediate reaction was to see if it worked. He flicked it on. He says that a couple of the other guys in the group had their own lighters and lit them also, one actually burned a little of his own hair, which made a smell and caught the teacher's attention.
The teacher told them all to get back to their original desks. My son thought that would be the end of it. Following returning to his desk the teacher asked who had the lighter and my son stepped up and said he had the lighter and gave it to the teacher. He was then sent to the office. He seems confused at how things transpired. The other two boys let my son be the scapegoat, from what I can see as they also had lighters and lit them and my son was not the one who burned anything.
We need to make an appointment with the school for an interview with my son and us prior to them allowing him back. The letter that was sent home states that he was suspended for "lighting a fire".
He is also concerned as he has received several lates from a teacher in a class he has right after phys. ed. If he gets 10 lates we will also be suspended. He says he tries to dress quickly but he has also always had fine motor difficulties/motor planning problems and it does take him longer to dress. I did explain to the teacher why my son was late but apparently he is still marking him late.
I really appreciate the ability to discuss issues like this in this forum.

I would make sure you point out to the principal that they are setting a bad precedent by punishing a child for telling the truth and accepting the blame for other people.

It's a fine line - in the situation my son was involved in, he wasn't written up or suspended and should have been - even if he wasn't in control of himself at the time, there are still consequences for actions. In your son's case, he didn't light anything but the lighter - I'm having trouble framing that as "starting a fire" and wonder about the specific language of that rule.

Hello there.

Perhaps I am not getting the full story here, but this seems a bit silly.

There was a Bunsen Burner sitting on the desk in your child's science class; which is a fairly typical, and mostly harmless, tool used in chemistry. Your child decided to fiddle with it, and turned it on. And that got him suspended for 3 days? If he had chased people around with a lit flame and tried to light them on fire, then I could see the suspension, but just testing to see if the equipment worked seems like an odd thing to suspend somebody about.

If I got suspended every single time I tested something to see how it worked then I would have gotten suspended several times a day in high school. I just don't see what he did that required a trip to the office or a suspension.

I mean really, if all he did was turn on the lighter, and get suspended for it, then consider this a good opportunity to teach your child about the absurdity and pointlessness of bureaucracy, as being exampled by the school. If he learns how stupid the bureaucracy is now, then he will learn to avoid it when it comes time for him to get a real job.

All this would totally be my son. I'm not convinced your son has any way to understand why the lighter was considered a series rule violation. Don't lighters actually get used in science class sometimes? My son is a Boy Scout and fully trained in the proper use of lighters, knives, and so forth. He had to learn as a rule that these things are not allowed in school, because of the potential missuses, the effect of having so many kids, etc. It is possible that your son was not fully aware it was a rule, or considered a serious one. Now, obviously, he knows, but I would talk to him about how aware he was, or was not, about it before, and, depending on his answers, let him know that you aren't as upset about this as school is, because you know him and know there was no mal-intent. But, schools must follow the rules they have, which do exist for a reason, and offer the designated consequences, so it is what it is as far as that goes.

As for the other kids not jumping up and offering the truth that they had lighters ... well, I guess that is a lesson in human behavior, that not everyone will follow the same standards of honesty that he will, and that you absolutely do not want to change his honest nature. He did a good job of interpreting some of the social rules of kids his age, in sticking to being honest about his own involvement without dragging others in, and he may be frustrated by the unfair result. Commiserate with him on the later; life isn't always fair in the short term, but it seems to even out in the long term, and each child has to decide his own value system for himself. I guess I would tell your son that you are totally happy with the value system he is following for himself as evident in this difficult situation.

It will be interesting to see what happens socially when he returns to school.

I have to agree that the suspension sucks, and maybe I'm just an oblivious mom but I don't think your son actually did anything alarming at all. He seems to be right where he should be as far as making decisions go. He made an expensive mistake testing the lighter; but it was still just a mistake. I'm more worried about why the other boys had lighters, but maybe I don't want to know.

Thinking more about it - I would totally challenge the wording on the suspension. There should be some way to better convey the innocence in the situation.

Websister, your son may have mastered the NT rule of not snitching, which protects his social status with peers, although not necessarily with the administration. Forget them; they're more interested in protecting the school's reputation than the students' best interests. But your son forgot another NT rule: deny deny deny. In other words, do not give any school employee (or outsourced contractor) any information they don't already know. Instead, pick a story, get all the details straight, and stick with it no matter what. And don't try to explain it detail, because there's a risk of getting confused in one's own lies; plain old stubbornness is far better.

Let's look at your situation. The teacher saw, in her mind, "kids endangering the school by playing with lighters", or worse "attempting arson" (hey, teachers can get the craziest ideas in this post-9/11 world we live in). But she did not know which kids. So, she asked who had the lighter, because she did not see any specific student holding it. As unfortunate as it sounds, your son should have remained silent, because anything he said was used against him in the principal's office (a reference to the Miranda Warning). Your son should have just sat quietly, like his classmates did; coming forward did not do him any good. I would explain to your son that if he did not cause any injuries or property damage, and no one caught him in the act, he should not admit to anything. Because sadly, honesty does not reduce the punishment at school, and does undue damage to the student's permanent record.

This is all vastly different than if the teacher went to his desk and directly asked him: "did you have a lighter on you?", or actually caught him in the act of lighting a lighter. In that case, he should definitely the truth, because lying will make things worse. Instead, come forward and fess up, because even hardcore NTs will admit it in that case. When caught in the act, or not caught but having caused injuries or property damage, then telling the truth and showing remorse is a great sign of character. Encourage your son to exercise discretion is his honesty, because it today's world, it's not always the best policy, unless of course, you have a lawyer.

Before anyone slams for promoting dishonesty, ask yourself this. Let's say you ran a red light at an completely empty intersection because you spaced out, not deliberately. And then a cop stops you a few blocks later, but only for a burned-out brake light (he doesn't write a ticket for anything else). Would you tell him what happened at the intersection? Or would take the ticket you're getting, and consider yourself lucky he didn't catch you running a red light?

From my understanding, it wasn't the bunsen burner, it was an actual cigarette lighter that was in the desk he was sitting in, they are open at the front. The teacher smelled something burning (the other person put a lighter to their own hair) they felt that it was more than just flicking the lighter on but even according to the school, they have no evidence that anything was burned by my son, just the teacher stating he smelled something burning and that was what drew his attention.
It does seem like overkill to suspend him and we will talk about this when we meet with the school. I was initially shocked as the year seemed to be going well as far as marks and keeping up with assignments, I guess I was taken off guard. From our experiences last year I would have been fully expecting the school to get in contact with us and tell us he was falling behind in his schoolwork, but none of our 4 boys has ever been suspended before, I do feel that possibly the company he is keeping in this class might have something to do with it. Being new to the school, he is looking for friends, he just lacks good judgment. I find it interesting as I just received his IPP home for my approval (equivalent of IEP in the States). Even though we had asked to be included in the IPP process, we weren't, but we're supposed to sign and send it back. For strengths they have written down:

associative thinking
concept formation
understanding of social conventions
common sense reasoning and social judgement

I'm not sure how or why they may have decided this but I do not feel that it is accurate and I will have to ask them to revise this, especially in light of what has just occurred.
Thanks again, everyone.

Last edited by websister on 06 Nov 2010, 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's not what he's being punished for. He's being punished for breaking a school rule that's a perfectly sensible rule, and for protecting the guilty. While I agree the "don't snitch" mentality is predominant in neurotypical society, that's not a good thing - it's one of the reasons why society functions so poorly. It would be better if everyone were honest all the time.

I know women who had their hair set on fire in high school. If someone burns his own hair by accident, the next step may be burning someone else's hair on purpose. The fact that this school is nipping this kind of behavior in the bud is a point in their favor, not a point against them.

It's unfortunate that the original poster's son may have to learn these rules one rule at a time. That's not a reason to fail to enforce good rules, though.

About this:

Does your son have an IEP? I don't think its right that he should get penalized for being late if the lateness has something to do with PDD-NOS. If he has an IEP, perhaps you could get an accomodation that allows a little extra time after phys. ed. to get dressed and get himself organized.