Do your children have "smart mouths"?

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My 4 year old son sometimes speaks in the most disrespectful way to me and my husband. I was wondering if this is something typical with aspie kids? For example, his father will tell him to do something and he'll respond loudly, "You need to get it!! ! You only want me to get it so you can do XXX!! !" I'll then say, "S, don't talk to your father like that!" He says things like this to me also. Anyone seeing this behavior would think we are the most lax parents to allow our kid to talk to us like that.

It seems like he has no filter. I was wondering if other parents deal with this? Is this an aspie thing or our problem as parents. We didn't have this with our older girls.

I always seem to feel at a loss for how to best deal with his behaviors.

I'm sorry, I'm laughing... your son is very bright.

I don't have anything like this with my son, but then if we would like him to do something, we ask him if he will help us. He has always been more than happy to comply. My husband's children (who are typical) were not willing to be helpful, and will fight with us to this day about simple things like cleaning up after themselves (they will claim someone else made the mess and it's not their responsibility).

I would imagine it's a personality thing, and not an AS thing. When you correct him in the future, you might demonstrate a more appropriate way he can voice his displeasure. It might also be helpful to consider the way he is being asked to do things. He doesn't seem to understand why he is being asked, and THIS is very important to people with AS. We are purposeful people. Give the job a purpose and he may be less apt to argue.

Some children are simply more spirited and less compliant than others, and that could certainly hold true here as well.

One of my grandsons bickers with his parents exactly as they have exampled.

I did. I was the classic "little professor" but I could cop an attitude as well. Sometimes I didn't mean to be rude but got punished anyway. I felt like I was walking on eggshells for most of my childhood. I sometimes DID mean it when I copped an attitude with my parents. My father would threaten to punch my teeth out and I took everything litteraly so I believed him. I grew up afraid of my father but his rage kept me in line. I was a 90's child and a lot of the cartoons an programing I watched featured characters smouth mouthing other characters so I think that played a role as well. I was also stressed all the time because of the bullying in school and I vented it all at my parents when I got home. I had no concept of authority and I didn't understand the signifance of respecting my parents until my teens and only saw things as wrong when I got punished for them. My father and brother also coped an attitude with me so I was getting mixed messages a lot of the time. Most of my teachers didn't even deserve my respect. Pent up rage and stress also played a role and I didn't get punished for mouthing off as I did when I reacted physically. "Talking back" or "back talk" was a confusing term becuase when my parents asked a question, I was naturaly going to talk back. I basicaly have no concept of authority, I won't bend over backwards for someone just because they "said so".

I got written up for the first time in second grade when the teacher told me I have a smart mouth and I told her its better then being a dumb ass. My father use to say that when people would complain about my smart mouth when I younger I did not think it was bad because everyone would laugh when he said it. Teachers told my parents that I could argue as well as an adult refusing to do things I found pointless.

That's an interesting thing to say. Might I guess that you are not Autistic? You seem to be saying that it is a problem that people disapprove of how you raise your child. You also seem to be saying that good parenting is not lax - that allowing your child freedom of expression is bad when he expresses certain things. I must say that the evidence points the other way. Children raised to do as they please generally turn into more well-rounded and calm adults. Troubled adults more often than not come from highly structured child-hoods.

If you are asking your child to fetch things, as your example suggests, then this may be part of the problem. When I was young I accepted freely deals for money or food, but if someone simply told me to do something I would quite honestly hate them. Picture for a moment your child telling you to fetch things for him. It is perhaps an equality issue. I noticed most adults did not think themselves my equal, and perhaps you don't think of S as yours, and I concurred - I viewed most people in my environment (during my childhood) as inferiors. I wouldn't be surprised if S also at least did not think of himself as an inferior, but as someone deserving equal treatment and respect to yours.

I think this level of frustration with social interaction is completely typical of an Aspergers kid. The key thing is to start working with him now-- patiently and kindly, counter-intuitive as that is-- to get him to recognize that, no matter how urgent his need is, he is much more likely to get it met if he can address it in a way that meets social convention. If you can think about it in those terms (how can we educate him so that he will be able to communicate his needs in ways that will get them met) it might be easier for him to deal with and easier for you not to get your feelings hurt. Don't let it go, but don't add any extraneous emotion to the interaction, either.

Yes, this message really "jives" with me for lack of better words (sorry for the non-US members). I tend to think that this is the crux of the issue with things and not just oral communication. Educating I think is best and how I look at the situation, but I think my husband struggles with it. (My mom is coming for a visit and I'm really wondering if S will show his "true colors" while she's here. She's definitely old school discipline wise.)

I probably haven't been going about it the right way. The problem is that when I try to really focus on explaining things to him, he tends to shut down and put his hands over his ears. (Someone else mentioned their child doing this too.) Also, when other people say something about him, he will do the shutdown/act out thing not engaging the person directly. Many times, he doesn't want to be corrected about his faults in that manner. If you yell at him, "Hey, stop that now!", he'll stop. But if I say, "S, come here, let me talk to you. What did we talk about jumping on the couch/running in the store, etc.? This isn't the place for it." He doesn't respond to that.

I agree with this. I only accept authority when I see a good reason for it to exist; and the moment that authority seems to abuse its power, or otherwise undermines its legitimacy, I withdraw that acceptance. I only give respect where it has been earned. My parents, especially my father, tried to force me to react otherwise - but the only effect was to make me far more strongly that way than I was to begin with. Where, originally, I would simply reject authority and refuse respect, I learned instead to actively hate and loathe every claim to authority and demand for respect. And, yes, I was this way at four years old.

Hell, yes!

This has been a HUGE source of frustration for DH, as he comes from a military background where you just DON'T talk to authority figures that way...and DS is 10. We've had very little success in changing this behavior on our own (he fortunately realizes that we are less judgemental about it than the rest of the world, so as long as we keep our cool, it's OK. However, yes - sometimes we get stares at the grocery store, so I feel you. )

I think this kind of language is part of a pragmatic speech deficit - DS clearly does not understand or can't deal with the idea that different roles afford you different ways to talk. For instance, in a less-charged example - he frequently says/does stuff at the dinner table that is probably appropriate in a school lunchroom (pretending to dump food on someone's head, opening full mouth, sticking food in his drink cup, etc.)

I find that he has a mild awareness of when he's being inappropriate, but it seems to be exhausting for him to keep track of it all and he just falls into a sort of "default" communication style at home. This unfortunately often mirrors the way we talk to him when we're frustrated. We do point it out and occasionally punish him for it as the situation warrants (we have instituted fines - a quarter for calling me an idiot, for instance) - and are working on keeping our cool and watching our own bossy tone - but we're also hoping to get him some pragmatic speech therapy in the near future.

I was the same way. My parents eventualy realised if they wanted respect from me, they needed to earn it. It's so hypocritical when parents tell their children they must earn the respect of others yet expect the children to belief that their parents and teachers are infalable.

I have to admit, that does sound a lot like the way I talk back to my two year old sometimes. I'm not exactly a kid any more, though, so I am able to put it a little more politely: "Margaret, could you fetch it yourself? You can do XXX when you get back."

People are so strange. Your kid is probably just being honest. Why is that disrespectful? I can barely speak to my parents because everything I say is regarded as hateful and disrespectful to them.

And why say "don't talk to your father like that?" when you don't even specify in what way is problematic? Your kid probably doesn't even know what he is doing is deemed disrespectful specifically. To him he is being honest and to the point, but perhaps a bit lazy.

Authority is often a problem with people with Asperger's. I like total fairness. Why is it that my parents are allowed to order me around and yet if I try to correct something they say or object I'm somehow regarded as being disrespectful? It's as if I weren't even a person.

If you want your child to change how they speak to you, you need to explain why and better have a good reason. I'd probably start with tone. Yelling is not a good thing to do in most situations, for instance.

Thanks very much for replying to my message. Really helps to feel less alone. Couple of ideas about why he may not respond to attempt to reason when "stop" works. I don't know how to write something like this without sounding preachy. Please ignore that and just take any ideas that might be helpfl

1. Information overload. "Stop" is a simple message. If he is overwhelmed, which he probably is when he is misbehaving, any additional input will be like pouring water into a river that has already overflown its banks. When he is in crisis, he needs simple, direct messages. Do analysis later when he is out of a crisis and in a safe environment.

2. Don't make the analysis feeling- or relationship-centered. No sense of punishment, no touchy-feely. No "How do you think it made Grandma feel when." Neutral. Broken into as many manageable chunks as possible.

When analyzing with him, first make sure he understands the very good reasons why he needs to do things your way. "Running in the store is unsafe. Do you understand why?" And make sure he really can explain to you why. If he can't, make a special trip to the store just to point out all the things that could happen to him so he can see them when isn't distracted by other things. Many kids with autism cannot follow rules that they do not understand, and they have trouble understanding a lot of him.

Once you are confident that he understands at least why you think the rule is logical, fair, and important, then focus on his needs. What did he need that he wasn't getting before he started bouncing on the couch? Help identify feelings.

Then identify other courses of action. What can he do that will communicate his needs without misbehavior? Make a plan for a better way to handle a similar situation in the future.

Finally, discuss his level of commitment to the plan you just made. Will he promise to try it? Will he promise to try to remember what the plan was, at least?

agreed with that. i'm an aspie and so is my son, so i never talk to him like he is an inferior being who just needs to obey and shut up. if i'm busy with something else, i will ask him "can you please get me the soap in the bathroom? i have my hands in gross dish water....don't want to make a mess..."like i would to a friend. and as a friend, he is more than happy to help, but if he is busy, i will go do it myself. He knows i will do the same for him. "mom? can you give me the cookies? i don't want to miss that part of the cartoon....."if i'm not busy, i will. if i am busy, i will tell him , and he will sigh and do it himself. simple two way respect .

Aspies have developmental delays in the areas of executive functioning, life and social skills that often result in them lagging behind their NT peers by 1/3. It may be that your 4 yo is a 2 2/3 yo when it comes to his deficits.

These kids want to understand the rules, but at 2 2/3 yo, they are unable to, so they try to form their rules of conduct from the world around him. He may hear the kinds of response you are concerned about from someone he sees at home, in school or on TV and think that it is acceptable and appropriate.

To follow on your concept, his brain's ability to filter the acceptable/real world from what is inappropriate or part of TV's fantasy has not developed, yet. If not, repeating the rules and/yelling won't help, because it will sound like a foreign language to him. It would be like having someone explain something to you in very technical language. You would not have a clue what they were talking about. All you can do is explain the rules matter-of-factly and remember that you are dealing with a child with a functional level of a 3 yo.

They must be corrected, but Aspies can develop self esteem issues, so it is important not to overreact and reward their desire for attention.

Try to identify the source of what he is modeling on and have them watch their mouth or switch programming to the cartoon channels and have him learn the rules from (functional) age appropriate material, like Disney, Sesame Street, etc. Stay away from shows that use sarcasm and snide comments, like sit-coms.