Creating independance in teens

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Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Age: 50
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30 Nov 2010, 8:58 pm

Hi all,

My son is 15 and has Asperger's and ADHD. I have been trying to encourage him to be more independant in his daily routines but we're failing miserably. We've had the same routines for years when it comes to getting up, ready for school, chores, homework and bedtime. The only stuff he seems to be getting more independant with is his chores, he will often do them as soon as he gets home from school before I do, which is what he's supposed to do.

Aside from that, I feel like I spend all day prompting him, to the point that we're both frustrated and feel more like I spend all my time nagging him. I have to walk him through every step of the morning, get up, get breakfast, get dressed, wash up, brush your teeth etc from the time he gets up to the time he goes out the door to catch the schoolbus. Then it starts all over again when I get home, especially at bed time.

If I don't prompt or remind him on what he needs to do then it just doesn't happen, he misses the school bus, I'm late for work, he goes to school without eating or taking his pills, bedtime is just as frustrating as he just doesn't bother going to bed unless I tell him to.

We had a timed schedule that worked well for a while for the afterschool stuff however I found it was causing a lot of issues with him becoming very rigid about what had to be done at what time, very bossy and agressive with his sister and other kids about what they needed to be doing at certain times. (Lunch hour is for eating lunch - not playing soccer!!)

At what age is it common for teens with Aspergers start to become more independant? He wants to start to learn to drive next year and talks about getting a job however at this point he can't even get himself ready for bed on his own. Any suggestions to help him become more independant?

Thanks!

Northeastern292
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30 Nov 2010, 9:10 pm

blinkandimgone wrote:

For me (I just turned 20 three weeks ago, so I still speak teen), independence came over a long period of time. When I was 13, I was barely independent, but by the time I started college, I was working part time, driving,

If your son is somewhat outgoing (I am) tell him that being independent will actually put him in a better spotlight with his peers. Your son might be a little scared-I remember being frightened with the prospect of working at Walmart or anywhere like that.

blinkandimgone
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30 Nov 2010, 9:16 pm

Thanks NE! I am worried that at this rate he'll be 20 and I'll still have to be walking him through getting dressed in the morning! lol

I hate feeling like I spend the whole day on his case for stuff and I know he hates it too but if I don't say anything he doesn't do anything!

DW_a_mom
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30 Nov 2010, 9:31 pm

AS kids seem to be on their own unique time table, and many will struggle with certain independence skills all their lives, but they DO develop and mature. Be patient, nudge when you see openings, and maybe encourage some of the skills by saying "doing this will show me that you are ready to drive." One step at a time, pick your battles, develop work-a-rounds, and so on. Basically, all the things you've had to do his whole life.

Be aware that many AS have issues with driving (it is a multi-tasking skill) but, as with everything, with perseverance and some time to grow into it, they manage to learn it well enough. The common age to get a license does seem to be a few years behind the age for NTs. One discussion a little while ago made it seem like manual transitions might actually be easier for many AS; kind of an interesting side thought to consider, when you get to that point.

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30 Nov 2010, 9:32 pm

Does he have a to do list? You could still use times, but use a time spread (i.e. between 8:30-9:00 get undressed for bed). Just make sure the spread isn't so wide that he is late if he waits until the end. A wrist watch that beeps at 15 minute intervals might help in conjunction.

If he's making progress with chores I would slow down and let him get into a better groove there, then work on the am or pm routines. Sometimes it's difficult for us to master too many complex things at once. Time management is a complex organizational task.

blinkandimgone
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30 Nov 2010, 10:03 pm

Thanks for the replies. I am very nervous about him learning to drive - pretty sure that's typical with ALL kids though! I was thinking of getting him a driver's handbook for christmas which would give him eight months to learn the ins and outs of the rules of the road. Not ntirely sure I want to spend the next eight months having him point out everything I'm doing wrong though! Just kidding, I worry about getting it for him and setting the expectation that he'll be driving on his 16th b-day and the disappointment if he's just not ready quite yet.

He does have a to-do list that we review every few months to account for any changes and he'll be great with it for the first while, then it just becomes invisible to him after time. I did find the to do list worked much better when it was all timed (ie: 6:30 - 7:00 get dressed) and found it worked even better when we added in 'free time' as well so it wasn't just a list of things to do and he could clearly see the times he had throughout the day when he can choose to do whatever he likes.

I was thinking a nice watch with an alarm might be good for him for christmas - hoping it doesn't become another interesting thing to take apart!

Chronos
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01 Dec 2010, 12:13 am

blinkandimgone wrote:

As soon as they want to, or are forced to. To often though, I think parents have a distorted idea of what it means to be independent. I think too many parents think "When he is independent, he will do things my way." This is why parents and teenagers, NT and AS, argue and get into struggles as you have.

When you let, or force your child to be more independent, you have to accept that some things, they are just not going to do your way. They are going to do it their way, whether it is responsible or not, and that is what being independent is about.

I have to say, I do think it's excellent he does his chores on time. Most children do not.

I also realize it's important for him to get up, take his medication, and get to school on time so you yourself are not late for work.

If it's such a struggle, stop struggling. Give him something with an alarm he can carry around, like a cell phone, on which you can program when he is supposed to do things such as his homework, or when he should start getting ready for bed. I would make sure he gets his homework done, and do what you need to do so YOU are not late for work, but I think I'd let him take responsibility for other things, including dealing with the consequences when he does not do them.

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01 Dec 2010, 2:57 am

My mom has pretty much had me making my own food since I was 13 but my younger NT brother has someone waiting on him hand and foot making him sandwiches, getting him sodas, or picking his clothes out for him for when he gets out of work and needs to change into something clean. :roll: My mom and his girlfriend are run ragged because of him.

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ouinon
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01 Dec 2010, 3:42 am

Dopamine pathways!

ouinon_in_recent_post wrote:

Dopamine is necessary for long-term planning, for imagining and taking into account "the future", for accurately evaluating both the long-term consequences ( good and bad ) as well as the short-term "bad" consequences, of our actions. Dopamine is what makes us capable of tolerating as well as organising and maintaining short-term discomfort/unpleasantness/"work" for the sake of a long-term goal, of accepting and putting up with effort, anxiety, risk, "no immediate reward", etc because can "see" and "value" the later rewards. It also enables us to respond appropriately to/"learn from" mistakes, etc.

I have definitely found that I am more capable of daily tasks, of maintaining a regular routine of mundane fiddly boring things as well as both initiating, organising, sustaining and completing longer term projects, when I am on a food-opioid-free diet.

A gfcf ( ie. food-opioid-free ) diet seems to result in my needing less "shoving" to do things, and/or in my being more tolerant, even welcoming, of the sort of pressure/structure/"shoving" which helps/supports me to do things, rather than resenting, or avoiding them. In fact seeking out, on my own initiative, those structures and routines which will help me to achieve various tasks and longer-term projects.

You posted back in June about your son's highly addictive eating patterns, bingeing, etc particularly with wheat/glutenous cereal and dairy/casein, and sugar. A diet high in food opioid peptides ( in the subset/third of people on the spectrum with unsually permeable intestines anyway ), and sugar, is going to be damaging to dopamine pathways.

Here are links to a couple of posts I made yesterday, ( in the Parent's forum ) about this, with quotes/excerpts: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3214560.html#3214560

ouinon wrote:

[ One ] "autism specific" reason why people on the spectrum may benefit from a gfcf diet is that according to two studies, ( a pilot study in 1997 and another far larger study publ in April 2010 ), a subset/36.7% of people on the spectrum have unusually permeable intestines, compared to just 4.8% of the general population, and it is suspected that this permeability allows the passage of unusually large amounts of the food opioid peptides present in casein and gluten ( and no other foods apart from, oddly, spinach ), opioids which have far reaching and powerful effects on brain chemistry and on both mood and cognitive functioning.

I personally have found that cutting out both gluten and casein massively improves not only my mood, ( I no longer suffer from previously recurring mood-disorder and depression ), but also my ability to organise, sustain and complete long-term projects, to carry out mundane daily activities on a regular basis, to engage in and even enjoy what otherwise have tended to seem like tiresomely and rebarbatively small fiddly tasks which go nowhere on a day to day basis but which have very big rewards when maintained over longer periods.

Cutting out gluten on its own, three years ago now, ( after over 10 years of on-off exclusion dieting ), had an effect on my mood, but cutting out both of the food opioids ( casein and gluten ) at the same time has a clear effect on my executive skills as well. Last year I gave a presentation at Autscape ( on diet and mental health in fact! :lol ), which took me months to prepare ( research, writing, and then giving it ), during a period of gfcf diet, ( dairy exclusion as well as the gf ), and this November, having gone gfcf again in mid-October, I wrote 50,000 words for NaNoWriMo, and, still gfcf, I now plan to continue with NaNoFiMo, ( "finishing month" ) for another 30,000 words, to finish my novel ( which I intend to edit in March with NaNoEdMo! :lol )

This sort of sustained effort has always previously been beyond me. ... I think I must definitely be one of the third of people on the spectrum with unusually permeable intestines! :lol

and http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3214668.html#3214668

ouinon wrote:

PPS. The reason why this subset ( 36.7%/a third ) of people on the autism spectrum with unusually permeable intestines may experience radical improvements in executive function on a ( long-term consistent ) gfcf diet is because constant/chronic exposure to opiates/opioids deregulates dopamine pathways. ... [ Role/function and importance of dopamine explained at top of post ]

People with unusually permeable intestines, ( a third of people on the spectrum compared to 4.8% of the general population ), however will, whenever they eat dairy or glutenous cereals, ( ie. at almost every meal time ) be exposing their their brains to opioids/opiate like molecules, which have serious effects on dopamine function:

Opioids/opiates cause the number of dopamine receptors to drop, increase dopamine-reuptake, ( so that dopamine disappears more quickly from the brain ), and may also reduce the amount of dopamine which is produced in the first place. Any sort of addiction, ( including smoking apparently ), which causes an increase in our brain of opiates/opioids ( either by ingesting the opioid in food or "drugs" or by stimulating the production of natural/endogenous opiates ), will have this effect.

Once the dopamine pathway is deregulated it is apparently also likely, ironically/sadly, to lead to new/greater/further/other addiction(s) because more opiates/opioids will be the only way to escape/avoid thinking about the mess that one is making of long-term stuff.

Basically opioids/opiates are the enemy of long-term thinking, and a third of people on the spectrum are exposed to unusually large amounts compared to the general population ).

You might be able to strengthen your son's dopamine pathways and enable him to think ahead, plan, carry out actions towards a goal, etc etc etc, by telling him about food opioid peptides ( their effects on a subset of people's ability to "grow up", to put it bluntly, having only just this last couple of years begun, at age 47, to find out what it feels like not to be in an opioid-induced haze, drifting about, but instead see what I need to pursue long-term goals, and invest in them concretely, etc ), and sugar, and encouraging him to cut them out, and to eat more meat and fish.

Good luck and best wishes.

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