School problems brewing yet again, need some perspective

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Some of you know my daughter's history and how I have posted about her problems at school. She was unsupported last year at public school so I moved her to a private school with a much smaller ratio of kids to teacher and a more child led learning perspective. My daughter has severe school refusal issues and always has. The problems always vary but seem to always revolve around her feeling anxious and confused at school. She will not verbalize her anxiety or confusion at school and so she has dealt with these feelings in various ways over the years. Her current way of dealing with them is withdrawing and then comes home to me and complains about how awful it is and how she can't take it anymore.

This has escalated, as it always does after the newness of a new year fades and some negative experiences start to add up. As I have posted before here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt138197.html our current problem seems to be with a girl who has a quite aggressive approach. My daughter has formed a negative opinion of her (she actually is convinced this girl is EVIL) and cannot deal with the situation at all. My daughter has been doing quite well keeping it together at school, although she is being the one punished and made to sit out when things occur. Of course, I do not know what exactly is happening but I think it is something like this: The girl is aggressive in her play. She found that by blowing in my daughter's face or glaring at her my daughter loses it and becomes single minded in her fear and loathing of the girl. The girl thinks of this as a game and persists. The teacher can't understand why my daughter is so upset and accuses my daughter of being mean to the girl. Especially because the other girl is quite a complainer, always "telling" when my daughter has been provoked into an action. We have been called into conference in which this girl complained about how my daughter won't play with her or treat her nicely and it ends with my daughter being given a directive to be nice and let bygones be bygones. Of course, my daughter cannot do that, she is single minded in her belief the girl is out to destroy her and cause her emotional anguish and drive her insane. She says the girls mocks her all day, taps and touches her when the teacher isn't looking, makes faces at her, and tells the other kids not to play with my daughter (the other girl says my daughter is actually the one doing this to HER although my daughter has never done this type of behavior before to anyone). I do not know what of this is true, and what is my daughter's perspective as the teacher seems to side with the other girl.

Now this is escalating quite severely. At night my daughter is forlorn and depressed, repeatedly saying her life is awful and she wishes she could just disappear or not exist. Each morning she is panicked to go to school and hates being left there. The teacher, however, reports she seems "just fine" all day. I am confused by the difference in perspective!

My daughter's counselor seems to think my daughter is just using strong words to relay how upset she is however, I do believe my daughter knows exactly what she is saying. I genuinely feel when she says these things that she IS miserable and doesn't want to endure a life of these sorts of torments each and every weekday for ten more years. I am not in a position to homeschool her and I am not in a position to keep changing schools-and I don't know if that would even solve anything. It seems she makes these strong judgments on someone who has done her wrong and is deeply upset whenever she even comes in contact with them.

I have tried to explain that in life you will have to work with or be around people you don't really like.
I have tried to tell the teacher to keep them apart, however she thinks they should get along and keeps attempting to put them together.

If anyone has any perspective other than "get her out of this school" please let me know. I don't know if there is a school she could be truly happy in as the very nature of school forces her into an uncomfortable social arena. She does quite well academically and enjoys the success she has in that regard but finds the social aspect of school overwhelming. She is able to get along with most of the other kids in the class, it is just the one girl that is consistently causing her distress. The other kids who have not befriended she has no problem just ignoring. What would you do in this situation or can anyone give me a fresh perspective on this? Thanks.

Unfortunately, I think you're in one of those phases when your daughter is just emotionally behind the other kids, and it's going to take time and patience. You also have one of "those" teachers. Yuck. Do you have a therapist that you work with, outside school? Any kind of professional that you can bring in for a meeting with the school on how to deal with situations like this one with the girl? The problem this teacher seems to have with trying to push the girls together, instead of keeping them apart, stems from the teacher's "world view" of how to deal with children's problems dealing with each other. It may work for many kids that age, but it's so wrong for children like yours, and she won't listen to you - to her, you are just an overprotective mother, who is indulging your daughter to her detriment. She doesn't understand the neurology, and she probably will never believe anything you try to explain to her. She needs an "outside expert with a briefcase." If you have someone like that, who is professional, who has no emotional attachment to your daughter, and who can explain to her that your daughter has a neurological difference that requires that the teacher deal with her in a certain specific way ... The principal and guidance counselor should also be there. If there's anyone else in the school who should be there, have them attend as well.

If you don't have someone, try to find appropriate articles (short ones!) about ASD, that will explain things like how NT's set up ASD kids to get caught, and how silly stuff that doesn't bother NT's can drive ASD kids completely bonkers, and it isn't that they're being obnoxious - they really can't stand whatever-it-is. See whether the principal will consider having an in-service on ASD for the staff.

There's no point in looking to change schools - there's going to be kids like this everywhere. The real issue is finding good teachers. There are good and bad teachers everywhere, too. If this teacher won't become a bit more responsive to your daughter's needs, is there another class that your daughter could transfer to in the same school? Is it possible to try to have your daughter's teachers chosen more carefully in the future? The match is what is going to be critical in having successful school years.

I grew up aspie, without knowing it. I had a lot of teachers who believed the other kids. I had a couple who believed I was evil, because they couldn't make sense of me.

Yes, your daughter is serious. She means what she says. Why the different perspective? First, because at school, your daughter is pulling inside her "turtle shell" as desperately as she can, to keep from being hurt as much as possible. Second, because the teacher is someone who is ignorant and destructive, even if not deliberately so. (It took me years to learn that was even possible - considering the harm ignorant teachers did to my life, I thought for much of my life that they enjoyed wrecking kids' lives for being different.)

What can you do? Get her away from that teacher, at all costs. If that really isn't possible - and it sounds as if that may be the case - at least stick up for her. She's never acted the way she's accused of acting before? But she says this girl is doing it to her? More likely, this girl is putting the blame on her for the actions she knows she is guilty of. Yes, she sounds like a bully; one of those "the other kids don't like me, so I take it out on the weak" sorts. Been there, known them.

You're trying to be fair, so to you I may sound harsh. But I can tell you this - you probably don't have the slightest idea how much Grace is going through. I know I never told my parents everything. I was too afraid they'd make a fuss and I'd have worse problems. Standardised education promotes bullying; there is an inherent structural bias towards exerting pressure on everyone to "fit in". And so school is hell on us. Utter, total hell. Yes, I had some good teachers. They are the only reason I have any sanity at all. And there were decent kids, too. But even with those things, school was a living nightmare. The kids and the teachers who make it so are not going to stop. And the longer you wrestle with the issue, the longer it goes on. If you can't get her out of there, then support her as much as you can, cut her all the slack in the world, and put all your energy into finding a truly excellent teacher for next year. Because she's going to need one, just to undo the damage of this year.

This brings back so many memories I am struggling to even think clearly, and I graduated in 1977... And, no, things aren't that much "different now" - the superintendent of the school system that drove Phoebe Prince to hang herself taught at my high school while I was there. Even before I knew who he was, I read the quotes in the paper, the bureaucratic butt-covering, and it sounded so terribly familiar. He must have learned from my principal and superintendent; they were good at covering up things that made them look bad and trampling kids who got in the way underfoot. Those parents who didn't have a dreadful ordeal in school can never understand what it is like for us. I used to look forward to going to the doctor because it meant I got to avoid some school - and my default image of the medical profession is still Joseph Mengele, thanks to a few horrible doctors who refused to take me seriously. (Another issue your daughter may have to face some day. ) But at least the doctor hurt me (left me with blood pouring out of one ear the worst time) and it was over. I got to go home. I even got to do things that might help me cope. Instead of having to just sit there, and swallow crap, and more crap, and more and more crap...

So she's keeping it together and shutting up and not causing a fuss there, and the teacher doesn't care enough to look deep. (Or isn't able to look deep.) One girl is causing problems.

So. What's actually the goal here? The goal is to get her to not be picked on like this. Which means that the girl could be separated from her by distance (going to a different school), time or a physical barrier. The behavior could also be changed.

You say you can't keep switching schools. Can you switch classes or is the school too small?

If you're affording the cost of private school, can you afford one-on-one tutoring during the same hours?

Time. If time is fixed-- both go to school at the same time-- is grade? Is it possible for her to move back or forward a grade level? I'd consider that a last resort. But is she intellectually able to handle the next grade up, if the teacher is nicer? Or-- and this is to be done only when the risk to her future is outweighed by the risk of her having no future, and only if you and she talk about it seriously for a long time-- can she go back a grade?

If she's touching her, why are they sitting close enough for that to happen in class? Ask that their seats be reassigned to be on opposite sides of the room.

Can she go somewhere else during recess? If she gets some type of therapy, could it be scheduled for then? Do any other kids stay in during recess?

Can you speak to the other girl or her mother?

maybe to try to find another kid in the class who can become a friend? bully will back off if she sees that your daughter has an ally. for that, try to identify who would be the best and have some playdates to strengthen the connections between children.

This teacher isn't a bad teacher--she is struggling to figure my daughter out. And, as is always the case, with a teacher and a class of children, finding the time to figure one very complex, very non-communicative child out is quite difficult. This teacher has zero experience with AS. I live in a small town and have yet to run into another child with AS here. So, the public narrow minded mindset is Autism is a rocking, non verbal, non functioning child which my daughter very clearly is not. She is seen as an excessively shy child who doesn't like to talk. The other parents know something is "different" about my daughter but I sense they are uncomfortable talking about it or bringing it up and I get the glances of pity (which drive me up the wall ).

My daughter has a friend in the class, a very smart, sweet girl who she has known for quite a while. That girl is shielding my daughter from quite a bit of the issues so things could be a lot worse. The other girl has learned to stay away from the friend "or else". The friend has no issue telling the teacher of the bad girl's actions and the teacher believes her and takes corrective action. My daughter will not communicate to the teacher and so everything persists. I do not know how much she now perceives is "tainted" by her hatred for the girl. Any sideways glance from the girl could be perceived as mockery after you've been mocked consistently for a while.

My daughter's counselor has offered to write a letter to the teacher explaining what is going on with my daughter and why she is having difficulties with the sensory differentials (exacerbated by he blowing in the face) and the social issues. However, she has tried to speak to my daughter about dealing with the girl and my daughter becomes very agitated and upset with the idea of even being in the same room as the girl. She will not even entertain the notion that things could be handled differently and that she could learn to ignore the girl's tauntings.

The school is very small and there is no other class to change to. I have thought about pulling her out during recess but that would be very disruptive to her day and we would have difficulty transitioning her back to the classroom. I am not very adept at explaining to the teacher what is going on. Perhaps if I wrote a letter to the teacher explaining everything she would be receptive and try to understand? In my opinion, keeping the two separated is the only appropriate course of action at this point.

Hey mama - sorry Grace is still having trouble, so is DS. I want to share something interesting that happened at the last IEP meeting. We were talking about he DS perceives the other kids treat him. I was saying that perhaps he's not being bullied, but he thinks he is. I truly didn't understand what was happening and assumed it couldn't really be as bad as he said. Right?

Well, no. The speech therapist puped up and said - it isn't a matter of perspective, he is totally getting bullied. Those kids are on him every chance they get.

Now with fresh perspective, here's what I think is happening. The kids bully and DS doesn't really understand what is mean and not. His anxiety increases and he starts feeling badn but can't name it. Then, something happens that is unmistakable - and he completely loses it

Until I had a witness describe what was happening, I didn't even know where to start advocating for my child. Oncen I had a fresh perspective, I was able to see what needed to be done.

So, all of that said, is there anyway you could get someone to go in and observe, so you can get some objective info and then make a plan?

For us, I have to get him out. For you there may be a different answer.

I think that a few appropriate short articles, about Asperger and especially about Asperger and bullying, would be a very good idea, since you say the teacher is trying to be helpful and appears (fortunately) not to be one of those who don't give a crap or favor social Darwinism. I also think writing to her would be good, it will give her time to read and think about what you say without having to give you immediate feedback or defend herself. It sounds like she just really doesn't get it yet.

We all know your daughter is doing the equivalent of trying to eat spaghetti with a spork at school, one can get a little nourishment that way, but if she has a spork, it's good to offer her Spaghettios so she will get it all.

Girls are very subtle with their bullying and it starts early. I suspect your daughter is telling the truth, and she needs to be taken seriously. She may be overreacting a bit with the evil thing, but she still needs to be taken seriously.

I would tell the teacher that you think it is best the two girls stay separated in school. That you do not believe this is a difference that will be "worked out" or that will "blow over" in the short term. The teacher doesn't have to make a big deal out of it; she can simply keep the two apart. If she does have to affirmatively let the other family know that the separation is intentional, there are many ways the teacher can sell the separation without having to feel she is hurting that child. I assume this other child has friends? Then she doesn't NEED to be liked by your daughter, plain and simple, and the teacher and the child should accept that. Not everyone gets along with or likes everyone; that is real life.

I've helped my son avoid many, many kids who were bullying him. My daughter, as well. The funny thing is that the wheels of the world keep churning during those separations and the kids take in all sorts of influences and eventually the kids can reintegrate and get along just fine. Sometimes people just need time to work through that in their own heads without the pressure of trying to get along with someone they don't know how to get along with. So why force the kids to make it "today?"

In a community such as you describe, anyone different is going to be bullied in ways both overt and very subtle. Such communities put pressure on everyone to fit in; so does a standardised education. Put the two together, and you have immense pressure. The teacher's intentions may be good, but you have not described a teacher who is capable of protecting your daughter. From your daughter's point of view, this girl is evil; she is literally destroying her whole life. You reach a point, when you're tormented enough when, yes, even a glance can add to that torment - because you know, from long, miserable experience, just what that glance promises. That does not mean your torment is not real.

The fact that your daughter's back has been shoved up against a wall is very clear. That is real. The true intentions of the others involved don't even matter, once it reaches a certain point. And I still think that - for just about any of us with AS - it is likely your daughter is understating how she feels. Why am I so sure of that? The more upsetting, the more emotional a subject is, the harder it is to talk about it. The more potential there is for a fuss - when you know it is all going to blow up in your face - the more firmly your mouth is wedged shut.

And I would add, although I don't know your daughter and her judgment, nor the girl she is having problems with, I can make one general observation. I have, time and time again, demonstrated an ability to spot things in people that no one else noticed: others with AS seem to have this knack, although not all of us. I even think I understand why this is: NTs focus on various cues which most people can learn and use to deceive others, whereas those of us with AS focus on concrete details, such as actions, which give us a different angle on people. While the 'magician' is distracting NTs with their social cues, we watch the real trick play out and see what is behind the mask. In other words, I wouldn't totally dismiss your daughter's conviction this girl is intentionally being savagely nasty to her. It happens; and such people are usually great at distracting NTs with the right excuses and the right cues.

All in all, considering your description of the community (teachers, kids, and everyone else are products of the community they are a part of, unless they've arrived from someplace very different), the situation, and your daughter's reaction, I'd say it sounds to me like a very serious situation. And if your daughter is that convinced, even if you were right, you'd be risking destroying her trust if you ignore her. (Example: When I was six, I didn't want to leave my nine month old kitten to go on vacation. I didn't like the vet's. My parents forced the issue, and promised she'd be waiting when we got back. She wasn't. We were told she had a 'brain hemorrhage' while she was being boarded and spayed. All I knew was, I hadn't wanted to leave my kitten, my parents promised she'd be there when we got back, and she wasn't. The fact that was out of their hands didn't matter. Even when I found out - years later - that the real fault was the vet, who neglected his smaller patients because he hated house pets and wanted to work only with horses, cows, etc. it didn't do much good. Why? I knew he wasn't a good vet, even at six. When we drove up to leave Pollyanna there, I could hear the other animals crying in pain and fear. It didn't help that my parents ignored this and took my second cat to the same vet. Same result: his first vet visit, he did come home the same day - but he died that night. Those two choices my parents made taught me not to trust them, their judgment, or their choices. I didn't decide not to trust them; it was a lesson burned into my soul by the pain and loss of losing my cats. Your daughter's situation is different - but if something outside your control goes wrong, she may well react as I did. Once an AS kid gets that upset, there is a lot of emotion roiling around and a whole lot at stake.)