The 24 yr old, and I'm still learning

Post Reply New Topic

Help me understand the 'thought processes for these situations . . .

As I've said before, he is well educasted, but get intensely focused on his 'computer game' world and his 'game place'.

1. His house doesn't have a stove; I'm quite sure he 'knows' how to cook, my concern : if he started to cook, then go to his game , might he 'forget' there's something on the stove ?


2 His 'game place' is outside, a park away from his home. He remarks,, if asked, about how cold it is, how his skin hurts from being cold. again, I know he is smart....so, why doesn't he go inside of his house ? In an e-mail, I suggested "it may be warmer nside you home" , noresponse.

3. He is upset about ants and roaches when they get in his food (hey, I would be too). He's very adept at searchig the internet for games , , ,he does not want 'poisons' in his house (I'm along with him) . . .so, why hasn't he search the I-net for non-poisonous bug killers ?
I mentioned searching...he said"i didn't think of that"...but I know he knows there's a wealth of info 'out there' . . .I'm just suprised he hasn't thought of that.

I'm not asking y'all to diagnose him,per se. I'm intersedi n the reasoning process from the aspies on this forum. I know I'll get spectrum of results, but from that I feel I can get get a a better idea of 'how he thinks'.

Maybe I'm wrong...I look upon his behavior as a computer program....BASIC, FORTRAN, C, VisBsic, etc....I do not understand his program language,so to speak.

thank you

Sounds like he is trying to cope with the world around him by escaping in his 'computer game world' and his 'game place'.
I know I did this too at times in my life.

As I can remember of my own time in similar circumstances I was in a semi-survival mode by shutting the rest of the world out.
There might be some stuff troubling him.

I know I had trust issues with people and it could take a 6 months before I remotely started letting new people in my life. But talking about special interests without getting heavy emotions about it made that process alot easier.

Cheerfully,
Wallourdes

Probably not...or maybe. When I was 17, I used to start some hard boiled eggs on the stove and then go into my room and go online, and on a few occasions, I forgot about the eggs. When you forget about hard boiled eggs, they eventually blow up...no big deal.

When I cook the stove today, I can hear when the pan gets low on water, and I haven't forgotten about anything in many years.



It's possible he just remarked about it as an observation, and wasn't seeking a solution to a problem. People with AS are not always entirely analytical or concrete. It may also be that he just gets so absorbed in his game. I doubt he would let himself freeze to death though.



Because....he didn't think of that. If a person with AS gives you an answer to a question, it's very likely that that is the honest answer to a question.

I don't think he is analogous to a computer program, however I think programming analogous are a good way of understanding many things about social interaction and thought processes in general. The reason being, seemingly simple, second nature things are actually not so simple, and required a good deal of programming. In the first few months or our lives, starting from inception, our brain is programming itself to perform these simple tasks, such that by the time we are self aware beings, thing such as identifying objects and opening doors is second nature.

However, it really isn't, and this becomes apparent when one tries to program a computer to do such things. Seemingly simple things like human stability control really isn't so simple. Our most advanced bi-pedal androids walk no better than a 90 year old with parkinson's and arthritis. We can still not articulate concepts such as "aesthetically pleasing" enough such that a computer can decide whether most people would find something aesthetically pleasing. And to this day a computer has still not passed the Turing test, in part, because humans cannot fully articulate how they navigate social situations.

Wallourdes:

That's how I interpret his being zero'd in on his games. I know that I 'escaped' reality (stress of work and a no touch marriage) . ..I'm 15 years 8 months dry . . .

I also sense that little by little I am allowed to enter his world,,,,be a friend so to speak.
I wondered: maybe he''s'stuck' in the "be aware of strangers" that we teach our children, he's not been exposed to, or didn't /wasn't able to 'process' the parantal guidance of how to tell if a stranger is OK (as our children grow, we parents hopefully give the 'learn by example' guidance on that). I'm sure there's been the fustration/heartbreak of trying to find a friend, maybe had one, and failure.

As for emotions...Yes, I noticed quickly that actions or situations that 'bring to him or require some form of ' emotions (e.g., patience dealing with people, making a decison to be or not to be with people) send him into his 'rocking'....this seems to be his way of handling emotional based internal conflict...sit ( or stand) and rock, rock ,rock....

Chronos:

Yes, I doubt he would freeze to death . . .it just befuddles me that he would 'note or observe' how cold it is, how his body doesn't seem to like it (sore skin, flaking skin), but I guess, it isn't bad enough to do anything about it. I did suggested about being in his home, or at least outside on porch ( downwind, shielded) side of house. He still goes to the park . . .

>We can still not articulate concepts such as "aesthetically pleasing" enough such that a computer can decide whether most people would find something aesthetically pleasing.

Very interesting and quite appropos: the spreadsheet item he built is an attempt (rather complicated too) to 'grade by quantitative experience' the various games he plays: difficulty, level of detail, level of skill needed, etc. As though he is attempting to articulate 'aesthetically pleasing' , so to speak, the computer games.

Again . . .Thank You

I know it is terribly off topic, but there are actually some reasonably successful algorithms which try and determine the aesthetic nature of the human face. They track the location and size of key facial features and compare them to pre-determined ratios. They cannot predict what an individual values most, but the average public ranking and average computer ranking are close. it's an interesting problem

In terms of the cold, you would have to understand both sides of the decision. What keeps him going back to the same place, what value does being there give him, can somewhere else give the same value. These things are so much more complicated to try and describe than the cold itself.


I have to ask what you might of expected as a response, it's a hard comment to reply to. I'm sure he realizes this fact, but it may just be besides the point. If the question is Is being in the park worth being cold?, the temperature of the apartment is irrelevant.

In terms of understanding the world in a quantitative manner, if you look at many websites that review games you will find they have numerical ratings in exactly the same areas that you mentioned. To these people the number probably comes second, as an after thought, because describing the game in words comes more naturally.

The soft qualitative decision making is still there it's just a different way of describing it. Do you prefer a game with the perfect level of difficulty yet horrible visuals or one with rich detail yet is too easy to beat. You could write a paragraph describing your perfect balance, you could just pick a winner on intuition, or you could assign a number describing how much you value difficulty and how much you value graphics.

I'm aware of the facial ratios that (attempt) to designate a handome man or pretty lady . . .they tie 'appealing to look at' with hansome or pretty,

When I wrote to him about going insideof house to stay warm:
- I did not expect a written repspone
- yes, I figure it is his decision based upon his valuesas to be cold at a 'speical place' or be more comfortable in an 'unfamiliar' place. Although he's been at this house for just over a year; he is seldom theere, and sleeps outside on a cot.
"I wonder" if he does not like the house, as a structure, or feels closed in when inside . . .he spends most of his waking hors at the park . . .his 'game place' . . .

I've seen the spreadsheet he built for game grading . . . very 'scientific' in the math . . .
He wonders why his 'results' does not correspond with the grades others give to the same game. I attempted to teach him / inform him that although fancy in the math equations, the input is subject to what the grader thinks in terms of difficulty, strategies, etc. " I don't get it", he said . . .so I used his favorite food (ice cream): some people think chocolate is best, some coffee , , , ,"Oh, I didn't think of it that way".
All very interesting . . .
I have learned to commuicate these 'qualitative' thoughts of others ( taste good, bad,,,is pretty, is ugly) in little , logical, building block fashion...he seems to 'follow along' when I talk with him. I ensure the vocabulary I use is not demeaning, I use adult words and sentence structure: his is an adult . . .
My hope is to help him be comfortable with 'introductory' social skills.....how to say "Hello" when someone addresses him.....if he says that word at all, it's like I've bothered him into saying it...and obligatory voice . . .

Thanks again

As you should. Most individuals with AS have a high verbal IQ.

When you were speaking of the game sheet, it reminded me of an issue that comes up frequently in many technology sectors, which is, convincing the engineers that "better" does not always mean "technologically better". It usually means better from a whole product standpoint.



It might be that he knows he is supposed to act in a certain way, and just can't bring himself to, or really just doesn't want to because it's too stressful or too much of a bother for him. You should really talk to him about this and ask if he even wants help first.

From the way that you have chosen your words, I seem to have offended you. Apologies for that.

For what it is worth:

I find non-verbal acknowledgements are allot easier than verbal ones (momentarily meet gaze, slight smile, slight head nod, small hand wave etc.) though not technically correct it is usually enough to get the other party started with their side of the conversation. When expecting or initiating a conversation, I can do a bit better.

(head->sand) I refuse to believe you! We should probably just give it power\accuracy(jk)

Huntedman, I did not feel or sense an offense . . .

I have seen his response to either me or his mom appearance ( comming to visit him) . . .

A hand wave would be cool, a word "Hi" would be cool . . .
. . .seems we have to interrupt him to get acknowlegment of our presence.

I presume he may be the same if another person wants to meet him . . .
. .Other person says "Hi" or "Yo" or . . .
. . . no response...as though he didn't hear, or chose not to reply
. . .a few seconds before response (wait for play manuver or click a button) . . ok
. . . . but like "hello dude , did you hear me"
. . . . most people will interpret his lack of response as a turn-off...I'm outa here

I am curious as to how to ask him questions
. . .I've been told not to give answers in the question when dealing with 'anyone'
So I wonder: he sleeps outside in a cot...it's danged cold
. ..he dresses warmly
.....
Does he not like his house ?
....does he feel 'closed in' to be inside (anywhere)

I guess I could ask "Why do you sleep outside" and see where the dialog takes us
. . but I'm such a curious person....
Like if he doesn't like his house, what part of it ?
. . maybe I can show him how/ work with him to fix or repair the part he doesn't like
If he feels 'closed in' , , ,well, that;'s his feeling and I can do anything there...

Oh well, I'm rambling . . .

I had misunderstood when you mentioned it earlier, from this description it does not sound like an issue of knowing or implementing an introduction. If i had to guess, this sounds like an issue of breaking the concentration in what he is doing, and the amount of time that it takes to get back into that state of mind.

It's easy for allot of people to look up, greet you, apologize, mention that they are in the middle of something, and return to what they where doing for a second. For someone with AS, that isn't really an option. Often after just looking up and greeting someone, whatever you were working on is just gone. Also, it can take allot longer to get back into that type of focus and try to continue.

You can mention your side of the situation, but in the end it is the person's own decision to make.

I knew someone like this. I got used to walking in, explaining why I was there or asking a question, then just waiting and not expecting a response. After about 45s I would get a very detailed answer to my question, showing that it had not only been stored but processed and solved while I was waiting.



Certainly, the best way to know is to ask. But if you have a million questions, I would be careful not to ask the second question before you give time for the first to be processed and answered. It's a very easy way to get someone to give up on giving an actual honest answer.

Thank you for helping me learn . . .

I've another learning opportunity, but will post as New Thread