What to make of this behavior? UPDATED
We've been dealing with this behavior with our son for some time and the reactions seem to be getting more intense. Sometimes dh and I don't know whether to laugh or put him in a time out or what.
Any time dh tries to kiss, hug, or depending on his mood, come in the bedroom with me in there, he is ready to physically stop the affection. We get head butts into the embrace to break it up, slaps and fists in the back and butt. My son seems to be dead serious as he is doing this. No play fighting. The fists are hard and slightly painful depending on how it lands. Now as of today, it's getting to kicks.
I swear I have no idea what on earth is possessing this kid to do this.
We have asked him about it and don't get any real answer. It's always something like, no you can't do that. It doesn't matter if I initiate or my husband.
We joke about this, but I am really wondering if he will just outgrow it or it'll get worse. The "shadow" as we call him is always there watching for the most remote possibility of physical contact between the two of us.
Any thoughts or ways to discipline are most welcome
Last edited by MomtoS on 03 Jan 2011, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't think that the problem here is a lack of discipline, but more so a lack of communication.
If I understand the problem correctly, your child is trying to interfere with your affectionate behavior towards your spouse. This is likely because he has been told by somebody that affectionate behaviors are not appropriate. I am not sure where this message came from, but most likely somebody told him that he shouldn't go around hugging random strangers. Perhaps he was being overly affectionate to people he isn't related to (as is typical of a young child who doesn't understand the difference between a kiss from mommy vs. kissing a random stranger), and his teacher told him to stop it.
However, the problem is likely that he misunderstood the rule he was given. Instead of understanding the idea that he shouldn't show signs of affection to random strangers, he instead got the idea that showing any signs of affection to anybody is bad. And as such, when he sees you showing signs of affection to your spouse, he thinks that you are breaking the rule (which he sees as very unfair and aggravating because he views the rules as important). As such, he tries to force compliance with the rule (as he understands it) in order to make things fair.
Of course the solution is to sit down with him and explain the rules regarding appropriate expressions of affection with more details and explanations. Tell him which situations he should and should not be expected to show affection, when it is proper, when it is improper, etc. Explain why can a husband be affectionate with a wife but two young boys can't be affectionate with each other. Once you clear that up, he will probably better understand why it isn't a problem for you two to be affectionate with each other, and you will have less problems with your child. Do keep in mind however, that multiple explanations may be necessary, as this is a complex issue, and he may not understand everything the first time.
Furthermore, while this is not related to your question directly, I do have some advice that I hope you take VERY seriously. The next time your child acts in a 'strange' way, don't go about looking for 'ways to discipline' him in order to fix the problem. The vast majority of the time, the odd behaviors is mostly due to a misunderstanding, or a poorly met need, or some other factor besides naughty behavior. And as such, disciplining him really isn't going to resolve the underlying issue, it is just going to aggravate him, which will likely make the problem worse.
If I understand the problem correctly, your child is trying to interfere with your affectionate behavior towards your spouse. This is likely because he has been told by somebody that affectionate behaviors are not appropriate. I am not sure where this message came from, but most likely somebody told him that he shouldn't go around hugging random strangers. Perhaps he was being overly affectionate to people he isn't related to (as is typical of a young child who doesn't understand the difference between a kiss from mommy vs. kissing a random stranger), and his teacher told him to stop it.
However, the problem is likely that he misunderstood the rule he was given. Instead of understanding the idea that he shouldn't show signs of affection to random strangers, he instead got the idea that showing any signs of affection to anybody is bad. And as such, when he sees you showing signs of affection to your spouse, he thinks that you are breaking the rule (which he sees as very unfair and aggravating because he views the rules as important). As such, he tries to force compliance with the rule (as he understands it) in order to make things fair.
Of course the solution is to sit down with him and explain the rules regarding appropriate expressions of affection with more details and explanations. Tell him which situations he should and should not be expected to show affection, when it is proper, when it is improper, etc. Explain why can a husband be affectionate with a wife but two young boys can't be affectionate with each other. Once you clear that up, he will probably better understand why it isn't a problem for you two to be affectionate with each other, and you will have less problems with your child. Do keep in mind however, that multiple explanations may be necessary, as this is a complex issue, and he may not understand everything the first time.
Furthermore, while this is not related to your question directly, I do have some advice that I hope you take VERY seriously. The next time your child acts in a 'strange' way, don't go about looking for 'ways to discipline' him in order to fix the problem. The vast majority of the time, the odd behaviors is mostly due to a misunderstanding, or a poorly met need, or some other factor besides naughty behavior. And as such, disciplining him really isn't going to resolve the underlying issue, it is just going to aggravate him, which will likely make the problem worse.
Thanks Tracker for the advice. I have read most of your book and am familiar with the context of the last paragraph you posted. I asked about discipline because I didn't know if this issue is a discipline thing or communication thing. That's why I asked here as I was hoping for some insight. I know from hanging around here that with some aspies, true discipline problems sometimes aren't handled properly by parents out of fear that it is an aspie thing and to just let things be. It seems hard to make a distinction between the two many times.
The strange thing is that I have no idea where he got the concept from. I don't recall any times where he gave inappropriate affection to someone and was told not to. We are affectionate with him at home and he returns it. I always get a hug and kiss at night before he goes to sleep. His sisters kiss him. It's just between me and my husband that makes him crazy...well except when he's into his computer game. However, you can see that he's physically trying to ignore it and repress the desire to attack (we get a kick out of this, lol).
I think it is more likely that he made up his own rule in his head about what is appropriate and what is not between mom and dad. I'll discuss this with dh and see if we can come up with a united explanation to help him.
Expound please. I'm not familiar with this.
There is an old Greek story about a person named Oedipus who killed his father and married his mother. It is somewhat of an odd story, but so are most ancient Greek stories. In any case, the term Oedipal complex, as used in Freudian psychology, indicates somebody who has an unhealthy and jealous attraction to their mother, and views their father as unwanted competition for their mother's attention. It is possible that your son is jealous of the attention that other people get. Problems like this are often seen with young children who get jealous about a new baby sibling. But I don't think you need to worry about him trying to kill off his father.
And there is also the theory that your child is trying to prevent a new baby sibling.
My money is still on the bet that he heard from some place that physical displays of affection are not appropriate. It could come from any one of hundreds of sources. For example, perhaps he was watching a TV show where two unmarried adults were being affectionate with each other, and another person got upset that these two unmarried people weren't waiting until marriage. Your son may have picked up the lesson that affection between adults is inappropriate, without understanding the cultural background about waiting until marriage. And as such, he sees your signs of affection towards each other as improper, much the way my grandmother gets angry when she sees teenagers kissing and holding hands.
Whatever the problem, I still maintain that the best method to deal with it is to sit your son down and explain why physical affection between you and your husband is OK, and why there is nothing wrong with it. Explain the cultural things about affection being OK within marriage, and so forth. And see if that helps. Also, going to bombaloo's point, if you are done with having children then it can't hurt to make sure your child knows that.
OMG, I couldn't stop laughing when I read this. My son had to come running to see what was sooooooooo funny. I suppose anything's possible, but I highly doubt it. He is 5, but he doesn't watch TV shows or movies with scenes of affection and is basically only around his sisters who also don't watch TV. I don't recall PDA's being common out in public in our area at all. No other possible influences I'm aware of. Well, there are those millions of animal videos they watch and plenty of mating going on at times, lol.
I do think Tracker makes an interesting point about a possible new addition to the family. Sometimes I mention a 'what if' scenario about another baby and he says he wants a boy baby. No opposition to the idea. Deep down, part of the reason having another seems to be problematic is my son. I have always thought of him as being especially needy and having an unusually strong 'bond' with me WAY before ASD consideration was even on my radar. I may be way off base, but I can imagine him harming another baby out of jealousy due to some hints I see now. However, I don't see how his little brain would/could make the leap from a hug to a baby without some very explicit instructions (from an unknown source).
OMG, I couldn't stop laughing when I read this. My son had to come running to see what was sooooooooo funny. I suppose anything's possible, but I highly doubt it. He is 5, but he doesn't watch TV shows or movies with scenes of affection and is basically only around his sisters who also don't watch TV. I don't recall PDA's being common out in public in our area at all. No other possible influences I'm aware of. Well, there are those millions of animal videos they watch and plenty of mating going on at times, lol.
I do think Tracker makes an interesting point about a possible new addition to the family. Sometimes I mention a 'what if' scenario about another baby and he says he wants a boy baby. No opposition to the idea. Deep down, part of the reason having another seems to be problematic is my son. I have always thought of him as being especially needy and having an unusually strong 'bond' with me WAY before ASD consideration was even on my radar. I may be way off base, but I can imagine him harming another baby out of jealousy due to some hints I see now. However, I don't see how his little brain would/could make the leap from a hug to a baby without some very explicit instructions (from an unknown source).
I really just think it bothers him. When I was younger I didn't like to be touched and I didn't like when my parents hugged or kissed either because they were touching eachother and I didn't know how to respond to it.
One of the blogs I occasionally read offered this general advice on inexplicable behaviors:
http://dontmesswithmrin-between.blogspo ... id-so.html
What I like about this article is that it shows how careful you need to be in asking questions of a kid with AS; you will only figure things out if you ask the right question (I don't know if your 5yo is verbal) The flip side is that they will tend to be more upfront with information than an NT kid, so if you ask the right questions, you can trust the answers
http://dontmesswithmrin-between.blogspo ... id-so.html
What I like about this article is that it shows how careful you need to be in asking questions of a kid with AS; you will only figure things out if you ask the right question (I don't know if your 5yo is verbal) The flip side is that they will tend to be more upfront with information than an NT kid, so if you ask the right questions, you can trust the answers
Interesting article. I commend the mother for realizing there are right questions and wrong questions. However I spotted a common misconception that adults make concerning children, which is represented by this question.
"Q: OK. What if you went to Carl and said, There are too many people here. Let's go back to the house. Do you think that would work?"
If Charlie and Carl were adults, who were capable of respecting the needs of each other, this would be a reasonable course of action, however, children are not so respectful, empathic, or diplomatic.
Rather than saying something of the sort. "Sure, that'd be fine. Guys, Charlie and I are going to head back, he doesn't feel comfortable here," a more plausible scenario would be this.
Charlie: There are too many people here. Let's go back to the house.
Carl: That's stupid. They're you're friends.
Boy #2: Why do you have to be so weird all the time?
Boy #3: What are you guys talking about?
Carl: Charlie wants to go back to the house. He thinks there are too many people here.
Boy #3: Are you afraid?
Charlie: No. I just want to go back. There are too many people here.
Boy #3: Oooo, he's afraid.
Charlie: I'm not afraid, I just don't like it here. I want to go back.
Carl: Then go back.
Boy #2: Yeah, go back.
And then they collectively continue to mock him or ignore him.
Thus, I conclude, Charlie's method was more effective.
OK, so I had a chat with my son after dragging him away from one of his miniature beat downs. I sat him down and grilled him about why he hates for us to be near each other. He says, "Cuz...cuz...cuz, You're always trying to be with him, he's supposed to be with me. You're supposed to be with J and H (sisters). You can't mix."
Makes no sense to me.
I still stand by the "he made up his own rule" here.
Any other additional thoughts?
thats quite interesting! i would have thought he was jealous and wanted to keep your husband away from you, not the other way around.
could he be needing more one on one time with his father? maybe some boy time together?
another idea would be to make a concerted effort for the three of you to interact in a physically affectionate manner. keep the focus on him but with both of you involved, a giant squishy hug, a tickle session on the floor, something like that that involves physical touch and affection.
im curious, does he express physical affection with you? or is the no boy-girl interaction include mother-son affection?
_________________
Neurotypically confused.
partner to: D - 40 yrs med dx classic autism
mother to 3 sons:
K - 6 yrs med/school dx classic autism
C - 8 yrs NT
N - 15 yrs school dx AS
could he be needing more one on one time with his father? maybe some boy time together?
another idea would be to make a concerted effort for the three of you to interact in a physically affectionate manner. keep the focus on him but with both of you involved, a giant squishy hug, a tickle session on the floor, something like that that involves physical touch and affection.
im curious, does he express physical affection with you? or is the no boy-girl interaction include mother-son affection?
No, he spends plenty of time hanging out with his father. He is a natural football (American) enthusiast, much to the enjoyment of my husband who into football his whole life. They enjoy 'role playing' of games including tackling in the basement.
As for myself, we enjoy plenty of affection including hugs, kisses, and tickles.
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