Helping to curb perseverations?

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Deinonychus
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11 Jun 2011, 10:17 pm

My kiddo is at the point where he is beginning to understand what a perseveration is. He has been successful at navigating anxiety and negativity, but it seems like once he gets stuck on something there is not much we can do to help him focus on other things. Some times it gets so bad he starts to collect things and bring them everywhere with him, just so he can see them.

It is not nearly as bad as it used to be, but it does interfere with him being able to stay on task and regulate his emotions.

Any words of wisdom??



Aldran
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12 Jun 2011, 8:48 am

Hello,

You say he just wants to see them? Is that all? Or does he want to "fidget" with them as well? Be able to touch them whenever he wants? Is he getting bored when hes going out so wants something to be able to fall back on?

When I was young I always insisted on taking SOMETHING with me whenever I left the house. A bag of Legos was probably the one my parents hated most becuase they hated worrying about my losing small pieces and such (We never knew or thought about anything like Asperger's when I was a kid), of course, I never did lose more then maybe half a dozen pieces in the at least hundreds if not thousands of times I did this. I even managed to impress people with my re-constructions of Vehicles, particularly aircraft, I still remember how to build a decent approximation of a B-17 from nothing but 8-peg Blocks, AND have the legos to do it, lol.

There were loads of other things I would take out of the house with me as well for all kinds of reasons I don't think my parents ever understood (each object having its own reason to me why I was taking it). Sometimes these things were as simple as a couple different Rocks I happened to like at the time because of how they felt or looked. More often it was something that interested me for one reason or another, because I liked the shape, design, material, or w/e else. I was forever picking up bits of broken things and bringing them home..... This carried well into high school for me. My room when I finally left home was a pack rats nest of all kinds of foreign objects strewn amongst the remains of other interests of mine...... Im sure my mother had a "fun" time clearing it all out.....

Anyway, that all said, the only things I could suggest would be A: Try and talk with him about it, and realize that his reasons might be more varied and complex then you imagine, and B:Let him continue regardless, as long as you and him can come to an understanding that hes responsible for his items. I suppose you could try explaining to him that most people in the world don't do things like this, but if he's anything like I was, theres a good chance he either won't understand or care.

Finally, I never knew about Asperger's until very recently. Im speaking purely from personal experience. If your son has an official diagnosis and as a result is seeing some sort of specialist, they might have or know of methods for helping you cope with it (Because I highly doubt hes having any trouble what so ever coping with what hes doing). But when I read this, I just had to respond to it because this was something that Id never really understood about myself till recently...... IDK how this habit would affect other methods put in place to deal with asperger's. But I would suggest trying to modify things to allow it,r ather then trying to stop it. I know for me, doing this kind of thing was one of the few things I really enjoyed about going out to school, or other places at all with my parents growing up......

Thank you for reading if you have.



liloleme
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12 Jun 2011, 2:12 pm

Im kind of confused by your question. Are you asking how to distract him from his special interests so he can do his school work, ect? or are you asking how you can stop him from collecting things and or carry things around with him?



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12 Jun 2011, 8:37 pm

liloleme wrote:
Im kind of confused by your question. Are you asking how to distract him from his special interests so he can do his school work, ect? or are you asking how you can stop him from collecting things and or carry things around with him?


It isn't so much the carrying around that I worry about....it is the absolute obsession. He gets stuck on one thing and is unable to talk about anything else. His social skills go out the window when he is really stuck. I understand he will probably always have his special interest, but once he is really stuck on something, there is very little in the way of reasoning with him.

Recently is has been "leveling up" in video games. It can take a very long time to get to the next level, and he gets mad and frustrated and obsessed. He may have a melt down because his time to play is over and he hasn't leveled yet. This may include hitting a sibling or using very rude language towards others. He is a sweet loving kid, and he isn't like that. He gets upset that he can't stop thinking about it. He is disappointed when he gets to the point where he no longer has control over it. It is sad to see.

He has many other obsessions, and they seems to cycle. When he gets stuck, he is unhappy and it sucks.

We have been able to identify and work through anxious thoughts logically, but when it comes to perseverations he just can't seem to verbalize what is going on....if he will talk about it at all.



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12 Jun 2011, 8:38 pm

Aldran wrote:
Hello,

You say he just wants to see them? Is that all? Or does he want to "fidget" with them as well? Be able to touch them whenever he wants? Is he getting bored when hes going out so wants something to be able to fall back on?

When I was young I always insisted on taking SOMETHING with me whenever I left the house. A bag of Legos was probably the one my parents hated most becuase they hated worrying about my losing small pieces and such (We never knew or thought about anything like Asperger's when I was a kid), of course, I never did lose more then maybe half a dozen pieces in the at least hundreds if not thousands of times I did this. I even managed to impress people with my re-constructions of Vehicles, particularly aircraft, I still remember how to build a decent approximation of a B-17 from nothing but 8-peg Blocks, AND have the legos to do it, lol.

There were loads of other things I would take out of the house with me as well for all kinds of reasons I don't think my parents ever understood (each object having its own reason to me why I was taking it). Sometimes these things were as simple as a couple different Rocks I happened to like at the time because of how they felt or looked. More often it was something that interested me for one reason or another, because I liked the shape, design, material, or w/e else. I was forever picking up bits of broken things and bringing them home..... This carried well into high school for me. My room when I finally left home was a pack rats nest of all kinds of foreign objects strewn amongst the remains of other interests of mine...... Im sure my mother had a "fun" time clearing it all out.....

Anyway, that all said, the only things I could suggest would be A: Try and talk with him about it, and realize that his reasons might be more varied and complex then you imagine, and B:Let him continue regardless, as long as you and him can come to an understanding that hes responsible for his items. I suppose you could try explaining to him that most people in the world don't do things like this, but if he's anything like I was, theres a good chance he either won't understand or care.

Finally, I never knew about Asperger's until very recently. Im speaking purely from personal experience. If your son has an official diagnosis and as a result is seeing some sort of specialist, they might have or know of methods for helping you cope with it (Because I highly doubt hes having any trouble what so ever coping with what hes doing). But when I read this, I just had to respond to it because this was something that Id never really understood about myself till recently...... IDK how this habit would affect other methods put in place to deal with asperger's. But I would suggest trying to modify things to allow it,r ather then trying to stop it. I know for me, doing this kind of thing was one of the few things I really enjoyed about going out to school, or other places at all with my parents growing up......

Thank you for reading if you have.


I have no issues with him bringing one item when we leave...that's been our house rule for a long time. I can just tell when he is getting more perseverative when he tries to bring everything with him everywhere he goes, or tries to bring something ridiculous like a gigantic sign.



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13 Jun 2011, 3:30 am

Glad to hear you allow him to take things with him. And I can understand what you mean about him taking everything. I could suggest letting him do it at some point, take as much as he wants, but making him aware that hes responsible for all of it, damage, loss and all. If hes like me, he'll probably figure out that there comes a point of futility in lugging everything around with you, though it might take awhile for him to get that. I used to haul 70ilbs worth of books around in a back pack during school, though that had more to do with an aversion to lockers then perseverance I think. Still it kept me fit, lol.

And I guess to expand on what lil' wrote, you're asking how to get him out of his obsessions? Or are you just lamenting the problems hes facing? or?



liloleme
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13 Jun 2011, 5:32 am

The video games are hard because we (as aspies) have this need to "finish" so being close to leveling up would make one upset. From a parents point of view I understand that sometimes things need to get done, its dinner time, ect. You need to get him accustomed to a timer. It will be difficult at first and he may still get angry but most video games have a pause or save and you just have to explain that even though you understand how hard it is that sometimes we have to eat, got to school, ect. Make sure to give him lots of praise when he does accomplish leaving his game without a big fuss....just make sure that he understands the time and he has lots of warning before especially if you are going to be away all day or something like that, and be consistent. This works with my son and we have found that he actually does need a break sometimes but he does not recognize it. He gets angry with his game if we just let him play continually. As long as he has his time for his games or his special interest he will get accustomed to taking "breaks" and doing other things. Every change is going to be a struggle but once things become "schedule" than they are just accepted.



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13 Jun 2011, 3:33 pm

SC_2010 wrote:
liloleme wrote:
Im kind of confused by your question. Are you asking how to distract him from his special interests so he can do his school work, ect? or are you asking how you can stop him from collecting things and or carry things around with him?


It isn't so much the carrying around that I worry about....it is the absolute obsession. He gets stuck on one thing and is unable to talk about anything else. His social skills go out the window when he is really stuck. I understand he will probably always have his special interest, but once he is really stuck on something, there is very little in the way of reasoning with him.


I was the same way as a kid...I still am. My mom would tell me she needed brakes from hearing me talk about meerkats all the time. It would work but it made me feel as if she didn't love me and I started getting VERY depressed. The only thing that worked was LETTING me talk about my special intrests. If she was one of those parents who is so obsessed with their kids being normal and took away everything related to meerkats from me, I probably would have ended up commiting sucide. If she continued to tell me she didn't want to hear about meerkats all the time, I either would have ran away or commited sucide anyway. The only way I could focus on my school work was to incorperate meerkats into the lesson plans and using examples of how I would use said subject to study meerkats. My word problems were all about meerkats. There was NOTHING she could do to get me to stop obsessing and some of my most painful childhood memories are of her and other people telling me I needed to stop being so obsessed and "widen my horizons". I finnaly found a best friend who practicaly hero worships me BECAUSE of my special intrests and obsessions. The only thing you can really do with special intrests and not cause your child to grow up to resent you is to accept them and use them to teach.



cutiecrystalmom
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13 Jun 2011, 3:46 pm

One of the strategies I use with my son is to tell him that it is time to put {Mario conversation} in the box for a bit, then physically gesture with my hands like I am closing the lid on the box. I give it a time limit, like "let's put it in the box for 15 minutes". This is often enough to help him get "unstuck" and think about other things.

With the video games, I try to put a bit of a time limit on it. I have spoken with him about how if he is letting the video games make him forget about the other important things we need to do in order to live (ie. use the bathroom, eat, sleep), then it is definitely time to take a break. Typically I will also give him a time limit, and tell him what kind of behavior I expect when I tell him it is time to turn it off (no yelling, arguing with me, instead "okay mom", turn it off and find something else to do). He does much better when I tell him what I expect than if it is left open. Of course, generally he does really well when he knows what is expected anyway.

Just my 2cents.



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13 Jun 2011, 4:23 pm

cutiecrystalmom - I like the "put it in a box" idea! I will remember to use that. It's nice in that it is really neutral. It doesn't contain any judgement or say that the child must stop doing something that the adult finds "bad" or "annoying" it just sounds like you are saying that the topic of conversation needs a nap or something like that. Love it!



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13 Jun 2011, 4:27 pm

Bombaloo wrote:
cutiecrystalmom - I like the "put it in a box" idea! I will remember to use that. It's nice in that it is really neutral. It doesn't contain any judgement or say that the child must stop doing something that the adult finds "bad" or "annoying" it just sounds like you are saying that the topic of conversation needs a nap or something like that. Love it!


That's basicaly what my mom tried with me and it just made me grow to resent her. It also would have made me kill myself eventualy if she countinued to insist upon it.



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13 Jun 2011, 7:15 pm

MagicMeerkat wrote:
Bombaloo wrote:
cutiecrystalmom - I like the "put it in a box" idea! I will remember to use that. It's nice in that it is really neutral. It doesn't contain any judgement or say that the child must stop doing something that the adult finds "bad" or "annoying" it just sounds like you are saying that the topic of conversation needs a nap or something like that. Love it!


That's basicaly what my mom tried with me and it just made me grow to resent her. It also would have made me kill myself eventualy if she countinued to insist upon it.


What helps YOU to be able to carry on your daily activities when you are stuck? There are many responsibilities in life, and every one must find a way to focus on what needs to be done and be able to take a break from what they want to be doing. Do you have any insights to what is most helpful?



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13 Jun 2011, 7:17 pm

Aldran wrote:
Glad to hear you allow him to take things with him. And I can understand what you mean about him taking everything. I could suggest letting him do it at some point, take as much as he wants, but making him aware that hes responsible for all of it, damage, loss and all. If hes like me, he'll probably figure out that there comes a point of futility in lugging everything around with you, though it might take awhile for him to get that. I used to haul 70ilbs worth of books around in a back pack during school, though that had more to do with an aversion to lockers then perseverance I think. Still it kept me fit, lol.

And I guess to expand on what lil' wrote, you're asking how to get him out of his obsessions? Or are you just lamenting the problems hes facing? or?

He tends not to learn from things like that. If anything he will use it against me in the future lol. "You let me bring lots of stuff before..so why not now?" Etc. He is a black and white rule kid. I still think that even though he is on the spectrum, I don't let him get away with stuff that I wouldn't let the other kids get away with.



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13 Jun 2011, 7:18 pm

liloleme wrote:
The video games are hard because we (as aspies) have this need to "finish" so being close to leveling up would make one upset. From a parents point of view I understand that sometimes things need to get done, its dinner time, ect. You need to get him accustomed to a timer. It will be difficult at first and he may still get angry but most video games have a pause or save and you just have to explain that even though you understand how hard it is that sometimes we have to eat, got to school, ect. Make sure to give him lots of praise when he does accomplish leaving his game without a big fuss....just make sure that he understands the time and he has lots of warning before especially if you are going to be away all day or something like that, and be consistent. This works with my son and we have found that he actually does need a break sometimes but he does not recognize it. He gets angry with his game if we just let him play continually. As long as he has his time for his games or his special interest he will get accustomed to taking "breaks" and doing other things. Every change is going to be a struggle but once things become "schedule" than they are just accepted.


We've tried timers and warnings. Sometimes its fine, but when the perseverations/sensory is off, it doesn't seem to matter. :(



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13 Jun 2011, 7:22 pm

MagicMeerkat wrote:
SC_2010 wrote:
liloleme wrote:
Im kind of confused by your question. Are you asking how to distract him from his special interests so he can do his school work, ect? or are you asking how you can stop him from collecting things and or carry things around with him?


It isn't so much the carrying around that I worry about....it is the absolute obsession. He gets stuck on one thing and is unable to talk about anything else. His social skills go out the window when he is really stuck. I understand he will probably always have his special interest, but once he is really stuck on something, there is very little in the way of reasoning with him.


I was the same way as a kid...I still am. My mom would tell me she needed brakes from hearing me talk about meerkats all the time. It would work but it made me feel as if she didn't love me and I started getting VERY depressed. The only thing that worked was LETTING me talk about my special intrests. If she was one of those parents who is so obsessed with their kids being normal and took away everything related to meerkats from me, I probably would have ended up commiting sucide. If she continued to tell me she didn't want to hear about meerkats all the time, I either would have ran away or commited sucide anyway. The only way I could focus on my school work was to incorperate meerkats into the lesson plans and using examples of how I would use said subject to study meerkats. My word problems were all about meerkats. There was NOTHING she could do to get me to stop obsessing and some of my most painful childhood memories are of her and other people telling me I needed to stop being so obsessed and "widen my horizons". I finnaly found a best friend who practicaly hero worships me BECAUSE of my special intrests and obsessions. The only thing you can really do with special intrests and not cause your child to grow up to resent you is to accept them and use them to teach.


I understand that he needs to be himself. We let him talk about it, buy toys related to it, etc. But he also needs to learn that in life, he will need to be able to "pause" it and do something different. That doesn't mean he is bad, it is just an important skill that everyone needs. He doesn't WANT to be stuck. He tells me. It interferes with his relationships with family and friends at school if he cannot be in a conversation on someone else's topic. It makes his sensory go haywire as he gets more and more revved up and finally crashes. He will eventually learn how to switch back and forth, and he will always know that no matter what, we love and support him.



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13 Jun 2011, 8:47 pm

SC_2010 wrote:
MagicMeerkat wrote:
Bombaloo wrote:
cutiecrystalmom - I like the "put it in a box" idea! I will remember to use that. It's nice in that it is really neutral. It doesn't contain any judgement or say that the child must stop doing something that the adult finds "bad" or "annoying" it just sounds like you are saying that the topic of conversation needs a nap or something like that. Love it!


That's basicaly what my mom tried with me and it just made me grow to resent her. It also would have made me kill myself eventualy if she countinued to insist upon it.


What helps YOU to be able to carry on your daily activities when you are stuck? There are many responsibilities in life, and every one must find a way to focus on what needs to be done and be able to take a break from what they want to be doing. Do you have any insights to what is most helpful?


It dosen't bother me to be stuck. I've always been told I am "stuck" and if I ever write an autobiography and don't call it "Memoirs of an a**hole", I'm going to call it "Stuck". I avoid people to begin with and don't like talking to people but if they insist I talk to them, it better be about my obsessions or the conversation is over. I like to keep my meerkat obsession to myself now anyway. The obsession I do not mind sharing is zoology or veternary medicine. I think I'm going to be lecturing people as part of my job in the future. I don't plan to go into private practice but even if I did people are paying me to treat their pet not kiss their butt and do small talk with them. I'd be talking about their pet's treatment not about their private lives.


It always confused me that if it wasn't okay to be obsessed with meerkats, why was it okay to be obsessed with animae or Harry Potter?