My child constantly lies

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Does anybody have any advice for me please.
My 11yo boy constantly lies - and over the stupidest things sometimes.
After an incident at school, we got FIVE different versions of what happened ! !
Father was most put out by the lying and has grounded Boy for some three weeks AND has taken away his right to the computer and toys. Next morning, Boy acts like nothing has happened.
But he will also lie over dumb things, like when I asked him if the hall door was shut - he said "yes", but it wasn't.
I mean... what the hell was the point of that ????! !!
Does anyone have any insight into this or suggestions of what can be done ?

Help gratefully appreciated.

What tone of voice are you using him when you ask?

Are you mean, or sounding as if the door should be shut? If so he could be lying because your tone of voice is indicating to him that his lie better be the truth. Its a safety mechanism - you think the door should be shut, if its not i'll be in trouble, so I'm going to tell you it is.

we've been through this as well............in the end, we had to reassess the way we were asking questions to our son. he didn't really understand what we were asking....as far as retelling a story , notice what sort of questions you are asking. it is quite possible that your son is answering the questions you have correctly~you're just asking the incorrect questions.

for example: our son decided to throw a bottle of glue. the bottle broke & the glue went everywhere......we asked son: did you throw the bottle of glue? son answered no. then instead of getting angry because we knew he did it, we asked: well what did you do with the glue?....son answered: i tossed the bottle of glue.

we had a great thread about lieing a little while ago.

I will quote myself for narcissism

Ster, that example is too funny, and makes an excellent point. My son is very, very precise in the use of language, so what sounds like a lie to us is actually the specific and accurate truth to him. That is definitely a piece of the puzzle that has to be dealt with.

I've also seen kids that have a difficult time separately fantasy from reality. Much like 3 year olds, always telling the answer for how they wish things to be, and have convinced themselves they are, instead of sharing reality. Kind of like believing if something is said to be so often enough, it becomes so. I don't like to refer to what these children say as lies, either, because the underlying intent isn't subversive. But, you do have to understand what is going on if you ever want an accurate answer.

Another thing that happens is simple miscomprehension - that the child doesn't really understand what happened and, as a result, isn't able to accurately repeat it. Each version changes because the child is still trying out ways of understanding. In this situation, I've found it helpful to really break it all down, as much as possible, and discuss all the possible versions for each element.

And the last is the avoidance lie. Lying because telling the truth will create a situation either the child does not want to deal with, or feels unable to deal with. Which seems to be the one many children have to learn the hard way, by experiencing the tangled web that deception starts. The last time my son intentionally lied in a big way was last year, to some of his friends. It was one of those situations where he knew he couldn't get them to cooperate on something if he told the truth, so he invented what he thought was an innocent white lie. Well, yes, it was an innocent white lie, but as he discovered, even innocent white lies can quickly escalate and tangle you in their web, and it wasn't long before he found himself in quite a muddle, which was the point at which he brought the problem to me. I told him to fess up as quickly as possible, apologize, and deal with the chips as they fell, because anything else (he had quite a few creative solutions thought up) was only going to tangle the web further. In the end, he did the right thing AND he learned a very valuable lesson about lying. He does not plan to ever lie again; in many ways, this is one of those things you just can't teach your kids until they live it. And he has now lived it, and totally "gets" the concept of tangled webs etc. etc. I am SO glad he was able to live this lesson fairly early in his life on something that didn't cause permanent damage.

I think you should start by taking a look carefully at each small situation where you feel your son is lying, and try to figure out what type of lie it seems to be. That will dictate how to deal with it at the time. Personally, I haven't found consequences to be all that effective for my Aspie. If he understands the reason a behavior is desired, and can buy into the concept, he will do his best to comply. If he doesn't understand, he won't. So, a good sales job works better with him than anything else.

Shaggydaddy, I found your post really interesting. I never thought about it, but expressions or exaggerations could be seen by a literal child as a "lie." I don't use many, actually, I learned early on to be frank with my kids, but it's interesting to know how it could undermine the ability to teach honesty.

It's funny, because I'm trying to think if speaking simply and honestly is something I do by nature, or because my Aspie child gently and unintentionally forced me to. Lol, I honestly do not know. Perhaps a little bit of both?

Sometimes, a lie is not so much a lie as a childs idea of what the world ought to be. I don't mean, "Did you steal that?"
"no"
But imaginary friends, imaginary situations, things like that. Might be a lie, might be a sense of the dramatic.

Also, when you ask, "Who hit who first."
you might be surprised when the child says "she hit me first," that when you check it out, your kid might not be lying. This is especially true with school administrators. Protective lies (did you steal that...ans no) are one thing. Lies that establish contexts that aren't true, are sometimes an individual structuring a world as they would have it. I write fiction for a living, which is basically a lie, but I get pretty well paid for it.

Just a perspective.

Beentheredonethat

I've discovered with 9 y/o AS DD, that her "lies" are often not lies. If we forget to ask a timing-related question- or include the timing in the question, she doesn't "get it."

Example: "Did you feed the dogs?"

She'll say that she did because she did it yesterday. LOL!

We've learned to ask more specific questions:

"Did you feed the dogs this morning before you left for school?"

"Is your room currently clean?" Not "did you clean your room?"

"Have you emptied the dishwasher this afternoon?" Not "Did you empty the dishwasher?"

Jennyfoo~ Ah yes....so very, very familiar !

Triangular_Trees : The tone of voice changes as the 'interrogation" heats up. The initial question was simply an inquisitive "how did that happen/how did you do that ?". When the response was "I don't know", I think the voice went up a bit (I wasn't actually present, but I'm assuming it did by what was asked) - "That would've hurt - you MUST know how it happened". Boy also has this (I find) annoying habit of, when deciding what to tell us starting his sentence with "OK, it happened like this...".

DW_a_mom : I haven't found consequences to be all that effective either - but my husband seems convinced that they do work (sometimes it can take a long time). When you take his things off him (especially his Transformers and Yugio cards) he gets upset and cries. Go back and see him some maybe 30 minutes later and he'll be over it. The current line he's come up with (seeing as he's grounded at the moment and isn't allowed to watch TV) is "I'd really love to watch The Simpsons.... too bad I'm grounded". But even though he seems to have accepted the consequence, it doesn't really sink in because he'll do it (whatever "it" happened to be) again.

He makes me cry ! ! I don't know how to get thru to him.

Smiley, I think sometimes, when we get really frustrated because we aren't seeming to get through to our kids, that it is time to step back and take a different approach. I've been there and done that so many times! It usually takes me a while to find my way to the right change, but I am always glad when I do.

I would guess that at the core your son isn't understanding the concept of lying, or is so worried about consequences that he feels he needs to distort the truth to keep his life on track. Either way, you won't solve the problem without changing course.

While I agree with your husband that consequences take time to show effect, they will only work long run when the child properly understands what he has received the consequence for. My instinct is that your son does not. As many in this thread have pointed out, there are all sorts of common reasons an Aspie child might be thinking he is saying the right thing. Lying may be too abstract for him to properly connect the consequence to his action, AND to understand that the relationship is fair to the magnitude of his mistake. Remember, also, that consequences can't work if children feel they are arbitrary or out of proportion; if that becomes their experience, they basically give up, because the "how" of avoiding consequences has become impossible to figure out.

I wonder if you could get a better inside view by talking with your son about a fictional character, and apply the situations in which your son has lied to the fictional character instead. Then ask your son questions about what the fictional character most likely is doing, and why, and what the fictional character is feeling. You could also continue the story with a consequence to the fictional character, and see what insights your son will have for the character's reactions to that.

I don't think you can change the current consequence, because you and your husband need to provide a united front (unless you can agree on a way to let him "earn" his way out of it). But I would talk to your husband and let him know that other parents of Aspies feel a different approach is needed for this specific issue, and ask him to let you experiment with it for a while.

re: ok, it happened like this~ it sounds like he's making things up to avoid consequences....just my guess, though, as i wasn't there and can't honestly tell what his motive is.

when you undeniably know that your child has done something wrong, because you've seen it happen or have been told by a very reliable source, it is counterproductive to get into dialog about what happened. it seems to me that for your son, this only opens up more problems and leads to lying. So, if for instance, your son hit a child he was standing next to , you'd state "you don't hit other people." .....and then calmly remove him from the situation. ............too much language might simply be too much. my son has difficulty processing language when his anxiety level is high. he gets flustered & will say just about anything.

Your child knows he can't play the computer because he's grounded. So the reason he can't play is not because he hit someone, its because you grounded him. So of course the grounding won't stop him from hitting people, because in his behind is punishment is because you grounded him, not because he hit someone. I'd try saying "You can't play on the computer because you hit Johnny." And avoid the term grounded altogether

Toss - can be underhand
Throw - always overhand

Toss, even if overhand, is a more gentle "pass" and often to a close a distance.
Throw involves more effort, is a faster "pass" and often the intent is for the object to travel a great distance, or to have it hit a specific spot with intense force