Looking for some experianced opinions about my son

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Hi all wonder if I can get your opinion regarding my 2.5 year old son.

It was not something really bothering me but recently a worker in a playgroup setting commented to me how my son never talks when he is at toddler group and questioned me whether he spoke at home. I assured her he did, but I was a bit bothered by the questions she was asking me about him. On researching speech delay, I noticed that ASD was coming up alot so I read more into it.... now Im questioning whether my son might have an ASD but Im very confused as some of the syptoms he has seem to me also to be very common to lots of toddlers :/

He is shy, and will hide behind his hand when strangers talk to him or whisper an answer.
He is slightly speech delayed and does parrot a bit but this is improving recently and he has more and more spontaneous speech.
He does occasionally flap his hands or spin but only when excited not as a stim far as I can tell.
He has good eye contact with family and people he knows (seems shy with those he doesnt).
Is huggy, loving and displays empathy for others.
Loves to play with other children but does sometimes seem to invade personal space a bit.
He loves trains but plays with them as trains does not spin wheels etc, nor line toys up.
Has very good imagination in play.
He does like to hold inanimate objects in his hands (sticks etc) but not too bothered if you take them away either and only does it sometimes.
Doesnt like to join in with group songs, rhymes etc stands and watches (again I thought shyness).
Not bothered by change in routine or travelling.
Eats reasonably well.
All other milestones were spot on.
Has no apparent sensory issues.

He had an assesment by our Health Visitor today, he passed all her commands well, did a puzzle for her, gave her eye contact, told her what things in the books were she pointed out etc. She said however that he has poor concentration, although I think its because the books were very babyish and he was far more interested in climbing the doctors couch (cant blame him think I would too). She also felt that he didnt really engage with her at all despite the eye contact. I dont think the short nature of the assesment, her briskness and the clinical setting really helped, I personally found her abrupt Im not surprised he wasnt engaging with her!

Now, so speech delayed a bit, some echolia and some social issues all lead to an ASD? Or are these things that alot of toddlers have and grow out of? Im very confused. I decided to ask here as I find this to be a very positive website in amongst a raft of very scary internet information!

Thank you if you have got all the way through this post, my mind is everywhere today.

Jen

Your son sounds fairly typical to me. You probably need to watch his resistence/reluctance to engage in group settings. Keep an eye out for some of the other things. Make sure he CAN engage with others (not just people he knows well) such as Doctors, babysitters, neighbors, etc. The speech delay is not that severe in your sons age since he is echoing (a normal developmental phase) at 2.5-that seems quite normal to me.

Perhaps some others could chime in here but I do not see any red flags in your post except for the flapping and the stranger fear-these two traits can develop into more substantial issues so watch them carefully.

I have a friend with an NT son who flapped and toe walked occassionally, it doesn't always lead to an ASD. These traits can disappear in NT children, you just need to be fairly open to any further traits or frequency of those. The fact that he does well with transitions and has no sensory issues makes me think the traits he does have are not of any alarm.

While my son was clearly a bit different from other kids at 2.5, it would have been impossible, in my opinion, to actually diagnose him at that age. As you noted, too many behaviors fall within the range of normal. Looking back, I can trail it all out and say, "ah, he was always AS!," but I still don't believe it could have been said at that time.

I know there is a lot of research and talk about early intervention, but without any obvious delays there shouldn't be a need to jump on those. Well, I'll hope there isn't, because whole blocks of kids just aren't sufficiently diagnosable to warrant it, and I like to believe that at 2.5 the best thing any child can get is lots of undivided attention from his parents. When you do that, and carefully respond to what you are learning works with your one unique child, you are helping him in all sorts of wonderful ways whether he is AS or NT (nuerotypical).

If your son is AS, time will make it more apparent. And, honestly, I think you have that time. For most of us, it was entering the school system that triggered the need for identification. Our kids needed someone at the school willing to adjust a few things for them, and give them extra help in a few areas. In our family, the label was driven completely by a need we saw with schooling (we had no idea that label was going to be AS, we just knew we needed a label on the list to get help with the problem we saw).

So ...

At this point in time, besides loving your child and adapting his world to his needs as you see them, the only other thing I would recommend is being aware of some of the differences in how AS children react v. NT children, just in case any of it turns out to apply. That information will allow you to experiment a bit when it seems necessary, and not get stuck dealing with a sense of failure when standard parenting techniques just don't work (which they often don't with AS children).

First would be to note that not all sensory issues are obvious. My son was a sensory seeker, always drawn to people and stimulation. But, it turns out, it wasn't all that good for him. After a fun busy day, I would usually notice an increase in negative behaviors. So, I had to learn to regulate it a bit, regardless of how well things seemed to be going. A common issue with little ones is trouble with teeth brushing, in that it really hurts, so just try to be aware and sensitive to it. Another one can be fear of toilets (the flush is scary), which can make potty training ... interesting.

Second would be to note that AS children often need to move to self-calm. Be careful of how strongly you try to discipline behaviors just because they are annoying, or odd. There could be a purpose to those behaviors.

Third would be to understand that not all tantrums are tantrums. I think ALL 2 year olds can meltdown, a state in which they really no longer have control over themselves, but this is especially acute with AS kids, and AS kids don't just outgrow it. Do your best to identify what may lead up to meltdowns, and then avoid those triggers. That works if your child is AS or NT.

Fourth would be that say what you mean and mean what you say is triply important with AS kids. They are very literal and precise in their use of language, and cannot take a rule from situation A and apply it to situation B. At this age you probably are already well aware of how precise you need to be speaking to your toddler; I think that is true of most toddlers. But an AS child will take this to a more extreme point, and won't, again, grow out of it. So, Mostly ... never assume that your child "must" understand an instruction or "must" be capable of something just because other kids seem to understand and be capable, or just because he seems so smart it seems impossible that he doesn't get this one basic thing. He honestly, and truly, may not get it. And never, ever, change the rules mid game; I still think about this time my son was a toddler, when we said we were going to get ice cream and then decided we really should eat some healthier food first ... he couldn't behave in the restaurant at all and we left without the ice cream, he had a horrible meltdown, and I know now that it was such a big mistake - our mistake. So, avoiding that sort of thing may be a nice little gift to yourself, even if your son turns out to be a totally normal just shy child.

Mostly, enjoy your child for who he is, as he is, for a few more years. If you get overly focused on if he is AS or not, you take away precious time and attention. Move the possibility to the back of your head, and when things come up that puzzle you, maybe pull it out and see if it helps. But, otherwise, free yourself of the need to figure it all out.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 04 Nov 2010, 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You son sounds a little bit like mine.

My son is not shy, but has very little social language and very little social grace. He has no concept of personal space and is very grabby and touchy with other children.
He was also slightly speech delayed - this has always qualified him for services. He can talk a blue streak now, but his conversational language is just starting to develop.
My son flaps his arms when he is excited. It is not a stim.
My son has great eye contact.
My son is also very cuddly.
My son loves his animals. He will play with them appropriately or line them up on surfaces. They are about two dozen that are in a pile on my desk as I am typing - I don't know why he did this outside of that I suggested he'd made a pile with three animals.
My son only gets upset about people taking odd things away from him if he's tired or overwhelmed.
My son will join in songs now. He did not when he was your son's age (he is three - his birthday is in August). He actually got very annoyed when people would try to sing with him. He's a bit of a show off.
My son is not bothered by changes. He handles them better than I do (I also have AS).
My son is not an eater unless it falls into certain textures.
All of my son's other milestones were at normal times, though some he was far ahead of the curve.

You're his parent and if there's something up, you will know. My husband and I always knew that our son was very different. We weren't totally sold on the Autism diagnosis until he was a little older and looked into it a lot more. And most people who have children with Autism where we live have a very difficult time recognizing that our son does also - he's very high functioning and adapts to situations very rapidly in most cases. He looks really terrible if he is around very large groups of children. I observed him in a room of about 40+ children and he appeared to be severely impaired. I had never seen him look that awful. He was totally overwhelmed. I've never seen him look like that prior to or since that experience.

You might considered looking into Early Intervention in your area. Have someone come and evaluate him and see what they think. It can't hurt, and it's usually at no charge to you. I have a girlfriend who had some similar concerns about her son and broke down when he was about your son's age and requested and evaluation. He didn't qualify for services and she was relieved.

He could just be shy. It wouldn't hurt to help him over this. Ask if those who lead/supervise the playgroup can help him integrate with the other children better.

You can also "introduce" him to the other children.

Take him by hand over to one of the kids who knows you and say

"Hi (kid's name). Are you playing with the (whatever)? Look (your kid's name). (Other kid's name) is playing with (whatever). Doesn't that look fun?"

Hopefully at this point your kid will nod yes. Then you say.

"Why don't you and (other kid's name) play together?" and then take his hand guide him to engage.

It's easiest to do this with acivities that kids are really interested in. I was at the park once and one of the mothers had brought this balloon toy, which was this hand air pump with a bag of long balloons. She would pump up the balloons, aim them upwards and let them go and they'd shoot into the air as they deflated. The kids loved it and eventually all of the kids on the playground had lined up to get a chance to do it and they started cooperating amongst eachother keeping track of who's turn it was and where the balloon went and so on.

Thank you so much for your replies, I really appreciate it.

I believe IF there is something there I want to be able to help him as much as possible and early intervention seems to be key in AS (from what I read anyway). The health visitor today is referring him for speech therapy to be assessed more so will take it from there.

I honestly dont know if he is AS (is so probably mild) or not, to me he is just my happy, smiley little boy.

Jen

When there are communication issues involved, or severe difficulty interacting, yes, it seems to make a big difference. Kind of catching the child before he has closed off too much. When the child is clearly engaging with his family, I'm not under the impression it makes that much difference.

I guess the other thing to know about AS is that AS kids can and do shut down parts of themselves at very early ages, as a self-defense mechanism. My son has described doing this to me; he remembers those conscious decisions that actually become integrated into his subconscious. And I observed him start to do it in a more extreme form in his early school years. He was getting frustrated and I could literally see him start to give up, shut down, and turn off. Anything that avoids these triggers is important; you don't want your child making a retreat he cannot come back from. But remember that those retreats are reactionary and self-defensive. If your child isn't overloaded by the world or situations, he shouldn't need to make them. The problem, of course, being that AS kids can be severely overloaded by things we don't even see or notice, which is why tuning into your child is so overriding to me, at that young age.

All theory, of course; just what I've observed. With high functioning kids, we don't know how much difference it all makes. I only know that today, 9 years down the road, my son is effectively in the same place as my friends son, who went into OT when he was 4 for sensory issues, long before we had any clue our son had many of the same problems. That boy is still more severely affected by his sensory issues than my child, but both are great students with friends and active lives. But I've spent a lot less time and money on specialists

Hi Countess thanks for your reply. Can I ask how your son reacted in the large group of children? My son stops talking when he visits this one very noisy busy toddler group. He will still talk to me and play happily with toys by himself and is always keen to go, but its the not talking when there that started me down this route. It has crossed my mind if he might have selective mutism.

Thanks

Jen

I should clarify. I don't mean to say, "don't follow through," or "don't investigate" if you have concerns. I think what I was responding to, more, was a sense of intensity I saw in your post, worry and confusion, and it is THAT which I'd like to help you let go of. I've got a lot of friends on this road, and everyone responds to it differently. But I've noticed that is really easy to get caught up in a cycle of therapies and tests and this whole feeling of "I have to or ..." Those parents seem to be missing how much it is they can accomplish with their child just by being there for that child, and getting down on level with that one unique child's needs and interests. They take on a lot more stress, and a lot more financial cost, and you can see them running on this treadmill they are afraid to get off of. But, the reality is, they aren't getting outcomes for their kids that are any better than the outcomes being achieved by parents who've focused more on their one unique child, been aware of how ASD affects the child, and sought outside intervention for the specific areas they have identified as the most important. Some parents don't have the luxury of doing either: they can't afford the treadmill, and they have to work too hard to be there one on one enough of the time to really know their child. For them, getting the right strategy that they can access is really important, because their choices are so limited. But it sounds like you have choices, and like you are very much in tune with your child, and I think you and your child will find a lot more joy if you take the slower road.

Thank you for your input
I am lucky enough to be a stay at home mom and I do alot of one to one with him, and you are right I am very worried and confused at the moment! I have several real fears with him being diagnosed as having an ASD, one is that he will be labelled by others and therefore treated differantly, and that he will struggle in some aspects of his life as he grows older and more aware that he is differant.
I sound really negative about ASD and I dont mean to, before he was born my husband and I discussed all things and always said we would always love him just the same no matter what. So part of my reason for being on a positive forum like Wrong Planet is try shed some of the overwhelming negative way Im feeling about this right now.
I have thought of nothing but this for 3 weeks now, its having a negative impact on my relationships

Sorry for venting!

This is one thing you never have to do here, apologize for venting. If you can't vent here, where CAN you vent? So, no worries.

Take a deep breath and remember that you are already giving your son the most important things he need, whatever label he turns out to have - or not have. If he has ASD, there will be times you'll have to dig in deep and find every reserve you have, but that day is not today, and you can't worry about what isn't here and now. It may sound cliche, but our kids grow so fast, and you don't want to lose precious moments fretting over things that are outside of your control. And, well, the potholes that will come into any child's life ... they are outside of our control. You try to keep your eyes steady on the road so that you can fix your steering when they loom ahead, but otherwise you just keep driving and singing silly songs to your child in the backseat so that the trip is a pleasure.

while some things in your description may be true of some autistic kids, its not screaming at me like some descriptions we see do. of course, i may not be a good person to ask, since my own son is most definitely autistic, and for the first 3 years of his life, every time it was suggested (multiple times by family and friends), we said no way. whoops heh.

for me, one key point was in doing research and learning what the diagnostic criteria are and learning how that presents as traits in autistic kids. one reason we didnt think autism for so long was because we really had no true idea what it looks like in a high functioning child like ours. i babysat a lower functioning autistic boy when i was in high school, but silly me missed the whole spectrum part of it so i didnt even recognize it when it was sleeping in my bed every night.

one thing about sensory issues, keep in mind that its not always about how sensory input bothers our kids, but about how much sensory input they need. my son really doesnt do too badly with sensory things along the lines of touch or noise, but he is a major sensory seeker, oral and tactile. he NEEDS more input than most kids, he leans, he lays, he touches everything, toys are always in his mouth. recently he started chewing/sucking on his hands (hes 4y 9m so past the usual age of that). he absolutely must lick wet cars windows and steel posts too simply beg to be kissed or licked. hes always had most of these behaviors, it just wasnt considered weird until he was old enough that it would have already stopped in a typical child. eating sand at 18 months was adorable and picture worthy, licking wet cars at 4 yrs old still makes us laugh but its undeniably autistic and not typical.

Hi Jenz-

Welcome to WP. My son is 5 yrs old, and was diagnosed at age 2.5 with PDD-NOS/possible Asperger's. Of course none of us here can diagnose your son, but I will be happy to describe how my son was at 2.5 yr of age. The description of your son does not sound too alarming to me. It sounds as though he may just be slightly speech delayed, and the speech therapy just may jump start things. But again, I don't know your son, so I can't know for sure.

Anyway, my son was significantly delayed in all of his physical milestones. He didn't crawl until 14 mos. Didn't walk until 21 mos. He had language at 10 mos old, but we soon discovered that he was not really communicating in a back and forth fashion with us. He was mostly "talking at us". He did do a lot of the echolalia (repeating) " I would ask him "Do you want to go outside?" and he would say "Do you want to go outside?" But, echolalia is somewhat normal up until about 36 mos of age, so I wouldn't let that totally alarm you, but I would keep my eye on it. My son also reversed his pronouns. Instead of saying "I want something to eat" He would say "You want something to eat"
He also never called out "Mom" when he was upset in the night even though I knew that he could say the word Mom.

My son started flapping his hands at 1 yr of age. He would lay on the floor and stare at the ceiling fan and flap his hands. He still flaps now, but mainly just when excited, not necessarily as a stim. My son would also shake his head back and forth as if he was saying "no"

The biggest indicator for us was his total lack of interest in his peers. He never really played much with toys on his own either. Now at 2.5, I think that is pretty common for children to do lots of parallel play. I wouldn't be too concerned about that for your son at this point. Now that my son is 5, and still does not play with other children, it is VERY apparent that something is going on with him. I would say that by 3-4 yrs, if he is still not engaging with other kids, then it would be a concern.

The other thing with my son is that he really had a difficult time with fine motor skills. He never wanted to do crafts or things that involved using his hands too much. He always seemed to have difficulty responding to verbal directions.

Now, the things that didn't seem like ASD to me with my son are these:

My son always had good eye contact
He was always very cuddly and loveable
He smiled and had words on time
He didn't rock or bang his head or spin or line up toys.
He didn't seem to have to follow routines/seemed somewhat flexible
Never really had extreme meltdowns.

But, if you view my son in a room with 20 or 30 of his peers, you will see a difference.

Now, I too believe that 2.5 is probably too young to diagnose. However, with my son, the extreme physical delays was what had me so concerned and led us down the path to the diagnosis. PDD-NOS is on the autism spectrum. It is Pervasive Developmental Disorder. It is usually given to children who present many autistic symptoms, but who do not fall into Aspergers or Classic Autism.

I think it is okay to go ahead and have your son work with a speech therapist. It will not hurt him, and if the speech therapist picks up on other things, she will probably encourage you to seek an evaluation with a doctor. In the meantime, try not to worry so much. I know that is easier said than done, but it will not help or change a thing. I know it is hard though because I am the world's biggest worrier! LOL!

If your son does have ASD, then you are doing the right thing to get early intervention. My son is progressing just fine, although I am not going to say it is all a bed of roses. He still does not play with other kids, but he is very social with adults, and he speaks in full sentences, and he seems to be learning just fine.

If your son is diagnosed, then I hope that you will continue to come to WP for support and encouragement!

Hang in there! I know this is a very scary time for you, but you will make it through this!

I also forgot to mention that my son does not have real extreme sensory issues with sound or touch.

He is also a very good eater, and has never been fussy with food from the time he was born!

I would say this - in a small child, diagnoses are fluid. Development does so much for so many kids, and it's difficult to predict what things kids will grow out of and what they won't - I don't think anyone sees an early diagnosis as set in stone. The things you are seeing are too vague at the moment - but if you have the resources to get them checked out, I'd do it, if for no other reason than to set your mind at ease.

The label is important if it offers a legitimate explanation for otherwise obvious differences and opens the door for understanding; if your child grows up with no odd behaviors you feel need to be explained chances are the label doesn't apply. As our therapist said at our last 504 meeting - it's better for DS to label himself Aspergers than it is for him to be calling himself cuckoo, crazy, weird, stupid, etc. (or, even worse, for other kids to be doing so.)

It's also important to remember that while AS can be a disability, it is primarily a difference - and the difference is really wonderful. Read the "kids say the darndest things" post stickied at the top.

A poster here wrote an e-book about his own experiences - while this certainly doesn't apply at the moment, it might be good to have an idea about what it's like from the inside: Congratulations! Your Child Is Strange

He was back and forth between being completely shut down (he didn't talk much when I was present, and I don't think he ever did when I wasn't there - they acted like he didn't anyway) to having a terrible fit. All he wanted to do was play with the toys which you could see everywhere in the room but he wasn't allowed to touch (this was a pre-school setting - not a playgroup). When we were broken off further to the smaller groups of kids, he did start talking to me, but wouldn't play with the other children. He also got very frustrated that the other kids were playing with me and would walk away, find a new toy and try to distract me with it. Once playtime was over he went back to being a wreck.

He was at the end of that day able to sit on a merry-go round with several other children but it was not a very good place for him to be, I removed him after that experience.

My son had gone to another program before the pre-school, and he'd done much better with the kids there. He didn't talk to them or play with them, but several of them would approach him and join into his play which he always tolerated. There was also one girl in his class who was very fond of him and would lead him around by the hand everywhere. He was known to hug her or lean on her. There was one other child he seemed to like that liked him, but that was it. He loved going until the end, but there was a problem with one of the teachers which I won't get into.

Hope this helps. Please don't hesitate to ask anything. Everyone here is very helpful.