Help me communicate with school please

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My daughter is in 3rd grade. She loves math and has always been good at it. With math facts though, she doesn't have them memorized but works them out with tricks in her head that take time. On all of her math papers she has been making 100+ (sometimes curved because others don't get them all right). But it takes her HOURS to do them! Most days she brings class work home because she didn't finish it in class. BUT she loves math, and when there are no word propblems she mostly enjoys doing the problems.

However, I received an email from her math teacher-here is an excerpt:
"The week the students return from Spring Break, they will have an oral test over all of the multiplication facts (0-12) from memory. (Teacher) will pull each student aside and test the students individually. This will be entered as a test grade.

I know this sounds like a pretty daunting task, but if the students have been practicing their facts, the test should be pretty easy for them."

They must have told my daughter this on Monday because she was crying when I picked her up from school, cried for 3 hours and I finally had to give her a Vistaril pill to get her to calm down. Tuesday morning and this morning she cried and said she was too sick to go to school. She is having serious anxiety over the "threats" they are making with regard to this test.

We practice math facts A LOT but her mind doesn't work that way. Some she has memorized because she has a trick in her mind she uses. Others we have worked on incessantly with no retention.

What would you do?
Would you email back and let them know this sort of pressure doesn't motivate your child?
Here is the response I have written but I don't feel I am explaining everything correctly:

"On Monday when I picked Grace up from school she started crying and cried for hours. I asked (teacher) if something happened and she couldn't think of anything. On Tuesday morning and this morning she cried and said she was too sick to go to school. I have not seen this strong of school refusal in her in a long time. The only thing I can surmise is that it is math stress.

We practice math multiplication facts a lot but she still doesn't have her addition or subtraction down (still uses her fingers and ticks in her head). All I can do is practice with her-all I have is her abilities to work with.

If you give Grace time she will work the problem out correctly in her own way.

When you time her or put pressure on her she gets anxious.

She told me last night she will have 3 seconds to answer each multiplication problem. Then I had to give her the talk about doing the best you can and if that means she fails a test then that's ok.

I don't know what else to do at this point.

Trust me when I say this: for every hour you are teaching her math at school we are spending at least two at home trying to figure it out in a way she understands.

I realize many students will respond to this pressure but Grace will become anxious and do a poorer job. This is just to help you understand what motivates her. Grace takes school grades very seriously. I am just concerned that a failure like this could seriously shake her faith in herself and her view on school in general."


Your input would be appreciated. They know she has AS but I don't know if this is an AS issue per se. It might be in the sense that she becomes much more seriously anxious over things like this. I don't know whether just to have the test happen and deal with the aftermath? Her anxiety is only going to get worse leading up to the test.

Thanks for any input!

My son is 10 and his teacher has modified or omitted the tests which require him to make a quick response, such as oral tests. We didn't have to ask for this, the teacher recognised that the style of testing put him at a disadvantage and didn't let him demonstrate his abilities.

Perhaps you could ask that she omit this test and instead take another test more suited to her as an individual? If they know she has Asperger's they surely must recognise that this would be a reasonable adjustment.

This does sound a bit like an AS thing. I can certainly relate to the way your daughter is learning maths. More specifically, when I was given the (oral) test with the multiplication tables, I hadn't memorized any of them. I worked it all out in my head, quickly enough to get a passing grade. I think the teacher found it odd that I was so slow, when I had been so good at maths, but she didn't really question it further. Of course, this was years ago when learning disabilities weren't so well known.

To this day, I don't know the multiplication tables by heart, and even additions I still often have to do by ticking off.

Perhaps you should tell your daughter that a multiplication can be done under 3 seconds even when ticking off, especially if you use a couple of tricks to speed it up (involving tens, and subtracting for example). Maybe you could practice with her, and see what kind of times she gets. Unfortunately, there's little time left.

If I had to hazard a guess, I think that your daughter's anxiety is partly because she fears being 'found out', because she has been using 'tricks' to do the multiplications instead of learning them by rote memory, and she believes that the teachers will find this to be unacceptable.

At first glance, there's nothing wrong about that. Why would you memorize something if you can just work it out in your head? That's a waste of memory. (In retrospect, memorizing it means you're faster when you need those results for more complex calculations.) I also never memorized all the maths formulae, such as the A-B-C formula for solving quadratic functions, or physics stuff and the like. I could just work them out when needed.

Mama

First, I think your response is good and that responding by email is appropriate. One thing I would suggest is that you state right up front that you would like for the testing method to be modifed for dd. Give an example of what you think would be more a appropriate method like allowing her to do it written instead of orally (if that works better for her) and asking that she be allowed to take more time, like doing 0-3 in one block of time then a break followed by 4-7, etc. Then follow with the rest of your letter which explains well why you think this modification is necessary for her. She might eventually be able to memorize this stuff but it would seem that she has not gotten there yet. It would be such a shame for her to fail because she is simply not at the same developmental level on this task as her age peers. Good luck!

Her response to the situation might be AS related, but her issues with math have to do with a math-related learning disability, not AS per se. Many individuals with AS are gifted in math, so the specific issues she's having with math are not due to her AS. Since she is having so much difficulty with math (has she been tested for possible dyscalculia?), she should probably have accommodations enumerated on her IEP, including extended time, and whatever else she needs to ease her anxiety around testing. Check the IEP - if the extended time isn't there, you need to add it for the future. If it is, you need to remind the teacher, so she abides by the terms of the iEP in providing the accommodations your daughter needs.

If the IEP does not have provisions for extended time yet, assuming that you have already sent the email, wait to see how the teacher responds. If there is a useful response, that's good. Remind the teacher that Grace processes information differently from typical kids, and in math, more slowly. If, as with many kids with Asperger's, Grace is a perfectionist, tell the teacher that Grace's perfectionism slows Grace down (if this is true - it's true for so many!) because her need for perfection trumps her need to complete the tasks at hand. Pressuring her to complete the problems, or to "move faster" will invariably have a counterproductive effect, and she needs to be allowed to do work at a pace that is comfortable for her - otherwise she will be unable to perform at all. These should all be SDI's (specially designed instructions) in Grace's IEP, so that if issues come up in any class, the SDI covers it. It is helpful if you have places in an evaluation that you can point to where it supports what you're saying.

Good luck - and make sure that if you have any of the conversation in person or by telephone, you follow it up with a note (email is great), confirming the content, so you have documentation.

Hi Mama -

This is a tough one as I know there is no IEP so they don't have to do anything.

For DS, in the course of testing it was uncovered that he has a severe processing speed defecit, so for him it is an actual, specific learning disability. Then when you couple it with anxiety, you have a disaster. This is a very common AS combo.

For my DS when he was working on times tables this is what the accomodation looked like:

He requires extended time per problem (3 seconds is not ok), problems given to him in managable chunks (so he is not to be given a whole page of problems at once, typically a row at a time) and he is to be given only enough problems to prove mastery. Just giving more time is not fair, if the child is working three times longer.

My DS shuts down and becomes unresponsive when you give him a whole page, even when he knows it.

Hi, Mama! I haven't been on in a while. You don't mention if Grace already has an IEP or if the school is aware of everything.

My son didn't have the same issues, but they did modify his assignments for him.

In this case, I would suggest that you firmly request that the test be modified for her. I would suggest that she is given less questions in the same time period. She may only be able to handl 5 in the allotted time period. This could be the end of the test or it could be 5 per day in the allotted time period until she has attempted to answer all of them. I would insist on this.

The school might be very cooperative and have even better modification suggestions...if they work with you, great. If they don't, hound them until your daughter gets what she needs.

What do you mean by "math facts"?

Does she not memorize the multiplication tables for example?

First, talk to the teacher and explain that the anxiety of having to perform in such a situation will negatively affect her scores.

Second, ask if there is a way for her to demonstrate mastery of the standard through a different means of summative accountability. This summative will be an unreliable assessment due to the accessory factors of stress and environmental differences unless the teacher has been specifically training them to do this. This is not testing her maths ability; it is testing her rote memorization.

Third, if the student has a diagnosis or an IEP ask for an alternative assessment, or modifications, be made available.

Fourth, speak with the school social worker about the child being asked to spend an innordinate amount of time on homework.

Fifth, I know a way to do multiplication on my fingers. PM me if you are interested.

Yes, math facts are the multiplication tables and addition and subtraction facts. She can memorize some if she comes up with a clever way to remember but just the rote memorization of the facts is proving difficult. I don't quite understand how her brain works exactly but her testing showed some extreme deficits in the area of memory. Her immediate recall is superb and she can also recall obscure things but delayed memory and working memory are areas of extreme weakness for her in comparison to the rest of her cognitive abilities.

Don't get me wrong-she is excellent at math! When given a page of multiplication such as XXXX multiplied by XX she can work it out. When given a page of divison she can work it out. Her accuracy is phenomenal but her speed is very, very slow. I expect this would improve over time but as with other things, she takes longer to achieve the self confidence to go fster and not worry about mistakes.

Yes, she is a perfectionist!

I still haven't sent an email bcause I am second guessing what I want to say. I really try to avoid special considerations for her, especially if I feel she can "work around" the issues. We spend an inordinate amount of time working over all the things she does at school and while once she knows it, she knows it, it can sometimes take longer for that knowledge to set.

I just feel that this "speed" test does nothing beneficial, even for the NT kids. It adds enormous stress to these kids! While the other kids may be worrying a bit about it, we are regressing with my daughter after all the positive work we have accomplished in getting her to somewhat like school and feel safe there.

So...I just had a thought.

What about;

"my daughter seems to have dispportionate test anxiety. She's literally making herself sick over this. Frankly, I don't think that at this stage in her development, it's the hill I want to die on. I would like to keep her home on test day, and have her do an alternative test either at another time or at home with me. She's just not ready for any of the consequences."

This way, you are just buying time and not actually asking anyone to teach differently. You are also not tap dancing around it.

I actually thought of that. If I just keep her home on test day and request that the test not be made up I wonder if she would get a zero? And I want to ask them how would one zero test grade affect her overall score when she gets all 100's anyway. That's a great idea---I am going to look into it!

DS has the exact same issue, fortunately for us our school is somewhat test-panicked, so they made all kinds of accommodations for testing without us needing to intervene.

Many kids on the spectrum have learning disabilities, and I do believe they are related to the spectrum. In math, one of the major issues is that in the earlier grades, it is really an exercise in LANGUAGE and in communication, and that is definitely a spectrum trait. For instance, DS cannot wrap his head around the fact (even though he knows and understands the IDEA) that 7 X 8 = 8 X 7 and if he knows one, he automatically knows the other - they are two separate unrelated things in his mind.

I think Kaluiamom has one good strategy.

Another might be this: "As you may know, DD has (whatever diagnosis.) Most children on the spectrum struggle with communication issues; they have particular difficulty processing spoken instructions and also in articulating their thoughts. My daughter has particular difficulty in this area when it comes to math; for this reason, I would like my daughter exempted from the upcoming oral exam.

I would be willing to meet with you and discuss possible alternative ways to test her skills."

I don't think you need to discuss her state of mind, etc.

This is so true! Grace know "six times eight is forty eight" because it rhymes. But if you ask her eight times six she doesn't know. It's these tricks (like rhyming) plus other things she associates that helps her remember. But she also is having anxiety and now we are having setbacks to the point where if I ask her 2 x 2 she is looking at her hands to figure it out---even though she knows it.

Also, can I ask why you wouldn't include her state of mind? I drafted a new email but I am going to sleep on it before I send it. Here it is:

"Since this test was announced, Grace is literally making herself sick over this. I would like to keep her home on test day, and possibly have her do an alternative test at another time or find out if a zero on the test would greatly impact her overall grade.

I'd like to figure out a way that we can have her display some mastery without the pressure and threat of a time limit due to her impaired processing issues. I assure you I have been working with her and will continue to do so. She does very well when given enough time but the pressure of this impending test is causing a setback in what we have worked so hard for: decreased anxiety and decreased school refusal.

I will continue to work with her and if she feels confident to take the test we can go ahead with it. But I'd like to ease her anxiety in the interim by telling her she doesn't have to take the test. Hopefully this will ease some of the school refusal issues."

What do you think?

I like it, it's fine.

Also, this is a little private school and the teacher knows both of you well, correct? I know for me, once I have a strong relationship with the teacher, they are good about just hearing what I say my kid needs. I don't need to justify it.

I would change this:

I will continue to work with her and if she feels confident to take the test we can go ahead with it. But I'd like to ease her anxiety in the interim by telling her she doesn't have to take the test. Hopefully this will ease some of the school refusal issues."


to:

I will continue to work with her. If she feels better and stops the school refusal, I will allow her to take the test. But, I need to ease her anxiety in the interim by telling her she doesn't have to. Hopefully this will ease some of the school refusal issues."

IMO, the real issue - and the one the school is most likely to understand - is that she's being asked to do something that is beyond her ability. Her anxiety is an effect or result of being asked to do something she can't do, and is a natural reaction. If somebody asked me to balance plates on my head without breaking any, I'd be anxious - even if I might have the capacity to do it.

You know your school best, but I've found that they are more likely to respond like I'm a PITA if I discuss my son's emotional state than if I discuss specific needs and the accommodations that I think will address those needs. It's not that I never bring up my son's emotional state - but I've learned it's tangential to the discussion, not central to it. If I need to explain what symptoms I've observed to illustrate the issue I'm bringing to their attention, I'll mention anxious behavior. I try to be as matter-of-fact and brisk about it as I am able to muster (I just posted a similar issue not long ago.)

I know that YOU are most concerned about anxiety, as you should be - but in my experience (again, YMMV) schools are focused on education and results, and less on the kids' emotional well-being than I think they should be. I will admit, my advice is heavily biased based on bad experiences with our school - I've found that the more I discuss emotional fallout, the more they give me that "helicopter parent" face, as though I am "rescuing" my son rather than trying to get his needs met.