"It isn't fair"

Post Reply New Topic

My son, who is 9 and has AS, has always required very clear, detailed explanations of why his dad and I require him to do anything. Recently he has become more resentful about the fact that there is often a discrepancy between what we do and what we require him to do; for example, he needs to go to bed earlier than we do.

In that case, I've tried explaining that adults typically need less sleep than children, that he seems to function better during the day when he has gotten x number of hours of sleep, and that line of reasoning, but ultimately it comes down to "it's not fair that you get to do something that I don't get to do." The fact that we have a different set of rules to follow than he does really doesn't make sense to him and he doesn't accept the kinds of well-reasoned arguments that have satisfied him in the past. I realize that's probably the case for most NT kids at this age too, but I'm at a loss for how to deal with it because in his case it results in meltdowns instead of begrudging compliance.

Does anyone have any advice in this regard? I am not sure how to get past this.

BTW, I've been reading Wrong Planet off and on for quite awhile but this is the first time I've posted. If I've missed a post about this topic, I'd appreciate any pointers!

Ambiguous explanation:

Functioning better because of more sleep translates into: IF I as a child function better with more sleep so should Adults, too. Therefore, it's not FAIR, you want me to go to sleep because IF YOU do not.

Tangible explanation: an explanation based on child development to adult development. Basically, you, as an adult, have finished physically and mentally developing. He has not. IF he is receptive to visuals, words, patterns , or a special interest etc... use any and all options as a means to explain.

TheSunAlsoRises

I suggest finding a library book that talks about why people need varying amounts of sleep because of age and other reasons. Either that or find a medical website or an article or something like that.

Sometimes Aspies need to have things sourced for them from an actual document as opposed to taking your word for it, especially if they are concerned that they are treated unfairly.

You can probably think of other things that differ between children and adults that he already accepts as fact (and ideally skew in his favor.) Children can play all summer and adults have to work...or something like that. This might help him better accept the notion that things are not always equal, but it does not mean that they are unfair. Somethings are better suited to adults, and some things are designed for kids.

That's about the same age "it's not fair" started with my son. My DS- now 11, still uses it sometimes, but not nearly as much.

I think its a combination of developmental, anxiety, and obsessive thinking for my son.

We tried explaining in detail why it was fair/logical. We tried sympathizing. We tried grounding (didn't know about the AS at the time). We tried "Some things in life aren't fair." We tried humor. One day last spring (age 11) my son had an epiphany... he was going on about a toy at the store he couldn't buy and it not being fair. https://www.wrongplanet.net/postp417697 ... highlight= (I posted about it here) and he finally explained that he knew he couldn't buy it but he couldn't stop thinking about it. When it gets to this point, the logic is no good and the coping skills have to come in. Here is another post about obsessive questioning that sound's similar to your son's "it's not fair" http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4674016.html

I guess I don't really have an answer, but I think figuring out what's behind the "its not fair" is the first step.

I don't know if this would work for other kids, but it does mine.

"It's not fair!" is responded to with "No, it's not fair. It's also not fair that some kids do not have enough to eat, a home to live in, or shoes that fit their feet. Sometimes life is unfair to your disadvantage and sometimes to your advantage. When you are a grown up, you can make whatever rules you want in your own house. But even then sometimes things are not fair."

Like I said, it might not work for all kids, but since it works for mine, I thought I'd throw it out there.

Maybe tell him that when you were a child, you had an earlier bedtime, and that when he's an adult, he'll get to choose his own bedtime?

I doubt it'll work. To a child, "when you become an adult" is so far off into the future, it might as well be never. So, you're essentially telling the kid "you'll never get to choose your own bedtime". Sounds very final and ominous,doesn't it? Now. imagine hearing the same statement from someone bigger than you and holding nearly limitless power over you.

Honestly, I don't know what to recommend. But I did want to point out the fallacy in playing the "when you become an adult..." card.

It worked for me. Surely I wasn't the only child who could grasp the difference between "in a number of years time" and "not EVER!"?

I get that from my kids at times. I often give reasons why it has to be that why. But if it's repeated, I usually respond with, "You're right. It's not fair." I ask my son, "Do I like having to always make your dinner?" "Do I get to go on as many vacations as ___?" "Do I like having to be at work at 8am?" He answers 'no' and I say--'See. Life isn't always fair or what we want.' I reply, 'But it's the life we have, and parents know some of the things you really NEED, and that's what we should be happy with. I know you need sleep right now, so please try to be happy about that or at least understand it.' I then tell him I can't run around screaming it's not fair about everything that I have to do. It usually stops any 'not fair' stuff for awhile. He sees he's not the only one doing things he doesn't want to do.

As a kid I couldn't stand any sort of "because I said so" explanation." The more information the better. I didn't understand the idea that a parent had authority and had the right to just tell me to do something for no reason, but I might have understood that they knew something that I didn't, if they had explained that and then explained what it was.

I have to say I'm totally appalled that you received these answers:





Based on responses now I'm not clear on whether the point here is to help your son understand, or to knock down his ego. Parents, do you understand that when your children have meltdowns it isn't because they're deliberately oppositional?

You are making assumptions about me and my kids that are completely irrelevant here. My kids are nowhere near meltdown when these conversations occur, nor are they oppositional, deliberately or otherwise. They are simply walking around the house complaining that this and that is "not fair" and failing to recognize the fact that there are many things in life that are truly not fair. Going to bed at 8:30 while I stay up until 10 is really not one of them. Were they anywhere near meltdown, the very last thing I would be doing was trying to rationalize with them.

I think "appalled" is a strong and unfair word and it is pretty blatantly judgmental. As I said, it works with my children. And the reason it works is because it fits into their "logic" scripts. It does not lead to a meltdown. It actually restores order. I offered it up, in case someone else's kids are like mine.

I posted the next paragraph in another thread from a while back, and it's copied from there verbatim. Basically, kids are afraid of missing something great when the go to bed.

First, interior designers come in, and put up balloons, paper garlands, Christmas lights, and cardboard cut-outs of cartoon characters. Then, caterers show up, and drop off boxes of piping hot pizza, many different cakes, huge baskets of candy, and crates of soda and fruit punch. Third, costumed actors arrive. Fourth, a delivery worker drops off a big box of goody bags for everybody. Lastly, animals trainers arrive, bringing with many puppies and kittens with them. After that, the party begins! All the adults and older siblings pig out on junk food, pet the cute animals, and joke around with the actors. Then, one actor turns off the lights, leaving the room bathed in an ethereal colorful glow from the Christmas lights, and an amazing show begins, the one that makes Christmas morning pale in comparison. The party lasts all night, with everybody smiling the whole time. By morning, the actors and the animal trainers say their goodbyes and leave. A cleanup crew stops by, to eliminate all evidence of the party, making sure absolutely nothing gets left behind. The home once again looks just like it did the night before; not even a trained forensics officer would know there was a party just an hour earlier.

Meanwhile, your son is asleep, alone in a dark, quiet, empty room, with only his stuffed animals to keep him company.

I did not make up the scenario myself. I read it in a parenting article online, although their scenario involved magicians and talking animals, rather than employees. (I changed it to make it easier to visualize for an aspie audience, who may find magic less intriguing than NTs.) But the concept remains the same: a child does not want to miss a really fun event just because he's not allowed to stay up and attend it. And being excluded from this party just because of his age is just that: unfair.

A few good points here. I get the "it's not fair" sometimes, but they're curbed by 1) My Aspie being the eldest- he gets privileges his siblings don't, and extrapolates that to adulthood, and 2) He knows that when he goes to bed, we do hours of boring housework

Maybe let him stay up with you one night and sweep the floor?

Agreed. (Same here.) I do not use this logic if my son is in meltdown. It is when he is in complain mode. And what the logic does is help him ground his disappointment that he is going to bed. And confirms for him that everyone around him isn't exactly staying up and watching movies. And that sometimes we do things that are necessary, though perhaps not our first choice. He would stay up til midnight playing Lego and not wake up for school in the morning otherwise. We also use the logic--your sister takes naps and you don't have to. That's not exactly fair, but it is what NEEDS to happen. By the way, it is said in a very matter-of-fact tone of voice, not a frustrated or upset one. Just a comforting, 'Yeah, I know, sometimes it sucks, but . . . ' It works.

I can identify totally regarding the "unfair" commants! My reaction usually is a matter of fact...."I am sorry you feel that way.....you sound disappointed".....sometimes it helps sometimes it dont!
Regarding going to bed...my son is 9 and still is to anxious to go to bed alone! Could you maybe explore some reasons he doesnt want to go to bed alone? Maybe work with a therapist on ideas of helping him to be able to fall asleep on his own? We are stuck in reading some pages with him, lying down with him till he sleeps and then carry on with our adult activities.... I know this is not the ideal situation, but it does help him relax and ussually this is the time he will talk about things that he is worried about exct....For some reason my son often seems more sad at night and this all contributes to oppositional behaviour because he doesnt know how to tell us all the emotions and fairs going on in his mind!

This ^

When we had issues with bedtime a few years ago (my son is 7) it was not a fairness issue, although I am sure he thought it odd that he was expected to go to bed earlier than us. He did tell us he was "afraid of missing all the fun." We had that problem pop up in various forms, and still do when it comes to homework etc. It is taking time for him to understand that not everything can be fun.

We also do mention that we have to do things that are not fun, too.

I disagree with the poster who implies it is a cop-out to give examples of unfairness/lack of fun or what have you that parents deal with. It is part of the education process and does not equivocate to "I told you so."

It does not mean we don't give our reasons for things, too. It is not a stand alone tool. You explain why you have the rule in place (In our world it is usually something my son can understand like health and safety) and also prepare your child for the outside world.

It also establishes empathy because we can show that we understand our child's perspective, because we feel that way, too, sometimes. My child has major issues identifying and labeling emotions, and I find this to be useful in helping him understand these things better.