2½ years old: temper tantrums or meltdowns?

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my identical twins are 2½ years old. One of them gets these temper tantrums or meltdowns, is there any way that I can be able to differentiate?

Their older brother (9 years old) gets meltdowns. As I only learned that I have AS this year (the children have not been tested yet) I had no idea that it was meltdowns. He has had these since he was a baby.

I see the similarities but can it be temper instead of meltdowns, it is so difficult to see when they are only 2½ years old. He gets them when he do not get his will, but not always. He can usually be talked out of it if he gets what he wants.

I do not know these meltdowns from my self (mine are sensory/stress) so I do not really know what to do with him when he gets these.

A real quick note, if the episode ends quickly when you give the child what he/she wants, then it is probably a tantrum and within the child's ability to control it. If, once the episode has started, nothing but time will make it stop, then it is probably a meltdown and not within the child's ability to control it. The Parenting Index stickie at the top of this forum has a list of threads related to meltdowns and there was a good one on this very topic as I recall.

I would say that at age 2 it might be very, very difficult to differentiate. I don't know that an NT 2 year old's tantrums are really that different from meltdowns: often they are brought on by difficulty with communicating or understanding their wants and needs.

That being said, I'd look for other clues to see if you're dealing with something different. Can you chart the tantrums/meltdowns? Do they happen in a predictable pattern? I remember in retrospect that DS had many, many early meltdowns that had to do with sensory issues like socks or water in his face or crowds (although at 2 he was actually much calmer than most kids) I think that is a bigger clue than the actual meltdowns themselves.

It's going to be tough to tell at age 2 since even most NT children would have trouble communicating the reasons for their outburst to you.

As they get older, there will be some signs though. My parents never knew WHAT set me off (I likely didn't always know either), but there is a big difference between a tantrum and a meltdown, even if they look the same. A tantrum is caused because a child doesn't get his or her way. It is not usually long-lasting, and it is controllable (ie. giving them what they want OR threatening punishment will stop it). A meltdown is set off by the smallest things sometimes, and you usually won't even know what it is. These usually (in my case anyway) last until the individual is too exhausted to continue melting down and they are NOT controllable (meaning no matter how many rewards or punishments you offer, the child cannot stop).

Edit: also meltdowns for me were caused by either sensory overload or change in the routines, so if he gets into an outburst because of a sudden loud noise, for example, you can bet it is PROBABLY a melt-down, not a tantrum.

I agree with Bombaloo. My daughter has tantummed and melted down. When she is tantrumming, she is able to argue back with me, even if it is in absolutely rage-filled screaming voice, and if she gets what she wants, she stops. She has also been violent at times, but it is because she wants to hurt you because she is mad. But when she is melting down, her speech is not goal directed. If she speaks at all, it is highly repetitive and unrelated to what is going on around her. She may flail and thrash about, but it is blind and random. She also cannot stop, no matter what you offer to do or give her.

Tantrums have given way to meltdowns a few times, but that is usually when she is stressed, sick, or tired.

Thank you for your replies.
I see that I have not done my research - I have had a look at the stickie posts and will read through more of them later.

It is very difficult with a 2½ year old. Sometimes he will get happy when he gets what he wants, sometimes not. I guess it can be both, it could sometimes be the fact that things are not going as he expected them to (enough to trigger a meltdown). It is difficult to discern. I try never to get angry with him (or the others) and explain things (well being an aspie oneself can have its' positive sides) Sometimes he will have to accept that the tings are not being done to his satisfaction (e.g. bed time) but I guess that is just part of growing up.

I am alone with the four of them and sometimes have to deal with the twins crying and the middle one melting down (because of the crying (it really gets on his nerves, I think it is because he is very sensitive to emotions)) and the oldest (who is very very mild and gentle) trying to take care of one of the twins (oh - and then trying not to get a total sensory overload myself ).

It is very interesting that the twins are so different, they are identical twins, but seem to differ more and more.

It was harder for me to tell the difference at 2.5, so don't feel bad. A lot of it will come with time and experience.

Also, just want to share that my daughter is the same...gets very overwhelmed when her expectations are violated. And I don't necessarily mean that things don't go her way. It could even be something that she expected would not go "her way," but then didn't go the way she thought it would go. I don't even know if that makes sense. Like at one birthday party she got upset when her present wasn't opened first, so for the next party, we prepped her that her present would not likely be opened first, and it might actually be opened last, and she was OK with that. Then we got to the party and none of the presents were opened at the party, which set her off, because that wasn't the way it was supposed to happen.

Helles, you might find this interesting if you haven't seen it yet:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... -identical

I have sisters who are identical twins. But they are not indentical at all. I don't just mean personality. One suffers from a sensory integration issues and biochemical (not situational) depression, and the other does not.

By biochemical depression, I mean that it arises from a chemical imbalance, not because of anything happening in her life. I think lots of people can have situational depression because varying things in their lives are depressing (loss of job, illness, etc). But for her, her depression is not related to anything happening in her life. It just exists.

[quote="InThisTogether" And I don't necessarily mean that things don't go her way. It could even be something that she expected would not go "her way," but then didn't go the way she thought it would go. I don't even know if that makes sense. [/quote]

DS melts down whenever there is any kind of a contest, because he can't control the outcome. Once, I was volunteering at a school function where there happened to be a raffle drawing, and he ran up to me, pulled on my arm, and said (really loudly) "I'm afraid I might not win! I never win!" I kid you not, the next name drawn was his. He immediately had a huge and spectacular meltdown, because he said it wasn't the prize he wanted (although he had no idea what the prizes even were or how he felt about them.)

This holds true in any situation where chance is involved: he will be just as likely to melt down if he gets what he wants as he is if he loses. It has nothing to do with him getting his way, it's that he cannot tolerate the unknown. After several years of therapy, he is now able to play board games, although it's something he would never choose to do (and never at home with us.) He's 12 and we are still working on this one, which is actually one of the more disabling features of autism for him.

My daughter, at the age of 5.5, started a self-imposed ban of raffles. The whole thing just causes too much discomfort for her. She also started to refuse to go to her school's bingo-based fundraisers. She said "I know I'm not going to win, and I know I will act like a baby. I don't want to go."

For her, I feel like the reason she has such a hard time when her expectations are violated is really quite simple and straightforward. She has a hard time "thinking on her feet." So when her internal "script" falls apart, it is as if the floor just dropped out from under her. And now that she is getting older, there is a higher expectation that she will be flexible and adapt, but she can't. She literally gets the "deer in the headlights" look and will usually just stand there and become mute. You can see the panic written on her face. On some occasions it will cause a meltdown or tantrum if she perceives what happened to be unfair, but usually, she just becomes overwhelmed with confusion and shuts down.

Thanks, that's a really good breakdown of what happens to your daughter internally.

Unfortunately, DS wouldn't impose a ban on himself - we had to do it for him - but these days he goes along with it because he also doesn't want to fall apart. He is gradually improving as time goes on. Sadly, schools set all kids up to fail in this regard: the "prizes" for those school fundraisers are preposterously impossible to get and the kids just don't understand that.

I think my son's version of this problem is a little different, though; he has, in therapy, developed a lot of scripts for a lot of situations, and he can often use those in congruent situations that don't involve a win/lose (for instance, sometimes he can figure out quickly the right script to use if someone hurt him or herself suddenly.)

I think in his case, it's more to do with rigidity and sensitivity: his mind has its own inertia that is really difficult for him to change. In win/lose situations the whole point is to build up tension, he spends all his energy trying to prepare for and mitigate disappointment while the tension builds, so he builds up a huge weighty system of disappointment/futile and frustrating attempts to manage that disappointment, and once it happens he can't stop the "train" headed for disappointment because of the huge buildup.

I guess, as I'm writing this, some of it is that he is hypersensitive to artificial build-ups in emotion (he can't tolerate movies in the theaters for this reason, unless he's wearing earplugs and a baseball cap to block them out periodically.) Interesting to write about this and break it down...

I actually think that I get wiser about my self, just reading about your kids.
I just got an idea about AS this year (at 40 yo) and I am now trying to understand my children and my self at the same time.

I have almost always hated to play games (boardgames, cards etc.) but have never been able to explain. My 9 yo. DS (as I have learned is the apporpriate way to adress one´s children) is the same. He hates anything competetive - I have never really been able to guess why. This might give me some indsight. It also makes me more aware that he is not nearly as "normal" as I thought just a few months ago.