5 and 6 year old boy social interactions-- insight please!

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Ok, so I'm finding it somewhat difficult to figure out how to help my son socially. He's only 5, so, I know things will change a lot over the years. Here's the thing, I find that I don't understand how 5 and 6 year old boys play in groups, so I'm having trouble helping him navigate it. Like, for instance, I can't tell when the kids are being mean or just playing around!

My boy is not super outgoing, but he LOVES playing with other kids. He typically just struggles with inserting himself into a social situation, especially with more than one kid. He can play one on one really well, as long as they're doing something that has generally prescribed rules.... pretend play is ok, as long as it follows a story line that he gets... I think you know what I mean. Put him in a group, though, and he just can't seem to follow what's happening, and often gets upset/anxious. He doesn't come tattling or anything like that, but you'll find him sort of cowering in the corner with a really anxious look on his face.

So, here's what I need some advice on: tonight we went to a friends house for dinner. Sometimes, he finds their house really stressful. Mainly, if he thinks that their kids are going to have other friends over, he's afraid they won't play with him. Which, to his credit, is true a lot of the time. I mean, they'll sorta play with him, but because he can't really follow what they're up to, they'll just exclude him. Today, like other times we've gone over, the six year old boy at the house had his buddy over. They played with my son for a while on the play structure outside, but once they got inside, they were kind of being mean to him. I walked in the bedroom to check on them and they were saying things to him like, "You're going to drink pee for Halloween." I have NO idea what they were talking about... were they being mean? were they just doing potty humor?? I sort of brushed it off and jokingly said, "Thats gross, why would you say that?" Then, I explained that he was planning to be the "Fruit Ninja" (which is a totally awesome game, BTW) and they just kept saying, again, that the ninja drinks pee.... I was sorta baffled. My son, being awesome and literal just says, "The fruit ninja just chops up fruit!! He doesn't drink anything"

Anyway, fast forward a little bit.. suddenly the two boys are shutting him out of the room and telling him not to come in. I try to go in... they think I'm him and they're yelling"Stay out!!" I let them know that they aren't allowed to shut kids out. And, the mom of the kid hosting tells them the same thing...

Then, they all decide to go outside. The adults are sort of between the front and back of the house, so we only see a little bit. I walk in the back and the two boys are chasing my son around with sticks! I honestly couldn't tell if they were playing or not! The one boy looks at me and defensively says, "It's just a game!" I just tell them to be careful and sort of observe. My boy picked up a toy gun and ran around with them and then he pretended to do his tae kwon do. It SORT of felt like it was a game, but I still wasn't sure. I asked him later if he liked the game and he said he didn't because he was afraid they'd poke him with the sticks for real.

I told him to just be sure to tell people that he doesn't like a particular game if he doesn't want to play it...

I dunno... I know I'm writing a novel. But, I really have no idea if they were actually being mean to him or if it's just the way boys play. I have a slight feeling that one of the boys has a minor mean streak in him, but I'm trying not to judge too quickly. I know that all kids, no matter if they have AS or not, have some things they have to figure out when playing in a group. I just have a really hard time figuring out if certain kids just aren't a good fit for my boy, or if it's something that he will need to learn, so he might as well do it while I have at least half an ear on the situation.

Any thoughts??? I know it's a big rambly mess... I hope someone understands what I'm actually asking! haha!

Well hopefully someone will jump in here and give you some advice. All I can say is my son is 6 and he has NO DESIRE to play all of those games with other kids (especially boys) and sometimes, honestly, I don't blame him. Kids can be downright mean from all of my observations. I really worry about my son that he is not getting proper interaction with other kids, but then I think to myself, is it necessary for a child's development to get chased and hit with objects? I just don't know. I am lost. I am hoping that maybe when my son is a little older, he will find a friend that he can relate to on a more intellectual level. Who knows......sorry I am not much help!

We are relatively new to the town we're in, but the town we used to live in, we had some very close friends with kids my son's age. They went through all of the rough times I had when we figured out he was struggling socially. So, naturally, because my friends are awesome, they were always so helpful when it seemed like a social situation was getting confusing for him. We visited this summer and it was amazing!! It's like going back to family. My boy DOES like to play rough and tumble, and so do some of the other boys from our old town, but we had rules about it. Like, they had to ASK each other to play rough, and quit immediately if someone said stop. It worked out well. And, the kids in the group, in general, just really like him, so they would sorta drag him along in the play... or a parent would ask them to invite him to play when he seemed left out. There just wasn't a lot of mean spirited seeming stuff happening.

Tonight, though, because the parents are so hands off, and because only one of the parents really even knows my boy has AS, it was different. I said something to the other mom, like, "well, you know, I have to keep an eye on them because my son doesn't always pick up on things socially." And, her response was just to say, "All kids have to figure it out at some point." I don't want to run around telling everyone everything about him in a new town.. .but it sure was nice to have my supportive/understanding/in the know crew in our old town!!


It's just so tricky to figure this stuff out. I guess over time we'll get there. We'll find our people.

Define play. I don't think it's a small statement. What do you expect from it? Mishap's it is a crucial concept.

I have a six year old boy who has PDD-NOS. He is relatively high functioning, verbal and likes to join in.

I know where you are coming from. It is very difficult to tell when the kids this age are play fighting or really fighting.

Is your son in Kindergardwn or preschool? You might want to ask his teacher or Educational Aide for some guidance. They usually have some solid education and hands on experience with this age groups social psychology. They might have some insight.

One thing to watch for - if your son is ALWAYS the one being chased, excluded or ran away from - then it is not just fun and games. even with the young kids, there will be some reciprocity. I remember an old "Franklin" DVD, where the characters were reminded "it's only fun when it is fun for everyone".

to help facilitate at home visits, it might be helpful to have a few fun, STRUCTURED activities, such as xbox kinect, age appropriate board games, arts and crafts, bocce ball, or whatever else you can think of. this type of play as clear rules, turn taking and is fun for both NTs and children with autism. this way all the kids can comfortably play together.

I hope this helps a bit.

I am so glad I had a daughter and not a boy! We are still friking animals. Boys are all about being an alpha male, and alpha male = the strongest, and to prove they are the stronget (and its minion) you have to be physically abusive to the weaker. I do not think those boys were "playing". I think they were being abussive to your kid. Your kid was not enjoying the "game", right? That's more than enough. If I was you I would never take your kid to their house or at least leave them alone. Other parents always look bad at me because I like my daughter inside my eye range at all times when we are in other peoples houses, but we have kids whose other kids tend to abuse of. And I try not to let that happen. I learned that some times you have good friends whose kids are just not good to yours. We have to face that. Not because someone is OUR friend that means our kids would get along to. Leave your kid out of your relationship and help him build healthy relationships with kids he likes and kids that are good to him. Thats the best way you can help him.

Honestly, at this age, they probably can't either.



I've noticed kids generally don't bother with formalities. They go over to a group and say something like "What are you doing?" or "Can I play?"



Well...I'm afraid I don't have many suggestions for this other than he should just try to follow their lead.



This was a bad response. A lot of times children who take the more mature rout and try to reason with their aggressors actually give the bullies fuel. Despite what you were probably told as a child, they need to defend themselves by "pushing back" to show the bullies they will not tolerate being bullied and they need to do this with a similar level of crudeness the bully threw at them.

Something like "Yeah? Will you eat poo," will usually suffice. Of course since you stepped in as an adult, you could have just completely redirected the conversation or redirected their interest in the subject. For example you could have told them that the Romans used to brush their teeth with pee.



It probably wasn't a game. They ganged up on him and tried to exclude him from playing with them and this probably comes down to the fact that he really can't read their non-verbal body language. Even at this age, children have a sense of who's cool and with it and who isn't, and they have very little patience for those who aren't with it.

In the situation of the stick "game" most kids would have realized their compromised position and asserted themselves by removing themselves from the situation by saying "Stop" and then if it continued "I'm not playing anymore" and walking away. They might get taunted as they are walking away but at this point the kid should just ignore them and keep walking.

I would ask one of the other parents in a non- threatening way, like "it seems kids here have a different pattern for interacting than I'm used to. Where we used to live, for example, kids never talked about drinking pee. What do they mean by it? I just don't know how to take some of these things and I want to make sure my son doesn't end up copying things that will cause issues for him."

[quote="CanadianRose"
Is your son in Kindergardwn or preschool? You might want to ask his teacher or Educational Aide for some guidance. They usually have some solid education and hands on experience with this age groups social psychology. They might have some insight.

One thing to watch for - if your son is ALWAYS the one being chased, excluded or ran away from - then it is not just fun and games. even with the young kids, there will be some reciprocity. I remember an old "Franklin" DVD, where the characters were reminded "it's only fun when it is fun for everyone".

to help facilitate at home visits, it might be helpful to have a few fun, STRUCTURED activities, such as xbox kinect, age appropriate board games, arts and crafts, bocce ball, or whatever else you can think of. this type of play as clear rules, turn taking and is fun for both NTs and children with autism. this way all the kids can comfortably play together.

I hope this helps a bit.[/quote]

Thanks! I think that I will talk to one of his teachers about it. I've actually talked to her about his social skills just in the last week. I was asking her if she thought he was playing with other kids and her response was that he played with lots of kids. My question is more about the quality of play since I know things like the scenario I just told you about happens with my friends kids.

I AM worried that he was the only one being excluded the whole time. Also, I know what you mean about structured activities. When we have kids to our own house, that's how we do things. ANd, yes, the Kinect has been quite the asset!! Well, unless there's a bunch of toddlers runnign around messing up the sensor!!

Chronos: you make some really good points. I think you're right, that the literal response about how fruit ninjas don't really drink things, does signal to the kids that he has no idea what's going on. And, it IS true that he is clearly not asserting himself when kids are playing something he doesn't like. I'm going to be sure to talk to him about it whenever we go to play with groups. I'll remind him that anytime there's a game he doesn't like, he should just tell them he doesn't like it and to stop.


I really appreciate everyone's responses. I woke up feeling incredibly guilty for not just intervening in a more assertive way for him. I guess I'm just learning!! And, I want him to be able to handle his own battles. I guess unless I observe how he is in these scenarios from time to time, I won't know how to deal with it otherwise.

DW: I think I will talk to the other kid's parents at some point. I have to decide if I bring up specifically last night's events or if I wait until next time. i'm thinking I might bring up at least, in general, last night, because I had already told my friend that I didn't want to bring him over if there were going to be a lot of kids over. He was having a rough morning yesterday, and they had invited us over earlier in the day, but when they told me that their boys
had friends over, I actually said to her that I didn't think my son was up for that kind of socialization that day. So, I suggested we get together later. so, when we got there and realized that the other kids were still there, I was disappointed!


Thanks everyone!

I agree. It's usually pretty easy to detect reciprocity; if you have doubts, it probably isn't happening. It sounds like bullying to me, and given the statistics on the amount of bullying kids with ASD are subjected to (or any kids for that matter!) I would be careful. Have you asked your son if he had a good time?

I've had boys who are now teens and older, and I agree that rough play is a natural part of their interactions. That doesn't mean it is desirable, however, I was always pretty strict about the way my boys played when they were little. At 5 and 6, I was still monitoring things pretty closely. When we had playdates, I was in the room or outside most of the time. You'll know when things are going well and you're not needed. The rest of the time, I figured it was my job to lead the games or provide crafts or activities for the kids to do. If I were at the playground, I would call kids on shoving smaller children out of the way, not letting them play on the equipment, taunting etc. I'd do it a lot when their parents weren't around (which was often the case) but I would also do it when they were. I would say, "I don't like hearing words like that," or "Let's give xxx a turn now," etc. And I would say to my own kids, "Say excuse me," "Always let other kids go first," etc. My assumption was not that these kids were bullies or misbehaving, but that they didn't know the rules of fair play.

Actually, I found it helpful to say that to all my kids, whether NT or AS: "Those kids aren't playing by the rules; they probably haven't learned them yet." It seemed to reduce my kids' panic about the rules being broken.

I also really preferred having playdates at our house rather than someone else's. Kids usually find it easy to accept ground rules inside other people's homes. The upside is, ours is the house teenagers seem to prefer visiting, and I love that.
J.

misstippy - please don't feel guilty or beat yourself up! I think it is so hard to figure out when to intervene because what is happening is really unacceptable and when to leave well enough alone. I often question if I am just being an over-protective, over-bearing mother or if I am stepping in and stopping something that really needs to be stopped. If you can, pull him aside briefly in these situations and just ask him point blank if he is having fun or not. More than likely, he will tell you the truth and you can either let it go if he says its all fun and games or you can put a stop to it. Of course I'm the mom who, when I have decided that what is going on it completely unacceptable, has no problem telling other peoples' kids to cut it out. Doesn't always win me points with the other adults but when it comes to my kids' safety, I'm OK with that.

Hi Misstippy

I'll be watching this thread with interest as I have a 5yr old girl, although she plays with boys mostly. I'm going through a very similar thing with her. She's awaiting autism assessment and probably has Aspergers.

2 weeks ago, she started back at school, after the summer holidays. I was/am becoming concerned about the way she's being treated by the boys in the playground in the morning before the bell. I noticed that a small group were circling her and a couple of them pushed her, but she wasn't hurt. One time, they were calling her a boy and laughing at her for liking boy things. They didn't even stop when I was right next to her. There have been a couple of similar incidents, but she's never been hurt.

I told my husband about this and, as he had the day off today, I asked him to observe the goings on closely. I was prepared to go to see the depute head, if he agreed with me. But today was different. The same boys were there and they were circling her, buit there was no name calling. Every so often, she'd run off, with a huge smile on her face and they'd be trying to catch her (not really possible as she's such a good runner). I don't know if there's been a change in the way they see her or maybe they're starting to show her some respect for standing up for herself. She seems happy in herself anyway. I really don't know how this is going to work out and I'm just going to be observant each morning. However, I worry about what might be happening when I'm not there.

Then today she said she was 'attacked' by 4 girls and they pulled off her jacket and the reason was truly weird. The others had picked a flower and surrounded it with some stones, for protection. They were worried that my daughter was going to kill it. She told them that they had killed it already by plucking it from the plant and that she wasn't going to harm it anyway. My daughter is highly intelligent and science and nature are a special interest so, she knows what she's talking about. They argued with her about this and it resulted in her being chased and the jacket ripped from her body. She was fine and reported the incident to a teacher.

It's difficult trying to figure out little kids. But there are 2 boys I stopped my daughter playing with, and later found that my insticts had been correct (and how!). Trust your own instincts.

I agree with DW; this doesn't sound like appropriate playing - although the kids are very little, so calling it bullying is a bit strong.

Even though it's hardly appropriate for 5 year olds, I really liked this interview on Autism Talk TV: http://www.wrongplanet.net/article410.html I went to their website, they've got several books of strategies and resources (I have one on pre-order; I'll tell you how it is when I get it.)

It might also not be a bad idea to offer your son something he can do by himself when he's tossed in with these kids, like a video game or a puzzle.

I liked the interview also and ordered her book off Amazon. It should come in a couple of weeks.

Since all of you were so kind to give me input on this issue, I figured I'd follow up and let you know where we've gone with all of this.

I spoke with his Speech Therapist who has been working on pragmatics with him and his Special ed teacher as well.

I told her about the playdate that I described above, along with some other situations where he seemed to be the kid who was always "it". He told me recently that when he plays with these two boys at school, they always want to play monsters... which entails them chasing him around. I asked if he liked it and he said "no"/ So, when I asked him what he does when they play this game, he said he just runs away and tries to (pretend) fight them off. Well, you can see how noone on the playground would think he wasn't enjoying himself.


SO, what we came up with was that he needs to be able to assert himself by suggesting other things to play. We're working on practicing that right now. I like this because my first response was to tell him to just tell the kids he didn't like it and go play with someone else... but, that doesn't really teach him how to PLAY. And, I don't want him to be the kid that's always the spoil sport.

I think he has reported to me his first success in this strategy. I asked him yesterday who he was playing with... he mentioned the two boys who always play "monsters." He said that he and his other friend (who is also on the spectrum) were MONSTER CATCHERS! So, THEY were chasing the other kids around. I was so proud!! So, he didn't have to be IT anymore. He figured out how to make the game something else. And, he said he liked playing it.

Thank you so much for your responses! It just goes to show that if we think about stuff together, we can help our kids more than if we just try to figure it out alone. I am so happy, too, that the people at his school were so open to talking to me about it and brainstorming how to help him assert himself. I feel grateful that there are people who are working with him that know what to do in this situation. I honestly didn't know if they'd know how to help me, but I have been extremely pleased with their input so far.