My attitude is more important than the facts! Huh!! !

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http://thinkexist.com/quotation/the_lon ... 96740.html

I had a job setting up computers in various classrooms of different schools. When I saw this quote by Charles Swindoll I was flabbergasted. If one believes that 2+2=5 using the base 10 number system, non-floating numbers, and using our current numerical symbols does my attitude matter here? Does it matter if I feel 2+2=5? The fact is within the constraints that our set up 2+2=4. Why does my attitude matter more than one's attempt to understand reality itself?

I don't understand.

I think the quote is simply using hyperbole to express how important an attitude can be when applied to human behavior. In general, people tend to do badly at things when they have a poor attitude, and well at things when they have a good attitude. The author is exaggerating to make this point.

As for what constitutes a "good" or a "bad" attitude, that is a completely different conversation...

I understand the theory behind what you are saying but it is difficult for me to fathom. This is because for me my ability precedes my attitude. How does this mechanism work for people in general? I gave you the example of my driving. I could not switch lanes that well until I obtained a certain piece of information. I did not believe I could drive that well. Once I obtained this information my whole attitude changed. My attitude was the effect and my lack of knowledge was the cause.

For an NT, is their attitude the cause and is their lack of knowledge the effect. It is like my cause is their effect and my effect is their cause. I will use figurative language myself. From my point of view, it is like they are saying the birth of a child caused the pregnancy of the mother. Here is another thing.

My loved ones can't seem to fathom what I am saying. They keep wanting to focus on my attitude which I keep explaining to them is not the cause but the effect. I keep telling them that I need the knowledge and ability first and that my neurological configuration is different than yours. For whatever reason, they do not accept what I say and will even analyze it at all. It is very frustrating indeed.

I think that quote is ridiculous, too. Is your family actually using that on you?

In life there are people with a more "optimistic" or "positive" outlook or attitude and then there are those who are more "negative" or pessimistic. People who are optimistic tend to really dislike "negative" attitudes and will use pejoratives like "Debbie Downer" for people who are too negative. On the other hand, people who are more pessimistic perceive themselves to be more realistic and look at people who are too optimistic as naive or as dreamers. Unless a person is very extreme in one direction, he/she will probably know people that can be placed in either category.

I am on the more "negative" side of that spectrum and I suspect many aspies are because of their experiences. So I have to be careful not to annoy people with too many complaints and the like because I know it is not perceived well. Sometimes curtailing one's complaints is not enough because people will inquire about why you don't do this or that, and if you answer that you are not good at x, they poo poo it as a defeatest attitude, even if you may very well be making a realistic assessment.

For some reason there is a pervasive attitude that a "can do" attitude can win out over any adversity. I do not believe that is the case. That does not imply a fatalistic approach, because the answer is not necessarily that I will never be good at x, but I might need more prerequisite skills, practice, knowledge etc.

People do not necessarily want to hear that and just think if you think positively success will magically come. Sometimes tasks require skills I will never be intrinsically good at, and that is OK. too. For example, I will never be an Olympic caliber sprinter and I am Ok with that.

Does a positive attitude help in acquiring skills? I believe it does to a point because it helps focus the mind, but it will not overcome everything. Positive experiences create a positive attitude also, so it becomes rather circular.

I TOTALLY get what you are saying! It is the exact same thing that Ross Greene says, in his case it is about kids but I think it applies here too, kids do well if they can. In other words, if they have the skills to do well, they will. If they don't have the skills to negotiate the world around them, no amount of "good attitude" is going to help. One of the biggest difficulties I see in how NT people interact with autistic people is the failure to properly distinguish between CAN'T (lack of skill, knowledge or understanding) and WON'T (bad attitude).

I think you've hit the nail right on the head! (Though that still doesn't make 2+2 = 5 ).

no, they are not. I saw it at one of my previous jobs. We had to install and setup computers.



Personally, I believe in having a more objective attitude as possible. I want my abilities and lack of abilities tested through double-blind and objective tests. It may be possible that my conclusions about what I can or can't do is off. I want to get to more of a center which is not too positive and not too negative. I believe more in critical thinking and its tenets more so than positive thinking.



I know what you mean. I did this online to people. I would ask them why are you so negative against negative thinking. I would continue to ask, Don't you have a negative attitude as well. Let's see, I've been cussed out or ignored.



Please read this book. I checked it out of my local library.

http://www.barbaraehrenreich.com/brightsided.htm

It gives you a lot of historical information about where positive attitude and thinking came from. In a nutshell, it came from a healing technique. It was a response towards Calvinism and puritanism. People with Calvinist and puritanical beliefs continuously kept trying to monitor their own thoughts for sinful thinking. This became a disease of thought. Some people were becoming sick from this and could not get out of bed. It was originally called new thought and was a reaction and was a cure for calvisinistic and puritianical thinking.

Through my research I have discovered that what has happened is it has become a gigantic mess with cultish like behavior.

Please take a look at this about cults. Do you think that based upon these attributes of cultish behavior that positive thinking is a gigantic cult that has taken root in America which is not allowed to be questioned or challenged at all? IMHO, in order to solve a problem one has to identify it correctly. I believe this is one of the main reasons autistics and non-autistics are having problems obtaining help they need. I believe the root of the problem in American society is not the individual but the majority's belief's and standards which means it is society itself.



I'm ok with that as well. What happens when it is a requirement for success in society? Should one be forced to do something he is not intrinsically good at and goes against who he or she naturally is? Didn't Shakespeare state that "know thine self be true?" Should one be forced to conform to a belief system that makes no sense to him and seems to go against logic and reason without questioning and challenging it to understand the rationale behind it? I get the general sense that America is about conformity, control, and compromise (you as the individual do all of the compromising.) Alright, I'm off of my soapbox now!!



Which is why I believe in getting to a more middle ground and a more objective attitude about things. I don't believe in conformity for conformity's sake nor do I believe in rebellion for rebellion's sake. I do believe society is correct about many things like murder, pedophilia, stealing, etc. I can write a report as to why murder, pedophilia and stealing are wrong. I do believe marijuana should be legal but I don't think children should be allowed to smoke it whatsoever except for medical purposes with intensive supervision by responsible adults. I do not support how prisons are run today because they're based more on revenge and not justice. I do believe in good manners like Please and thank you. To me, one should not pee in the coffee cup at the workplace or someone's house. I do not believe one should have to project an aura of confidence and know how to be a salesman in order to have success in a given society. I believe in a level of civility that is grounded in rationality, objectivity, reason, and logic as much it can be. I do not believe one should be judged on how hard they shake another person's hand or if they don't want to shake a person's hand. I believe one is innocent until proven guilty and this doesn't just include the legal system. This should be a standard in everyday life as well.

I think a lot of NTs think that if they, others, and especially their children / pupils (if they are parents or teachers) have a positive attitude, they will accomplish much more than if they have a negative attitude. That is partly true; if people are not motivated and courageous they may not try as hard. As a teacher, I always try hard to capture my students' interest and motivate them. If they have a bad attitude to my subject, they will not make an effort to learn it. For NTs, persisting in trying to learn something hard or boring is a big challenge. Many people on the spectrum are used to trying things several times because they are pushed to do it, and they also like accumulating knowledge in their area of interests. So I think this kind of statement is, like a lot of inspirational talks, based on the idea that if you are motivated you have a better chance of succeeding.

But I agree completely that this kind of thinking ignores the different abilities of people. I find that when I am dealing with the school system, too. They will say that my ASD needs to "be challenged" to do things that are hard for her. It is OK if I, as the mother, say that I don't think she will ever be able to do algebra or read at a high school level or whatever. They, however, are not allowed to say that, or that is how they act. It is as if saying she does not have the ability to do certain things is more insulting than assuming she isn't doing it because she doesn't want to. I think it is amazing she stays so motivated and keeps trying to do grade-level work even when she has such difficulty, and that's what I would like the teachers to recognize. And why does she have to perform at grade level, anyway?

And yes, it is a bit cultish. The idea is that if you have enough faith that something will happen, it will. If it doesn't, it's because of a failure in your own attitude.

Do you think that people on the spectrum are more realistic about their own abilities? I wouldn't be surprised if this were true, because a lot of NTs seem to be convinced they are better at things than they are.

J.