Socializing witrh Children

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How much of the skills needed to socialize/deal with adults, later on in life are gained from socializing with peers as a child/teen?

Based on my own childhood/teen experiences, children and teens are much harder to deal with than adults:.

How much peer social interaction as a child is actually necessary to become a functional adult? Some of the teen meanness, I guess helps one identify mean untrustworthy adults, later on, but It seems easier to learn how to socialize with adults by interacting with them as opposed to other children. I know I am missing something here.

I am worried about the future, when the kids start turning mean, as they get older, and I am wondering if the PTSD type stuff that can result is worth the benefits of trying to make it work.

In the work place, you need to be able to socialize with adults. However, it can be very lonely growing up not being able to socialize with your peers since most kids spend the majority of time with kids their own age. As a parent, I would be uncomfortable with the adult who seeks my children out as "friends" since those are usually the predators. My son is a child too, and even though children can be mean, I think it will hurt him if everyone is friends with each other and he doesn't have any friends.

I saw on a TV program that there was a school that had student mentors. The mentors were usually a grade ahead and spent time with the students, trying to involve them in school activities and jus being a kind face. I plan on approaching the principal with an ID like this, once my son is older.

I also worry about getting my child through childhood while minimizing the bulling that may come along with it. My son is pretty young, but I am hoping to involving in extra curricular activities out of school, which he may enjoy. I also plan to put him to work in a family business (my brothers have small businesses).

Based on my experience there are very few good lessons to be learned from interacting with kids and teens in a school environment, but it can be useful when completely removed from the school system (the kids involved are not at school functions and are not school peers)

Lessons I learned in school:

1. Other people, especially those with power are capriciously cruel and there is nothing that can be done about it, so there is never any point in trying to stand up for yourself or anyone else all it will always result in is pain and suffering for yourself.


Personally, that is a lesson that I never, ever want my kids to learn. I want them to learn that advocacy can possibly work. That things can be changed. That it is possible for abusers to be punished, and that while life might not be fair all the time that they are not required to stay in a situation where someone uses that line to justify random cruelty.


2. That it is infinitely better to be thought stupid than to be though smart.

Seriously what kind of lesson is that? One of the most awful I can think of. What could I have done with my life if this hadn't been drilled into my head every day for 14 years (Head Start to 12th grade)?


3a. That there is never a situation where other people want your input so it is better to never try to get anyone to care.

3b. That any situation where I think people are trusting and respecting me and wanting my input is a misinterpretation on my part which will soon be followed by public humiliation, and was likely set up intentionally to give them the excuse for public humiliation.



In order to learn socialization as an adult, I have had to overcome the "lessons" I learned in school. And to be honest, I am 33 and only beginning to overcome some of those with a lot of support. Maybe it would be different for a kid now. Maybe you don't live in a tiny rural town where it is socially acceptable for the teachers to abuse the students in the school (and I mean physically abuse as well as emotionally abuse). Maybe you as a parent won't allow these things to go on with no more intervention than telling your kid there is nothing that can be done and to learn to put up with it. Maybe, maybe you know?

With my kids, however, they are homeschooled, and interact with other kids in the neighborhood and in the small homeschool group activities. Removed from the pressures of the school environment (those other kids have to think about how "cool" they will look to the other "cool" kids interacting with a socially awkward kid even outside of school hours of course!), most kids are much better behaved and much less likely to be cruel. I feel like my kids have learned much more about socializing than I ever did, through the non-school (and totally non-school related) interactions. And not dealing with sadistic adults and the stress of a school environment lets them put a lot more effort and learning into the socializing they get. It's actually about socializing for my kids and not about just surviving.

I am 38 and went to public school in NYC. I was also in the AP classes in HS and the advance classes in JHS (elementary school is kind a blur). I was with the nerdy kids, I was a nerdy kid, and was never meant to feel bad about being smart. In fact, we were all pretty well adjusted. In HS I played volleyball (sorta okay) was on the law team, journalism team and had a did a year in the photography club. It was about 25-30 of us and we were all in mostly the same classes and were friends with each other. We had the top grades in HS and were in the honor society.

I remember getting a lot of support and praise from teachers. I remember that they encouraged our interest which is how we ended up on a beach cleaning it up, trying to save the marine life. We were the ones who were teacher's assistants and volunteered in the dean's office, etc. Bein smart was highly valued. We competed to see who had the best test scores and GPA.

I haven't been in HS in 20 years but I have nieces and nephews in HS in AP classes and I see there is a lot of academic competition. I guess there are some kids that look down on intelligence, but my experience is, these kids are constantly being groomed for their standardized tests and eventually college. My son is in the first grade and his teacher is already talking about the 3rd grade tests. I guess it depends on the school, but from what I have seen, the smart kid well respected.

I am writing from an NT point of view; having experienced little bullying and average social success as a child and teen. Of additional note is that the public grade & high schools I attended seem to me, in retrospect, as not having had particularly competitive or bullying social aspects (bullies were recognized and fairly ostracized by junior high). Also at the time of my school years, special students were not mainstreamed in my city (lower middle class Midwestern, dying industrialized USA).

I'd identify my childhood/teen socialization as pretty important. Therein I learned the joy and importance of having peer friendships. Additionally I experienced the pleasure which can be derived by being within a large group of acquaintances; interacting within a large 'cast' of interesting characters. The specific social skills and coping mechanisms I learned (or started learning) from interacting with my peers as a young person are:

- Interpersonal boundaries that work and don't work among peers and how to judge when to adjust those boundaries with specific individuals as relationships develop.
- How to rebound from interpersonal disagreements (when possible, through apology/negotiation/forgiveness/forebearance) without being overly crushed by the initial bad interaction.
- Getting a sense of when it's best to confront a situation instantaneously (because instantaneous confrontation keeps things in context) and when it may be best to 'wait and see' because at the moment emotions are overblown (momentarily exaggerating the importance of the situation).
- My conviction that the most popular among my peers are not necessarily the most valuable individuals to have as close friends.
- The beginnings of how to evaluate who to stay away from as to potentially dangerous individuals.
- That it's better to keep first impressions of people in suspension until I get to know them better.
- The conviction that my friendship is of intrinsic value and that I will withdraw it, if it is abused.
- That friendship is a non-competitive commodity; no jealousy need be involved as to who or how many.
- That jealousy (me being jealous) never leads to anything good.
- Understanding that drama within the peer group leads to nothing good and how to not get involved in it.
- That peers do not reward bragging or constantly competitive behavior when not in the context of work or sports (games).
- That being loyal to friends when they are ostracized or treated unfairly, is always more rewarding than abandoning them.
- The foundation of my Theory of Mind (the sum of my social experiences as a young person within my peer group, as the proving ground in the development of my Theory of Mind).

Navigation within the peer group in childhood/teen years is foundational to navigation within one's adult peer group. Learning/experiencing it nearly 'from scratch' in adulthood is possible, I assume. But wouldn't that place a huge burden on the resources of a young adult?

Last edited by MountainLaurel on 20 Mar 2013, 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I agree that these things are possible, and it is not pleasant to reach adulthood with no experience/knowledge of all the things you mentioned. I was mostly pointing out that the wrong kind of interaction and environment is more poisonous to development than more lack of experience. I feel like, for me, that the socialization I got at school has been a huge hurdle and burden to my life.

As for the smart kids being valued. That too probably had to do more with a terrible location than a universal thing. Yes, the place I grew is actively stuck 50 years behind the rest of the US socially. The school I went to didn't offer AP classes. Didn't have a G/T program, and actively and explicitly told the students that they expected only about 2-5% of the student body to ever attend college, much less graduate from it (and those were expected to be the ones that went to play sports). Girls of course were not supposed to be smart, especially in math and science, and were not supposed to be wanting to go to college. I learned very early on to lie about test scores if asked directly or to never bring them up voluntarily. To avoid being the one answering the questions, even if I knew the answer. Whatever the realities in other places, that is the reality where I grew up. The only people valued there are the "Good Ol Boys" and those that can be trained to become "Good Ol Boys".

I have one word: flexibility.

It's my hope that somewhere in between our two very different experiences lies a viable path for ASDkid of ASDmommy.

As I was writing out my list of social skills in development as a young person, I was acutely aware of the social homogeneity I grew up in. While we were racially diverse in my schools, we were all from fairly socioeconomically homogenous neighborhoods (lower middle class). Also, 'special students' where in 'special' classes or schools, so I was not witness to whatever treatment they might have received had they been among us. It was a pretty even societal 'playing field' in which I grew up. As far as I can perceive, none of my classmates was singled out for poor treatment by the rest, except for the few bullies (who became a non-issue by the time we were no longer in the primary grades) because they were universally avoided. Yes, there were a few especially well liked kids, but no one was friendless or 'picked on'.

While writing, I was also acutely aware that as an NT child I had some instinctive social intelligence. I tend to believe social intelligence is a largely a learned trait, based on my own progress in humility and understanding through time, experience & maturity. But having two daughters who are close in age; one with considerable inborn social intelligence and the other with only average (NT) inborn social intelligence; it gives me pause. My younger daughter had to learn so much more socially, the hard way, than my older one did. I can only begin to appreciate the social struggle of those born on the autistic spectrum.

Thank you all for your responses. Reading over MountainLaurel's very helpful list reminded me that maybe I did learn something of value socially from being amongst other kids. I know at the time if I had been given a choice, I would have extricated myself from it. I really hated it. I will try not to worry until I see signs of things to worry about. I just also worry that if the minuses start to outweigh the pluses and I have to yank him, about finding something sufficiently scaffolded for him to acquire these skills. I was kind of hoping that maybe it was not that important. He is not going to like any of the extra-curricular stuff where we live, so I may at some point have to see if any larger towns nearby have a weekend technology club that might be a better, safer social fit, when he is ready. He just started being interested in socializing with other kids very recently.

You didn't say if your child has siblings, but I just wanted to add that interactions with family members can be much more valuable learning experiences than those with other peers. I am NT with some asd traits and the youngest of a large family. My daughter is hfa and the youngest of a large family. Both of us have learned much more, and better, about social behaviour from older siblings than from the bullying and teasing we got on the schoolground. My sibs helped us to navigate those situations and made us feel loved despite whatever flaws our peers picked up on. I have also tried to put her in situations and programs with people her own age in which she is appreciated. They may be hard to find, but it is worth it.
J.

No siblings. So, if I have to pull my son out of school, I would have to find interest-based groups for him to join to socialize with children. This is problematic because he wouldn't want to do anything "optional" and we would have to travel to find a group b/c we live far from anywhere with those types of activities. Everything here is either sports or outdoorsy stuff, which he is not interested in. He likes technology oriented subjects.

There might be an active homeschool group in the area. The group here does a weekly co-op with PE and other classes taught by parents or community professionals. In the past our group has had tea party etiquette taught by the owner of a tea room, photography taught multiple times by a local photographer, one of the parents is a certified art teacher and usually does an art class. The little kids take science group activities with the parks and recreations people. One parent is a native Spanish speaker and teaches Spanish classes. One parent runs the yearbook, which is actually quite professional looking every year. There have been a variety of other things, a video history series, crafting, card making, etc.

They switch off every other year between a culture fair and a science fair. They do a very nice graduation ceremony for both Kindergarten and 12th grade. There is a nice teen group that meets once a month outside of classes for activities, and the smaller kids meet for play time at the area parks. It isn't directly affiliated, but there is also a group that teaches music classes, band, and orchestra to the homeschoolers. This is just a small group. Maybe 50-75 kids coming from a 3 county area. Homeschooling is a fairly big movement nowadays, so there are little groups all over the place, maybe closer than you think.