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MiahClone
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23 Jun 2013, 10:35 pm

The Sprout (almost 5, only diagnosed so far with social skills in the 5th percentile) has been focused on death and dying for quite a while. Every game he plays with toys and every story he tells tends to go something like this: he lines up his toys, picks up the first one in the line and it fights the next one. He usually has one hero that fights all the rest of the line. "Toy A is killing Toy B! Toy B has 30 hit points left! Toy A punched Toy B!" etc. (I think all of this is like video game kind of death) He'll also say that he is going to kill the cats or that he wants them to die (He likes to screech at them or jump at them to make them run, but he's never been truly violent toward them.)

But a couple days ago he said he was angry and said, "I want Mimi to die! I'm going to get a knife and stab her!"

We told him very seriously that he cannot say things like. That it will get him into serious trouble. I know he doesn't understand that. I don't know how to convey the seriousness of this to him, or how to get him to stop. We've tried to stop him with the death talk in the past, with zero success, but this one felt different.



auntblabby
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24 Jun 2013, 1:15 am

where did he get these various violent mental images from?



MiahClone
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24 Jun 2013, 1:24 am

Stabbing things with a knife, I don't know. The rest from super hero cartoons and video games...oh crap I bet I know where the knife thing came from.

There is this kid movie called Arthur and the Invisibles and in part three there are knives being pointed at people.



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24 Jun 2013, 1:28 am

it would seem to me a matter of getting rid of all violent imagery in the house [that he can see], that means in games and on tv. comic books even need to be scrutinized. every time he emulates violence he needs to be taken out of that situation [time out and/or forcefully getting in his face and saying in full adult voice NO VIOLENCE!]. this needs to be nipped in the bud.



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24 Jun 2013, 6:31 am

Get rid of the violent games and TV shows. ASAP!! !


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Schneekugel
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24 Jun 2013, 6:56 am

Gotta agree with that, Todays cartoons and specially the asiatic one are often based on fighting all the time, being forced to become the strongest and showing that by beating all others and so on.... I dont think that they are suitable for kids below 10. Yop, I mean pokemon and sailor moon and all that harmless stuff as well. Even stuff as "the kickers" or "Mila the volleyballplayer" isnt suitable for kids in my eyes because of them having a strong narcisstic attitude, telling little kids that "they are never allowed to loose" and gnagnagna... instead of the simply "play the best you can, have fun and care for each other" like it should be around that age. Knocking your heads in competition you can do with 14 as well. ^^ Sadly that means that most of the cartoon channels are not suitable for little kids.

Maybe you could try on the internet to find stuff you like, so a childsuitable form of the Huckleberry Finn tales as example and so on. The old series are often much more based on human communication and interaction with each others instead of "Ugha-Haginara! You damaged my honor! I´ll damage your head in return! Hypershadowmoondiginonsensefireball!" So specially when your child has aspergers and issues with social interaction, if he must watch TV then try to find stuff that is not focusing on being a narcistic self-centered Japano-hero that only thinks about himself, but something that shows children interacting with each others. If you were living around central europe I would recommend you stuff like the scandinavian "Pipi Langstrump" and so on, where its not about fighting but simply about experienting and sharing adventures with friends, exploring the neighborhood and struggling with grown olds. I am sure, there will be similar stuff available around the US-area as well or homepages that can recommend you similar series that are suitable for the age of your kid. :)

Before anyone gets me wrong, there are great asian manga stories, like the classic Akira, but neither are these anime-fighting-all-day-becoming-the-strongest series nor are most of the good classic Manga suitable for 5 years old, just as "Schindlers list" or "Soldier James Ryan" simply isnt suitable for 5 years old.



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24 Jun 2013, 11:52 am

MMJMOM wrote:
Get rid of the violent games and TV shows. ASAP!! !


Sorry but this is all but impossible. Make sure the TV, movies and games are appropriate for his age but even Lego cartoons and games involve cartoon violence. I think the effort needs to be put into helping him make the distinction between cartoon/TV/video game violence and real-life violence. Watch with him and when you see characters fighting, use it as a teaching moment. Do this over and over again. As he grows older it will be harder and harder to prevent him from seeing violence in the media and you might as well start now helping him understand the difference between the TV and real life.



MiahClone
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24 Jun 2013, 12:05 pm

We don't watch any anime, even Pokemon. It is mainly superheroes. My oldest's special interest is Marvel. The Sprout's interest (outside playing Angry Birds--he's never been that into the merchandise) is Super Hero Squad. He has a whole collection of squaddies that he keeps in a bag. The only truly non-violent shows I can find are things aimed at toddlers, and since he thinks he is all grown up, I usually can't get him to watch those.

We have cut way back on what he gets to watch. The talk hasn't slowed down at all. And then we run into things that I don't expect, and if he's seen something once it is forever available to his memory.

Any ideas on how to address what we've already got?



auntblabby
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24 Jun 2013, 4:27 pm

the OP will have to get a bit medieval with her son, to let him know in no uncertain terms what will not be tolerated. and this must be consistent.



chris5000
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24 Jun 2013, 10:53 pm

you have to explain it that way and the actual consequences of saying such things in a clear calm way probably repeatedly. that is what worked for me



MMJMOM
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25 Jun 2013, 6:07 am

knowing he has a tendency to carry over what he watches/plays, I would still recommend getting rid of the violence, while WORKING with him on learning appropriate play. My 4yo and my 7yo watch Nick Jr. Preschool shows. My 7yo still watches them too! it can be done. I explain to him that the other shows are meant for older kids and he is fine with it. What is good is mos of the shows have age ranges and the ones that I DONT want him to watch say 9+,and he is logical and sees it and doesn't argue. When he is 9 I hope he is more mature and able to understand we don't act out those cartoons!

ALSO he has friends who watch those other shows, and I explain to him that its fine for them. I explain how he has some issues controlling his behavior and give examples, and also examples how he imitates his shows, and that it would he hard for him to watch those shows and not imitate them at this point, but not forever! He is agreeable with that too.


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J- 8, diagnosed Aspergers and ADHD possible learning disability due to porcessing speed, born with a cleft lip and palate.
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M-, who would be 6 1/2, my forever angel baby
E- 1 year old!! !


DW_a_mom
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25 Jun 2013, 11:54 am

On my experience, five year olds are morbid. I remember being freaked out by a child I was babysitting decades ago.

What I did with my kids was work on context. In most cartoons, the bad guys are violent but the good guys outwit, and that is how they win. Point it out.

We also had rules that pretend play cannot include killing people or pointing guns at them. If those things happen, you go to "jail" (timeout).

As for wishing someone dead, remind him he doesn't really want that, since you'd never come back, and help him find a more appropriate and accurate way to express his feelings. "I'm so mad at you that I can't look at you right now."

Also, spend time talking about what death is and answering his questions.

I know it is hard not to freak out, but these are teaching moments.


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MiahClone
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25 Jun 2013, 12:48 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
On my experience, five year olds are morbid. I remember being freaked out by a child I was babysitting decades ago.

What I did with my kids was work on context. In most cartoons, the bad guys are violent but the good guys outwit, and that is how they win. Point it out.

We also had rules that pretend play cannot include killing people or pointing guns at them. If those things happen, you go to "jail" (timeout).

As for wishing someone dead, remind him he doesn't really want that, since you'd never come back, and help him find a more appropriate and accurate way to express his feelings. "I'm so mad at you that I can't look at you right now."

Also, spend time talking about what death is and answering his questions.

I know it is hard not to freak out, but these are teaching moments.


We do have the gun pointing rule--his dad is in a job that involves being armed, so gun safety is a lot bigger topic here than most houses, and thankfully, superheroes rarely use guns. We're just going to have to be more strict on the time out for killing talk in his play.

He likes the villains. I remember someone else posting a while ago that their kid about his age liked the villains, and wants to be a villain. Maybe the villain liking thing is a stage some of them go through at this age. He actually likes some of the heroes now, but when he's in trouble, he'll say things like, "Well, I LIKE being bad! I want to be like Dr. Doom when I grow up!" Which I think is more about him trying to deflect and hide his hurt feelings than about him actually liking to be bad.

So maybe this extreme talk has more to do with not being to express his feelings in a socially acceptable manner than anything. Mimi is my step-mom, btw. The kid is crazy attached to me. We were talking about going to see Mimi, and he thought we were going to leave him there, which is when he said he wanted her to die and he was going to stab her. He's said a bunch of times before that he hates her, and even a few times that he wishes she would die, but never with some kind of specific plan like that, and the scary serious tone he said it in. (He likes being at her house once he is over there. He just doesn't like the transition of caregivers.)

I don't think we've handled any of those times (including the stabbing one) very effectively. I don't think getting "Medieval" on him is going to be an effective idea. It's like spanking a kid for hitting his sister--so basically telling him that hitting is bad while you are hitting him. Only in this case hitting him while telling him that violence in general isn't acceptable. I dread time outs so bad, especially when I am here alone with him, because they almost end with him getting so worked up that he gets completely out of control hitting himself, banging his head, that sort of thing. And then I am left thinking both "Who just got punished?" and "Well, <i>that</i> was effective (sarcasm)"

So. Less TV. More talk about real/not real and Heroes vs villains. Help him with labeling emotions and expressing them appropriately (that alexithymia thread got me to thinking that he does pretty much label everything as happy/sad/angry. Not much in between, and no other description other than, "I am so angry! You're making me sad!"And definitely less freaking out.



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25 Jun 2013, 2:45 pm

Maybe this is a bit off topic, maybe not. I saw somethings in the following post that I thought would be really good for folks here to read:

Quote:
Strengthening brain wiring to control impulses/emotions!

Recent brain research has identified that many on the spectrum have weak neurological connections (neurological pathways) between the different brain centers. These weaker connections make it more difficult for the different brain centers to communicate with one another. This has major influence on the way we process, interpret, and respond to information. This also has major impact on why many people on the spectrum have emotional regulation difficulties; thus poor emotional control problems.

In a very simplistic view, the brain has an “emotion” center (Limbic system) and the “thinking” center (Frontal Cortex). The emotion center is part of the primitive center deeper in the brain, that experiences “raw” emotion. It is the part of the brain that provides immediate raw emotion and the fight or flight reaction. The thinking center (pre-frontal lobes) provides us the ability to immediately inhibit our raw emotion long enough to appraise and evaluate the degree of threat, and taper down our emotional reaction. It allows us to control our impulses, by overriding our primitive raw emotions. This inhibiting, appraising, and overriding ability of the cortex can only occur if the neurological pathways from the “thinking” center to the “emotion “ center are strong enough to keep the emotional impulses in check.

Now, if these communication pathways are underdeveloped and weak, then the thinking center cannot not quickly inhibit the emotional response long enough to appraise and override the reaction. Hence the person emotionally goes from 0-100 quickly, over-reacts, and also takes much longer to calm down. The overwhelming emotional tidal wave quickly sets off the “fight or flight” response, which overpowers the “thinking center’s” ability to inhibit it. The person reacts more from the primitive survival (emotion) center than from the “thinking” (appraising, evaluating) part of the brain. In order for the brain to be able to cognitively appraise, assess, and evaluate what is needed, it has to be able to inhibit the immediate response from the emotion center (Limbic System).

In normal development the Limbic System (emotion center) exists at birth. The “thinking” center (pre-frontal cortex) is the slowest to develop; gradually developing throughout childhood and early adulthood. That is why infants and young children have poor impulse control and weak ability to regulate their emotions. As the nervous system matures over the years, the thinking center develops and exerts more control over the emotion center. The person becomes able to inhibit his impulses, appraise the situation, plan a course of action, think about the consequences of his actions, monitor and evaluate the effects of his behavior. However, in autism, if the neurological connections are underdeveloped and the communication is weak between these two centers, the thinking center will not be as able to immediately inhibit the strong reactions from the emotion center. They are more likely to act on impulse, even though they can tell you later that they shouldn’t have. They are more likely to be overwhelmed and emotionally reactive. Also, when they cannot be confident that their “thinking” center will inhibit these reactive emotional responses, they are more anxious about being emotionally reactive. This increased anxiety further hinders their “thinking brain’s “ abilities to inhibit and control their reactive emotion center. The person becomes anxious and apprehensive when experiencing emotion and panics easily from fear of losing emotional control. They cannot trust that their thinking center will be able to control their emotional responses. This insecurity leaves them feeling vulnerable in any situations that may overwhelm them.

Given the nature of this weakness, how can we help? Research on brain plasticity has shown we can strengthen neurological pathways by exercising them. If that is true, then we should (in theory) be able to strengthen the neurological pathways that connect the “thinking” center to the “emotion” center, to become better able to inhibit and control our emotional reactions. We can do this in children by activating the “thinking” center early enough to inhibit the “emotion center”. By activating the “thinking center” earlier, and practicing “think before we act” strategies, we can strengthen the neurological pathways that allow the thinking center to inhibit and override the emotion center.

Young children, and individuals on the spectrum often become so overwhelmed with emotion that they do not, or cannot, activate the thinking center into action soon enough. We can help the child strengthen this ability by:

1. Continually model for the children how to “think things through”. How to stop and think, before acting. How to appraise how threatening a situation is, assess what is needed, plan an response, and execute and monitor the action. Parents can do this by “thinking out loud” as they go through the day. Slowing things down and “thinking out loud” how they appraise and evaluate what to do and how to do it. They can “think out loud” as they face simple challenges in their daily routine.

2. In addition, parents can help the children learn to “think” their way through things;, to stop and think, as the children do things throughout the day. Do the activities with the child, slowing them down, and “thinking it out” together; appraising what is needed, how to do it, and monitor how well they are doing. Mentoring how to appraise, monitor, and evaluate. This process activates the “thinking” center of the brain, making it stronger and more automatic in response. We need to activate the “thinking” center to inhibit the emotion center. We need to practice this strategy throughout the day to engrain activating the “thinking center” in all daily activity. This will strengthen the “thinking” functions to become better at inhibiting the reactions from the emotion center.

3. Parents can also help the child practice and role play using these “thinking” (problem solving) strategies for situations that commonly cause strong emotional reactions for the child. We do this by making a list of common, frustrating situations for the child. We write out each one on an index card. Next we make a problem solving worksheet with four questions on it: (1) what is the problem, (2) why is it a problem, (3) what are possible options, and (4) what are the possible effects of each option? Essentially a “think it through” worksheet. Then each day we pick a couple of problem cards and use the worksheet to “think it through.” In addition, as new situations crop up, we write them on index cards and add them to the stack to practice. This way we are using real life situations that common for the child. This is a very laborious approach at first, but teaches the child pre-appraised solutions to common issues for them, plus teaches them to “stop and think” before hitting boiling point. It becomes easier and quicker as times goes on.

4. Next, the parents and children need to identify early signs of apprehension and agitation, so that they can intervene early, help the child “stop and think”, and activate the “thinking” brain center early enough to inhibit their emotional reactions. It is very important that this process is activated early in the emotional chain so that it is easier to inhibit the emotional reaction before they become overwhelming. In addition, we usually start off by programming little snags into the children’s day, that will present the “just right” challenge, so the children can practice using their “thinking strategies”. They first learn to use these skills under manageable situations, before trying to tackle more problematic events. With the parents help in scaffolding these events for success, the children become stronger in using their “thinking” brain to inhibit and control their “emotional” brain.

As the child learns to activate their “thinking” center quicker and more efficiently, they strengthen the neurological connections between the brain centers, and become more confident in controlling their emotional impulses. Don’t expect this to occur overnight. It needs frequent and long term practice to develop these neurological connections.



MiahClone
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25 Jun 2013, 7:21 pm

That's really relevant, I think, Bombaloo. Thank you.



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25 Jun 2013, 8:22 pm

We struggled (still a little bit) with violent language from DS for years - most of which was scripting off of TV shows. It's really part of a pragmatic speech issue: first of all, he doesn't nuance his language so it's very black and white ("I'm annoyed" became "I want to kill you") and second of all he didn't understand that TV language is not for common speech.

This is not to say that DS wasn't also angry, violent, and at one point suicidal, and a lot of that had to do with him not being able to make sense of the rules of the world. However, the language problem was sort of a separate issue overlaid on top of that. We didn't have good help when he was little, but if I had it to do over again, I'd provide him an alternate script, e.g:
(him) "I'm going to kill the babysitter!" (you)"Oh, you mean to say 'I'm really very upset with you, ________!' Thanks for letting us know!"

When we were fairly certain that DS had a handle on the language he was supposed to use (he's 12 now, we started this when he was 9 or so) we set up media as a goal for him - he could earn more violent media when he showed us he was able to use the language in it appropriately. At this point, that's how we handle anything that has to do with maturity: we explain to him that behavior X (for instance, swearing) needs to change before he can access media Y, (because, for instance, media Y contains swearing. We make sure to point out the direct connection.) I also tell him if I see backsliding in that area, that media Y will be removed as an option and he will have to earn it back.

There's a list of prosocial media somewhere on this board; you might take a look and see if there are shows or games that will actually help him learn to handle conflict appropriately.