Kids 'outing' themselves

Post Reply New Topic

Have you ever been around smaller kids who just nonchalantly tell people something along the lines of, "I'm throwing things at you and not listening to my parents, because my autism is acting up and it makes me make bad choices sometimes."

I literally had this conversation with an 8 year old a few weeks ago. He is autistic/Asperger's, the way he was behaving was probably autism related. He was at my house for the first time, past his bedtime, after they'd travel troubles that made the twenty minute drive to my house take an hour and a half. Nothing he was doing was bothering me, it was stuff that I see in my youngest all the time, especially on a rough day like that, but for some reason to hear him say it like that just made me unsettled.

Was I being judgmental? Even with my kids and all the stuff they've done in public and other people's houses, my kneejerk reaction is STILL judgmental and then the second thought is understanding (Although in this case, I already knew and expected him to not be acting NT). Anyway, I am always trying to identify in myself when I am being a jerk, so I can correct it.

Do you generally spread the diagnosis widely with your smaller kids? Do you tell them, so that they can tell others like that? I'm more used to people on here saying they haven't told their kids this age, I guess. (Not really an option for this boy. His older brother is severely nonverbal autistic, so he definitely knows what it is.)

I think what is in unsettling is that he's able to articulate why he is throwing things and not listening. It makes it sound like he has control over it, is choosing to misbehave, and is making excuses (no idea whether this is really the case or not). If you got the same explanation from the parents it wouldn't be so odd.

That is the worst kind of bratty excuse-making and the sort of BS that ultimately makes everyone with AS look bad.

Even if my parents had known about my Autism at that age, they would have tanned my backside for a remark like that. Never would I have been allowed to us a disability as an excuse for rudeness or vandalism.

There is a huge difference between an emotional meltdown and a willful temper tantrum and even children with Autism should not be allowed to use one as an excuse to indulge in the other.

Hearing stories like that actually makes me think not knowing about my Autism until adulthood may have had some advantages, because I was not allowed to "explain away" bad behavior and escape the consequences.

It's a tough call to share a diagnosis with a kid who probably doesn't have any sense of the social propriety/impropriety rules about it - it is THEIR neurology, after all...and it's hard to tell just how something will hash out.

I am guessing you just ran into a new variety of the many socially inappropriate things an AS kid might say. Sadly, most people are going to judge the kid - like the "undiagnosed Asperger's" girl on Glee - as "faking it," without realizing that he probably doesn't understand the social rule about diagnoses being private.

We are in the process of trying to figure out how to tell our son, and this is one of the worries I have.

Right now, he will follow up an "inappropriate act" with an explanation like, "but I was so angry.
or "Such and such did this and it made me mad,." So, yeah, I could totally see him saying something like that. He would not say it matter-of-fact, but he would say it at the tail end of a meltdown.

He does not yet understand (despite being told a lot) that just b/c he feels out of control doesn't give him the right to act out of control, if that makes sense, the way I am phrasing it. To him it feels natural and he doesn't feel in control of it. It is hard to get him to understand this is a skill he needs to learn. Also, he has no idea that there are things you don't say, even if you are thinking it. I know what he means when he says this kind of thing, but needless to say not everyone does.

I've read that by first grade most kids are ready to be told. I think you should tell them as soon as you think they might be able to understand it. Certainly by first or second grade they are going to notice that they are different. Not telling them seems cruel. Regarding the boy in the OP perhaps he was trying to say that he was feeling very disregulated. I say kudos to him for being able to express himself so openly. It seems so much of DS's frustration comes from not being able to communicate how he is feeling. As he has improved in expressing himself more, other things improve too.

That would disturb me in my child because there seems to be a lack of ownership for his actions. My son went through a period where he would destroy his glasses almost once a month during meltdowns. There were consequences for this (no new video games, etc.) It wasn't quite meant as punishment, but to let him know that he is held accountable for his actions. We would sit down and talk later when he was calm about how x is happening because he did y, and the reasons for it.

I think this is important for kids to realize to the best of their ability. It can give them more of a sense of empowerment and control of their lives as they mature. Not every child has the same abilities, but the fact that the child could grasp and articulate so much gives me pause.

I don't think kids should hide their diagnosis, or have it hidden from them. It's nothing to be ashamed of, and they may internalize it that way if it's presented as something to keep quiet about.

Like most things, it depends on the kid you have, and your circumstances. My son is exceedingly socially impaired, so he really can be that oblivious, and also have it not bother him to the extent he notices it. It is also not a good idea to rush it, b/c letting your kid know he is "weird" (not that I would say it that way, but I think that is what it can translate into) when he does not notice it and/or it doesn't seem a problem can be bad, too.

As always, your mileage can vary.

This seems to be what a spoiled brat would say when he wants to get away with bad behavior.

For him, it's just an excuse.

I think it is important to be very careful before you levy this kind of charge against a child with a social communication disorder. An NT kid might well use this tactic, and there might be kids with AS who do - but it requires a pretty sophisticated understanding of social norms, social language use and theory of mind that a LOT of kids on the spectrum just don't have.

For instance, here are some of the required "givens" that need to be understood to be able to use that phrase in that way:

1. That the word "autism" is a shocking thing to say that will get the attention of a near stranger
2. That near strangers might agree (right or wrong) that autistic people throw things and don't listen, and NT kids don't
3. That there is a connection between behavior and indirectly related circumstances like a different neurology
4. That near strangers sometimes give individuals with known disabilities a "pass" on bad behavior
5. That throwing things and not listening to parents is unusual enough to require an explanation
6. That something needs to be said to the near stranger because there might be a judgement about the bad behavior which might result in something like a punishment, a report to parents, or a shaming of the family
7. That throwing things and not listening are universally considered to be bad behavior.

I'm sure there are more. Just from what was written here, I'm guessing this child understood some of these things, but definitely not all of them, and not enough of them to be able to say with certainty that he was "using autism as an excuse."

I think it's equally important to point out the obvious, even if it seems unpleasant.

While the child may actually have an Autism Spectrum Disorder, it is fair to point out that if he is aware that his behavior is bad, and uses his Autism to justify the bad behavior without changing his behavior, it is likely because he knows that he can get away with being disruptive.

I once knew a kid whose parents were convinced that he had a heart condition. "Don't let him get tired" was what the doctor told them. So, for about 10 years, the kid knew that all he had to say was "Mom, I'm tired" and he would get out of whatever chores his dad had assigned to him.

Kids will use any excuse to get away with doing whatever they want.

I did not say that it's not possible, I said that we should be very careful in making this assumption, because the deck is stacked against it.

My own son does not appear to be disabled in any way, and people say this about him all the time - which at one point nearly drove him to suicide, because not only was he struggling, people also told him he was making up the struggle "to get attention," "to get away with bad behavior," etc., etc.

I think this straw man assumption is a very common and very serious problem for our kids, significantly more common than that kids might use autism as "an excuse," in large part because creating excuses requires a very complex collection of advanced thinking in the specific areas where autistic children have deficits.

I do not mean that kids on the spectrum shouldn't be held accountable for their behavior or the things they say, but that making sure that caregivers frame the situation correctly is of critical importance. "The child is using his disability to get away with stuff and therefore is a brat" is a very, very dangerous frame to use even if it may, on some occasions, be right.

For one thing - how, exactly, does that frame guide your own behavior? What happens if you tell the child not to say they're autistic to "get out of stuff;" do you think they have the capability to understand when that applies and when it doesn't? Are you setting them up to stop asking for accommodations and help when they do need them? Does thinking of your child as a "manipulative brat" make you a calmer parent or an angrier one?

For us, letting go of this straw man was in large part what saved our family.

The kid is wrong, but I have to admit that I find his behavior very clever.

Looking at the phrase "my autism made me do it", it seems to imply

-Fnord' s point, that the diagnosis is a shield for being held accountable

or

-A Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde explanation given to the child-"my autism is something bad and distinct from who I am".


As a parent also on the spectrum, I understand both sides here and have been where your child has. That doesn't mean we should discount point one entirely, but to be warier about applying it. Autistic kids are still kids, just with their own unique set of challenges.

Thanks, 3M! For a while there, I though I was going to be the only one looking at it from this perspective.

What I've described is the social game "Wooden Leg", from the book "Games People Play", by Dr. Eric Berne.

So, "What do you expect of a little boy with Autism?" is what the kid in the OP seems to be saying. Put that way, of course, no one would expect anything of a child with Autism except that he should misbehave.

Kid's got it all gamed, I'll say that much for him.

I am mostly confused about not having your kids know they have ASD from the start... What are the reasons for not telling / explaining immediately and continously from baby/toddler until they grow into adulthood?