Will ABA therapy help with violence?

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The hospital's ABA program called me last week (was supposed to be on the waiting list for 7 months and it's only been 2 months) and I am debating whether to try it for my 13 year old aspergers daughter. She got into the aspergers class for high school next year and I was thinking that may be enough help for her because she is resistant to attending any programs for aspergers at all, except school. If I do the program, I will have to spend my Saturdays in the parents portion of the program for 6 weeks and I am not sure it is worth it, with the craziness of getting everything done on the weekends as a single mom. But she is getting increasingly violent at home and I wonder if the ABA therapy can help with this at all?

Yesterday I spent an hour using all my strength to get her away from her sister because she kept attacking her. She even threw a jar of cream at her which caused swelling on her cheek. I had been in the shower and her sister got mad at her for chewing on one of my expensive books. This triggered my daughter and there was nothing I could do but keep pulling her away from her sister. I tried to get her to go in her room to play games and calm down, but she would rush out and go into her sister's room. If her sister wasn't there to jump on and attack, she would grab everything on the dresser and try to smash the mirror and break her things. I would grab her and get her out of the room which infuriated her more. She was throwing everything she could in the bathroom too and even hit me so many times with a listerine bottle. She is taller and stronger than I am and it was getting so tiring and stressful with her kicking and hitting me, I dialed 911 and she slammed the phone down and cut my finger. I have never actually called the police on her, but I almost did yesterday. I know it would be awful for her if they took her from home, but she looked like she was possessed yesterday, trying to bite me, hitting me, throwing herself into stuff and screaming awful obscenities. I just don't have any clue what to do with her when she is like this.

Finally, after she saw I was bleeding and had almost called the police, I was exhausted and crying "What is the matter. Why are you acting like this?" Then she burst into tears and wanted a hug and told me she was really hungry. So I made her something to eat and she was fine the rest of the day.

I know you are supposed to prevent meltdowns, but so many things are triggers for her that it seems impossible.

Yes. Do it. Try it and drop it if you hate it.

The school program may solve things, but now she's gotten you upset and at 13 if you're in the US school will not offer you support and will expect you to behave calmly, whereas the hospital program staff will talk to you and consider your whole family's needs hopefully.

Can the hospital program start soon? September is a long time to wait for the school program.

The hospital program is likely going to have another long waiting list - I believe this initial appointment is a needs assessment to see what programs would benefit our family. Once they figure this out, who knows how long it will be on that waiting list.

You are right that I should try it and if I hate it, I can drop it. I am realizing that I am going to need some help for on how to deal with her at home because yesterday was just awful. Sometimes I worry the neighbours will call the police or child protection because the windows are now open and lord knows what they hear coming from my apartment.

Well you can only do your very best, nothing more. And maybe they can suggest more help at the needs assessment. I hope so for you.

If they are going to do FBAs as part of it (functional behavior analysis) it might help.


Basically they would figure out specifically why she is doing what she is doing--sensory issues, communication issues, lagging skills in things like frustration tolerance or in transitions for example , and figure out how best to approach things to avoid meltdowns and hopefully, work on those skills. We have never "done" ABA but the FBA process is one that makes sense to me, and I do my own ad hoc version of it.

So in the example you gave, you could try to figure out if anything specific triggered the chewing, and have a protocol for it that she will find equal to or better than chewing on books. If she does still chew books, your other daughter might be advised to handle it in a different way to avoid meltdowns. (I am not saying your other daughter was wrong, but chastising her sister might be problematic.)

She does have something specifically to chew on that we bought her and I did ask her sister to give it to her instead next time. Now that I have had time to think about things, I feel that it could have gone so differently. I wonder if I had asked her right off what the matter was, would she have been able to tell me right away she was hungry? I did tell her sister that she shouldn't have chastised her and I would have dealt with the book chewing when I got dressed. In hindsight, there always seems to be a better way to handle things and we haven't had such a bad episode in months it seems, so I find it almost a shock to see how quickly things can escalate with the three of us.

Can you call the hospital and ask them if their program addresses violent behavior, and if so how much focus is on that particular issue? It seems like something they should be able tell you.

Yes I will ask them that when I call them back tomorrow. Really it is the main issue I have with my daughter - emotion regulation and I would love some good strategies on how to help our family during these episodes.

Managing "me" was probably the hardest part about learning to help my son manage his meltdowns. We have to see it first, and drop EVERYTHING to move into diversion as quickly as possible. NOTHING is ever more important than seeing the signs and moving into mitigation, and you have to get yourself into that mindset.

I never did ABA.

I will say that my NT daughter was subject to physical rages until just a few years ago, and I never fully figured out why. Hers were rages, not meltdowns, and she never exhibited the physical changes that I noticed in my son preceding a meltdown. She just suddenly rages; she has this anger and she needs to get it out. She isn't overloaded and her mind isn't jumbled; she is ANGRY. She still does it, but because of developmental maturity she seems to have lost the need to be physical, and now is verbally abusive instead (still working on it, obviously). For her, having any regular physical activity that allows her to focus negative energy seems to reduce the volume of incidents.

Which I bring up only because the protocol to use is going to depend on which you have. Rage or meltdown. Or maybe various versions of both. Still, with the facial expression you described, I am definitely thinking meltdown.

I agree with DW. In order to help child with emotion regulation, we have to be strong role models. It isn't easy when child, or teen, is dysregulated to be calm. But it helps a lot.

And in order to stay calm in the face of rage or meltdown, you need someone to lean on to help you figure things out but also to know you aren't alone.

Also, wanted to post a reminder that there's a LOT of information stickied at the top of this forum, and there are several subsections in the Parenting Index you might want to read through. Lots of us have been there.

Someone posted a study about autism and violence a while back, and I was really struck by one finding: rigidity and violence are often connected. We were in the same boat, but DS got himself under control at about age 10; there were LOTS of pieces to it (and all of it's outlined in posts linked in the index.)

You can't avoid all the triggers, you're right - but the fact that your daughter is triggered so easily is probably due to an underlying, severe issue. My son was the same - his main issue was good speaking skills with a severe pragmatics delay - I finally realized that he was only understanding about 70% of every interaction, and from his point of view people were always getting angry or frustrated with him for no apparent reason. We haven't even addressed the pragmatics issue yet, but what we DID do was make sure that DS understood it. He now knows that if things don't seem right, he needs to figure out if he missed something.

I'm not saying your daughter's issue is pragmatics (but keep in mind it is common in kids with AS, and frequently overlooked/undermanaged.) but that you should put your detective hat on and try to figure out the MAJOR thing that is scaring or confusing her. The reason why ABA often works in this situation is because, as a previous poster mentioned, the first step is an FBA. That's the piece you really need right now - an in-depth analysis of the antecedents and consequences (good and bad) of her behavior. Look for the BIG patterns and see if anything jumps out at you.

Hindsight is how I figured out most of the things that I think I know. After awhile you can see patterns and anticipate, but the early going is all hindsight. Then something new pops up and throws you off, again.

ABA can mean different things to different people, but if she's having problems at home, a 6 week parent training program can't hurt. The most useful skills would be to really understand and be able to implement a reinforcement system customized to your child, and to understand the functions of her behaviors and ways to teach her effective skills to get those needs met without the problem behavior (DRA - differential reinforcement of alternative behaviors). Behavioral consultations may also help, since they would be more individually tailored to your child than parent training classes, but anything that can help you get started is a good thing.

Based on your brief description of the problem, I'm assuming that whatever you have been doing isn't working (or isn't working enough), so taking some time to rethink those strategies is not a waste, even if it doesn't wind up getting you all the way where you want to be. At the very least, you can ask questions in the class and see what the professional teaching the course or other parents have to contribute.

I'm so sorry that you're going through this!! You have so very much on your plate. I wish I could give all three of you a hug.

Question - has your daughter always been violent, or has it evolved over the last few years? I ask because at her age, there are so many hormonal changes that could be influencing her impulse control and therefore, her behavior. Have you thought about maybe putting her on the pill? I know, she's very young for that. But, regulating her hormones might help her regulate her moods. I'm not a doctor, so please take this with a grain of salt - I'm really just wracking my brain for things that may help. Good luck, and Godspeed!

You mean birth control? I was put on that in seventh grade because of hormones and I wasn't so sensitive anymore and I was less angry in school from my peers. It also helped with my periods too and made them regular and lighter.

Yes, I meant birth control. I'm glad to hear that it helped you! I think a lot of times we think outbursts are behavioral when they really are biochemical. I'm NT, but I remember having a really hard time with self-control in those early teen years. I felt crazy a lot of the time. It's probably a lot harder for folks on the spectrum.