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RetroGamer87
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11 Sep 2015, 6:01 pm

All the girls I've dated, including the one I'm involved with at the moment, say they want to have kids. At first I was shocked by this. I felt like it would ruin my life, like I would be living a totally selfless life dedicated only to them and not my self.

However, I befriended one of my neighbors who has a five year old son and he actually managed to make parenthood seem enjoyable, not horrible. Anyway, any girl I get involved with insists it's a good idea. Usually they just take it for granted that they should have kids and react with shock when I don't.

So my question to you parents is, do you enjoy being a parent and if yes, what do you enjoy about being a parent?


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BuyerBeware
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11 Sep 2015, 6:20 pm

On the whole, yes, I enjoy being a parent. It is one of the most fun, most interesting, and most rewarding (and also most nerve-wracking and most challenging) things I have done in my adult life. Probably THE MOST. Definitely THE MOST, if I have to check ALL of those boxes.

I will not tell you that I love everything about being a parent. I don't. I don't love meltdowns, or enforcing bedtime, or dishing out discipline, or sending them off to school. I don't love defiance or sibling fights or whining. I love babies and toddlers, but I don't love being dependent on decoding their nonverbal communication, and I enjoy them much more after they learn to say "Yes" and "No."

If someone says they do enjoy everything about being a parent, they are lying. Period. Either that, or they're drinking from the same Kool-Aid pitcher as Michelle Duggar (who I actually respect and in some ways admire, but good God woman, give yourself permission to say "s**t" when you've got a mouthful!!). My grandmother loves kids more than anyone I've ever met, has more patience for kidshit than any five people I've ever met, and is incredibly passive-aggressive with a horrible phobia of saying anything negative ever, and even she wouldn't tell you that she absolutely loved everything about being a parent.

If anyone tells you that parenting is total, utter, complete, unmitigated, endless self-sacrifice with no time whatsoever left for self, they're either manipulating you, lying, psychotic, really resent parenting, doing it wrong, or some and/or all of the above. Definitely either lying or doing it wrong.

Being a parent DOES involve self-sacrifice. And a lot of self-control. It DOES NOT involve utter and complete self-sacrifice. That's a crock of conservative Christian prayer-book lily-white BS. I guilted myself about that for years. All it did was deprive Oldest Daughter of energy I could have been gathering from enjoying myself and bringing to doing things with her. I tried being completely and utterly self-sacrificing with my husband and kids. It gave me a nervous breakdown, made my middle two kids into spoiled ungovernable brats that I had to train back into humans, and still might destroy our marriage.

If you are utterly and completely self-sacrificing and self-effacing, you are going to raise poorly adjusted spoiled brats with no concept of boundaries and a monstrous sense of entitlement.

There's a slogan that the ultra-conservatives are fond of. "JOY. JESUS first, OTHERS second, YOURSELF last." I looked at that for years as meaning "Yourself NEVER." I got really sick. Now I tend to think of it as an order of operations: "First you take care of Jesus (or being a morally decent and prosocial human being). Then you take care of others. And then you make damn good and sure you take care of yourself, because if you don't, you won't have anything to give to the first two."

In parenting as in marriage, be altruistic first and foremost-- but don't forget to put on your own dang oxygen mask too.

It's not a sin to read a book or surf the Internet while the kids play.

It is a sin to read a book and surf the Internet ALL DAY without picking up the house, running errands, making sure people get fed, doing the laundry, seeing that the homework gets done, calling my old granny, and taking some time to play with the kids.


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RetroGamer87
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11 Sep 2015, 7:31 pm

Well BuyerBeware that's quite a rational response. So I guess parenting is enjoyable but I shouldn't sugarcoat it.

BuyerBeware wrote:
Being a parent DOES involve self-sacrifice. And a lot of self-control. It DOES NOT involve utter and complete self-sacrifice. That's a crock of conservative Christian prayer-book lily-white BS.
It is? I wasn't really thinking about it religiously. I was just thinking about time and money. For example, I'd have to spend about $6,000 per year to send one child to school. I wouldn't be so cruel as to make them go to the nearby public school. I went there myself. I know how horrible it is. The teachers there only care about themselves. So it's either private school or move to a neighborhood that pays higher property taxes, leading to more funding for the schools (so unfair, making kids in poor neighborhoods go to underfunded schools so it perpetuates the poverty cycle.

Poor kids deserve a chance at actually getting into college to but my school never explained how. I even heard a rumour that private schools get more government funding per head than public schools that have to rely entirely on government funding. Anyway, it just bugs me that I have to spend a lot of money on a child but not even in a way he'll enjoy. I'd feel sort of sad telling him he can't have any toys because I have to pay for a school that gives him twice as much homework. I guess I have to apply the same thinking to myself. I can't repurchase the hundreds video games or $2,000 TV sets I had stolen because in about two years I'll need a deposit for a house. I guess it's about time I grew up.
BuyerBeware wrote:
If you are utterly and completely self-sacrificing and self-effacing, you are going to raise poorly adjusted spoiled brats with no concept of boundaries and a monstrous sense of entitlement.
No I was planning to give them everything, except for stuff they would actually enjoy. Maybe that's a bad idea too. Tiger parenting means they miss out on childhood but I don't want them to grow up to be lazy adolescents like I was. How to find balance between giving them too much to do and too little?
BuyerBeware wrote:
There's a slogan that the ultra-conservatives are fond of. "JOY. JESUS first, OTHERS second, YOURSELF last."
Wow, I thought Jesus wanted his followers to be happy, not miserable. I Googled for that phrase and actually found websites that were using it unironically. It sounds like you've heard that phrase in real life though.
BuyerBeware wrote:
And then you make damn good and sure you take care of yourself, because if you don't, you won't have anything to give to the first two."
True. It's hard enough for me now. Between full time job and night school it's difficult and yet I give myself a guilt trip if I don't spend every moment at home studying because my guilt laden mind tells me other students are studying right now, not resting. My wealthy tiger parenting aunt makes it sound like her teenaged daughter is studying all the time but I should probably take anything she says with a grain of salt. I guess it's not a sin to rest and guilt tripping requires more energy than actual studying.

The trouble is my girlfriend has the makings of a workaholic as well. She insists on doing all the housework and she wants to get a job (yet not spend any of her wages on herself) and if she has to deal with motherhood as well, I think those three activities could be too much for her. I love her dearly and I don't want her to make herself sick from overwork.
BuyerBeware wrote:
It's not a sin to read a book or surf the Internet while the kids play.
Good to know. Anyway, I wouldn't want to watch them too closely or they won't grow up into independent adults, right? If I sound terribly naive that's because I am. In truth I know nothing about this topic but when my girlfriend started saying she wants me to give her two kids I thought it was high time I headed over to Parent's Discussion to talk to people experienced in this.


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justkillingtime
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11 Sep 2015, 8:38 pm

I enjoy/enjoyed being a parent. I think it is important to be able to spend a lot of time with the newborn to bond with the child.

I approached parenting with the attitude that the child and I (I was a single parent) are a team/partners in doing what was in her best interest. She understood she would have to do things she did not want to (homework, manners, housework, etc.) because that would prepare her for a thriving adulthood. I picked my battles and tried to remember how I felt when I was her age.

I went through a short period of being too critical so I told her the nice things I thought and kept a lot of criticism to myself (she was critical of herself).

It was/is the most rewarding part of my life. :D


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Anachron
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11 Sep 2015, 8:55 pm

Nope, it is hell with short moments of sunshine.

If I could do my life over, I would stay away from girls and accomplish my dreams.

Do not have kids if you value any part of your life because it will be systematically eliminated.

If you have nothing else to do with your life and can bear noise, sloppy rooms and chaos, and can cooperate with a female and don't really care for sex or money too much, go for it.



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11 Sep 2015, 9:00 pm

Love it. I hadn't craved having a child because I'd no idea what how special it is. Now I can't believe I didn't realize.

And for me the hardest part isn't the child, it's other people, especially schools.



pddtwinmom
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11 Sep 2015, 10:03 pm

I think it depends on how much social/emotional connection matters to you. I LOVE being a parent. I have two children on the ASD spectrum and it is not easy, because I am NT and am learning as I go. BUT, I love watching them develop and supporting them and I also enjoy knowing that my actions influence how they evolve. I love them completely, plainly and simply. Parenthood is scary and marks the end of pure autonomy, no matter how your brain operates. That is the truth for anyone considering it. Period. BUT, if you can love another person enough to be thinking about it, and you are self-aware enough to know yourself and your own proclivities and still be considering it, then it might just be the BEST thing that you could ever do in your life. Because kids are wonderful and joyous and even though they take hard, hard work, their laughter and innocence makes up for it in spades. And parenthood is the best way of learning what is and is not important in life overall, imo, which helped me immensely in my priorities.



RetroGamer87
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11 Sep 2015, 10:43 pm

pddtwinmom wrote:
Parenthood is scary and marks the end of pure autonomy, no matter how your brain operates.
Anachron wrote:
Do not have kids if you value any part of your life because it will be systematically eliminated.
8O that sounds pretty scary!

Why is that only the women seem to enjoy and not the one guy who answered? Is parenting fun for women and hell for guys?

Maybe if I stick to my night classes and do overtime over the weekend it will still feel like I have autonomy. Being a workaholic is less effort, right? I wonder if I can do a night class PHD in computer science. That should kill a few decades.


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justkillingtime
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11 Sep 2015, 11:29 pm

I think Adamantium and cyberdad enjoy their children and they are males.


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League_Girl
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12 Sep 2015, 1:12 am

I enjoy being a parent because I love my children. Yes it's tough and difficult, it's overwhelming, they drive me crazy but it's also wonderful to make them happy and excited and do things with them. But I think I would miss them if I got rid of them.


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ASDMommyASDKid
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12 Sep 2015, 8:36 am

I enjoy my kids but I do not think you ought to agree to be a parent just so you can pair-bond. That never works well. Deciding to be a work-a-holic just to avoid your future family is a really bad idea, IMO. I know people where one person decided to have kids to make his wife shut up about it (at least I think that may be what happened) and the whole thing turned into an even bigger mess and eventually they divorced and she encouraged him to give up parental rights (which he seemed fine with, and did) so her new husband could adopt the kid. Not a good thing for the kid stuck in that.



InThisTogether
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12 Sep 2015, 9:15 am

Of everything I have done in my life, my kids are the things that I am absolutely certain were done right. You know, I didn't think much of having kids when I was younger. I guess I always assumed I would have them one day, but it was never "the plan." I always thought I would have one, with a live-in nanny, so that I could be busy with my career that involved wearing fashionably sexy business suits.

We didn't have kids when many people start. I was in my mid-thirties, he in his late. Why? I was not ready to give up "my life," we were not financially sound, I was not mature enough, and well... it just didn't sound appealing. Not that I thought kids would ruin my life or be a mistake. Just that I was happy with the way my life was and I wasn't ready for it to change.

Then we decided we were ready. Irritatingly, after years of faithfully practicing "baby-free" sex practices, we found out it wasn't quite so easy to get pregnant (maybe it was because I was a bit older, who knows?), but my plan to have only one child quickly changed when I had him because I realized I wanted more. I also realized I did not want to have a career that involved wearing fashionably sexy business suits. I wanted to be with my son. Damn my decision not to become a school psychologist and have breaks and summers off! :) So, the plan became to have two kids close together, which didn't work either, because baby #2 couldn't manage to come along until #1 was almost 4...not due to lack of trying.

We live in a very expensive part of the States. 1 income will never due. So I do have to work, but if I could just be with my kids, I would be happy. I love being a mom. It is the most fulfilling aspect of my life. That is not to say I love every minute of it, because I don't. But the pros outweigh the cons 100 fold.

When they are younger, you do have to sacrifice parts of yourself. Or at least I did. I think people who say they didn't are either lying, had a unique lifestyle before childhood, or are exposing their kids to things I personally think they should not be exposed to. Between work, my own neurology, their neurology, etc, etc, I was simply too tired for "me" for much of the younger years. But when they get older, you get to do that stuff again, and the super best part of it is when one of your kids enjoys the same things you do. My daughter is unbelievably creative and talented artistically. We converted our dining room into a "Creativity Studio" (we don't even have a dining room table in there).

I would never give my kids back in order to "get back" the years that were more totally devoted to them. Never. It was a very small price to pay for the joy I now have.

I really love my kids. I really enjoy them. I think they are awesome and cool. Neither of them are perfect children. Neither of them are model children. My daughter can be tough. But honestly, looking back to the me of my younger years, I could have never foreseen or predicted how happy they would make me or how complete they would make me feel.

Maybe you just aren't ready yet...I wasn't at your age. You've got time to wait.


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justkillingtime
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12 Sep 2015, 11:56 am

InThisTogether makes good points, especially about age. I was 30 when I had my daughter. I believe I would not have made a very good parent in my early 20s.


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YippySkippy
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12 Sep 2015, 1:20 pm

I think I would have enjoyed my children's early years much more if I was not an at-home parent. It was incredibly stressful, lonely, and boring. Also, these days being an at-home parent is seen as a privilege, so it feels like you can't ever complain about it. You're just supposed to be wonder-filled and grateful all the time.



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12 Sep 2015, 3:07 pm

GF says she would still want to get a job. If that's what she wants I support her in this but it bugs me that nowadays it's almost considered a necessity to have two incomes to raise a family, even two professional incomes. Fifty years ago one income was seen as enough, even if it was working class (nowadays I'm not sure if one person could even support themselves with unskilled labour).

If both parents work, will the second income be cancelled out by childcare costs? I'm not sure why two incomes are needed to raise a family when it used to be only one. I'm not sure if the reason is living expenses have increased or if wages have decreased in the last 50 years (adjusted for inflation) or if it's part of some massive corporate conspiracy to double the number wage slaves, make everyone work harder and use subtle propaganda to gradually make people think that a 16 hour workday is normal (notice how on TV when a yuppie does overtime 'till past midnight he acts like it's a good thing and he acts proud of it like it's a wonderful achievement?)


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12 Sep 2015, 3:23 pm

Yes, I enjoy being a parent.

I have hugely less time and money than I would otherwise, but a much richer life. My kids inherited a lot from me. That has turned out to mean that my daughter shares my visual sense and love of drawing and design. We like Japanese style and watch anime together. We draw together. Sometimes my son joins in.

My son loves astronomy and we do things like watching the Perseids together, or share information about exoplanetary discoveries and the latest data from New Horizons. We also play certain digtal and tabletop RPGs together.

I make them hike with me and while neither currently shares my enjoyment of the outdoors, my daughter described our walk to a waterfall in July as one of the highlights of her summer. My son has been more interested in learning how to start a fire and tie knots. I am hoping that our work on basic utility knots will help him develop better coordination and maybe tie his shoes.

They are two of my favorite people in the world. I am usually not just superficially happy but deeply content after I spend time with them. I wouldn't trade that for all the time and money in the world.

But if you can't imagine enjoying that kind of intimacy or shared experience, then it probably isn't for you.