Babbling or verbal stims - do they eventually lead to speech

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I would like to know the difference between babbling and verbal stimming. My 3 yr old, who has no functional language, babbles non-stop. He makes sounds comprising the consonants ba, ka, da, ma and va. His vowel babbling includes aah, ee, and ya. I have never heard any other vowels or consonants, except that he used to say "tee" and "ta" and "tha" non stop over the summer, but has since lost the T-based sounds.

Is there a way to tell if he is babbling or simply verbally stimming ? Does the difference really matter ? He does not need an audience when he is making these sounds and produces them almost involuntarily. Even if this is a verbal stim, as opposed to babbling, is there still a small chance that SOME language may eventually develop ?

BTW, Hubby & I are not holding our breaths over this. We just got off the emotional roller coaster of will he - wont he where his speech was concerned, and we are going to continue with signing and getting started with PECS. BUT, it would be nice to know what the literature says on verbal stimming. Could it promise some language (however little) some day in the future, just like babbling does in NT kids ?

Well, if you think of autism as a developmental delay rather than a static condition - isn't this the way babies learn to talk?

I can't answer your question other than with that guess - but I do think you can use this to your advantage: Every time your child comes close to a functional word, you can say the word it's close to and respond as if he has said it. (For instance if he says "dow," you can say "down? You want to get down?" and help him down off his chair.

Slightly OT conversation on language development: my grandfather was blind and taught at Perkins Institute in Boston, so as a young woman I developed an interest in Helen Keller (Anne Sullivan was trained at Perkins; my grandfather actually got to "see" both of them on one of their tours.) Recently, I re-read sections of The Story of My Life, and it really struck me how similar her situation was to that of nonverbal autistic kids - and how similar much of her behavior was. That famous moment where she understood the word for water just after a huge temper tantrum...it seems so familiar: http://www.afb.org/mylife/book.asp?ch=P1Ch4

If we think of our jobs as being like that of Ms. Sullivan, I think it seems less daunting.

Helen Keller and Laura Bridgman are the people who impress me the most. Helen, especially, since she learned the basic nuances of language - that everything has a name - at age 7 gives me lots of hope.

But there is also some very conflicting information out there. Some sources say that she began to talk at age 6 months, and was talking when she was struck blind & deaf at age 18 months. That she communicated through sign language since her disability etc.

But hope is the last thing to die. I may call the Perkins Institute to ask if they might have some advise on helping my child learn, even though he is neither blind nor deaf. I just need some way to reach him, to teach him that things have names !

I think there is lots and lots of hope. I do think it's true that Hellen Keller had some basic speech when she was an infant - and she also did communicate through her own created signs, but I still think that Anne Sullivan's methods for teaching her to communicate are a good model for autistic parents (if you click on the link, there is another link to Ms. Sullivan's letters that are pretty amazing. If you change the words "blind" to "autistic" she's actually right on the money with many of the parenting recommendations offered here, especially the bit about returning to the child's level of language development.)

There are many children who are nonverbal at a young age who later learn speech. In fact, my husband did not speak at all until age 3 - and then suddenly began speaking in complete sentences (nobody in those days really noticed a speech delay in a 3rd child, and he was never diagnosed with anything.) I think what Hellen Keller's story illustrates is that moment of understanding WHY speech (or signing, in her case) is important is absolutely critical, and how that understanding is the building block for all kinds of other learning.

I think it is hard to say at such a young age and since ALL kids (typical to those with language disorders to those on the spectrum) can develop so differently in various areas even if they happen to have the same diagnosis, or none at all!

I will say that while my son had some words at age 3 he did not have sentences at all and he still did alot of nonsense talk (which I think is technically called jargon...almost sounded like another language). He did this along with his regular language for like EVER! (well into age 4 and maybe a bit into age 5) I guess it is considered a normal stage of language development in babies and toddlers, but at the age he was still doing it he was clearly behind. He also used to regurgitate whole conversations he heard earlier (I think its called delayed echolalia) but he would alter the content some and he used the language in context and sometimes even laughed as if he knew he was sort of acting, so it was all sort of confusing. He has been in speech/language therapy since age 3 and it has done wonders. Now he is age 6 and does not use jargon at all and speaks in full sentences. (my son's dx is pdd-nos and adhd by the way, and there has been lots of speculation about him possibly having auditory processing disorder. He does have the type of language problems that tend to go with a spectrum disorder) He still has an uncanny memory for learning dialogue that others have used and he can act out what they do and say with the best of them. Sometimes I think the kid should grow up and be an actor.

On the other hand I have a friend who's son pointed and merely said, "Aye" all the time at age 3 and that's all he said. He has no diagnosis right now, is age 9 and can't stop talking. He did have some language and articulation delays but he did start to use words at close to age 4. Today years later, you would not necessarily know that except he does still have some speech flow issues. Yet another child started speaking around age 4 after getting speech therapy as well. He made a rapid amount of progress in a short time after making very little progress for a long time. (this child has an autism diagnosis) It was almost like a switch was flipped with him. He is still catching up to his peers but its like night and day.

So it is so hard to say. I know this is probably not the answer you wanted, just it is so hard to tell at such a young age what something is or what the implication might be for later. Just do everything you can as far as speech/language therapy. Really kids that get it really can make some nice progress and even end up speaking quite well despite what it first looked like. I know being in limbo on this is a real drag because you worry about your child, but try to stay positive. The writing is not on the wall yet! If nothing else through my experience I have learned to accept ambiguity in life to some extent which was a non negotiable for me before! Just do what you can and take it one day at a time. I know, easier said than done, but hang in there! Believe me I understand. I was always trying to figure everything out as to what this or that was or meant. I finally had to stop. Now I seek mostly to understand everything my son is dealing with at the moment, but as a parent that's just where I'm at. I didn't used to be there. God bless~

HisMom, in my experience the quickest way to get a reluctant child to start talking is to say something bad in front of him, then he will immediately repeat it when you have important guests.

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My daughter's speech pattern went like this:
--nothing but primal sounding grunts and squeals up until about 2 (no babbling or jargoning);
--echolalia (she'd repeat things you said, but never initiate);
--simple naming; lots and lots of verbal stimming ("cupa cupa cupa CAAAA cupa CAAA cupa caa" or "tica tica tica tica tica tica" were here favorites);
--followed by 2-3 word utterances (this was by about 3 years);
--followed by scripting;
--followed by sentences in a very unnatural sounding cadence and voice;
--followed by jargoning/babbling (said nonsensical things that followed normal speech patterns and inflections);
--followed by repetitive speech, especially questions (said the same novel things over and over) with over exaggerated prosody (this was about 4 years);
--followed by typical speech ( I would say her speech was mostly typical by about 5.5)
--Now at 7 I do not think her speech is an issue, although now the concreteness of her interpretations is starting to come into play because kids her age are starting to understand abstractions and she really isn't.''


I think for her, verbal stimming was a way to help figure out how her mouth worked. It took awhile for her to understand what speech was all about and then she had a lot of articulation difficulties that frustrated her. I think the stimming was really a lot of practice.

I think for her the jargoning was how she figured out prosody. I think it was too much for her to concentrate on actually speaking coherently and modulating her tone, cadence and inflection, so instead the words dropped off and she practiced tone, cadence and inflection. Once she got the hang of that, she was able to put the two together.

I think her repetitive questions were an attempt at reciprocal communication. I don't think she really understood how to have a conversation and when you think about the model they see (we ask a question and they answer) I think she was just doing the best she could to try to communicate her thoughts and so they all came out in questions.

I think for her, she had a very round about way of getting to where her peers are, but she was able to figure out how to get there, even though she didn't do it "right." It may not have been the right path for typpies, but it was the right path for her.

3 is so young. You have every reason to be hopeful. My friend's son didn't speak at all until 5 and now he is blowing his peers away at 7. Granted, that doesn't happen for everyone, but at your son's age I think the most important thing you can do is keep plugging away day by day and let him take his own course. It's definitely too early to assume that because he is not speaking now there is no hope.

I want to thank all of you for responding. It is so difficult to hear him babbling / stimming on the "consonant of the day" and not react (although I am getting much better now). I have by no means given up - I am working almost non-stop with him on his receptive language and wait. This is not going to clear up overnight and I must be patient... As FLMom said, ambiguity is now a big part of my life and the uncertainty over my child's future is killing, to say the least.

I contacted the Perkins Institute today and they told me that they do not have any manuals or records of any of the teaching methods of Dr. Howe or Anne Sullivan. HOWEVER, in the link posted by momsparky above, I found this and it warmed my heart (part of a letter that Anne Sullivan wrote, dated April 10, 1887): :

I have decided not to try to have regular lessons for the present. I am going to treat Helen exactly like a two-year-old child. It occurred to me the other day that it is absurd to require a child to come to a certain place at a certain time and recite certain lessons, when he has not yet acquired a working vocabulary. I sent Helen away and sat down to think. I asked myself, "How does a normal child learn language?" The answer was simple, "By imitation." The child comes into the world with the ability to learn, and he learns of himself, provided he is supplied with sufficient outward stimulus. He sees people do things, and he tries to do them. He hears others speak, and he tried to speak. But long before he utters his first word, he understands what is said to him. I have been observing Helen's little cousin lately. She is about fifteen months old, and already understands a great deal. In response to questions she points out prettily her nose, mouth, eye, chin, cheek, ear. If I say, "Where is baby's other ear?" she points it out correctly. If I hand her a flower, and say, "Give it to mamma," she takes it to her mother. If I say, "Where is the little rogue?" she hides behind her mother's chair, or covers her face with her hands and peeps out at me with an expression of genuine roguishness. She obeys many commands like these: "Come," "Kiss," "Go to papa," "Shut the door," "Give me the biscuit." But I have not heard her try to say any of these words, although they have been repeated hundreds of times in her hearing, and it is perfectly evident that she understands them. These observations have given me a clue to the method to be followed in teaching Helen language. I shall talk into her hand as we talk into the baby's ears. I shall assume that she has the normal child's capacity of assimilation and imitation. I shall use complete sentences in talking to her, and fill out the meaning with gestures and her descriptive signs when necessity requires it; but I shall not try to keep her mind fixed on any one thing. I shall do all I can to interest and stimulate it, and wait for results.

I went down on my knees and thanked The Lord (and momsparky) for this letter here !

As for you, Frances, LOL ! !

(((((Hugs))))) HisMom!

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This really does sound like normal speech development, just a little later than average. I really hope so. I've met Mums with ASD kids who were non-verbal for a while and then developed good speech. Just keep at it and I'm sure you'll see progress. I'm afraid I don't have any experience of this, as my daughter was one of those spooky young speakers, without echolalia. However, your son's babbling sounds like how she started off too - 'Bee Ba Bye' at about 5 months eventually became 'Three Blind Mice' at around 9 months. BTW My friend has 2 NT boys who never uttered a word until they were 3yrs and they have excellent speech now (way better than their peers).

Do you mean speech or communicative language? My son (now 4 and a half) has always been able to speak, he has plenty of words, but he does not use them to communicate at all.

Hi everyone I know this is an old post but interested in how your children are doing. My son is nearly 4 babbles all day but still non verbal.

Rather than just ignoring it or trying to make him stop, try responding to him. If it's something that could be meaningful communication, assume it is communication and respond (eg if he says "ma", act like he said "mama"). If it's complete gibberish, try just echoing what he said to make it into a game. This is how most kids learn to talk, from having parents respond to their sounds as meaningful.