advice wanted for violent behaviour

Post Reply New Topic

Hi any tips on the best way to cope with my 10 year old daughter beating me up in the street. obviously she is too big to carry home and is not safe to leave her -but I dont know what to do when she starts thumping me and it hurts alot. She normaly does this if something annoys her and you cant always head off all conflict - so any ideas guys

it's true you cannot head off every conflict. aggressive behavior will diminish once you figure out what her specific triggers are, and then work out ways to either avoid those triggers or slowly desensitize your children to those triggers..........for instance: if her trigger is going to the bathroom in a public restroom, you can avoid using one until you get home. and also make certain to go to the bathroom before you leave the house. however, if you're far away from home, you won't necessarily have any choice but to use the public restroom. if this is the case, then you need to let her know that before you even leave. you need to find out what it is that bothers her about the specific situation. and then you need to talk to her about what you will specifically do to make her more comfortable.

Sorry to hear that you got treated like this. It is not easy . . . and scary as well.

I know that some of it relates to the triggers, but I personally think that AS kids need to learn self-control, just like any other kid needs to. Sure, they are going to find it harder, but I reckon half the stuff my AS boy flips out about is stuff he needs to learn to control, and hopefully will do as he grows up.

In the sort of situation you refer to, sometimes I will try distraction to shake him out of it. If that doesn't work there's the choices/consequences thing ie. you choose to do this and this will happen, if you choose this then this will happen . . . and follow through with it. I have also talked to my son about not being able to behave violently in terms of that eventually leading to trouble with the police, so that he works out it is serious. Hope you find something that works.

Hi lotusblossom - sorry to hear what happened. I agree with Ster on the importance of desensitizing children to triggers. Preparing children for outings too, as part of a regular daily or weekly schedule to reduce anxiety is also important, but sometimes even the best laid plans can go awry.

Annie2 wrote "but I personally think that AS kids need to learn self control, just like an other kid needs to."

Totally agree. Learning and mastering self control over time is terribly important. Communication in this instance also perhaps needs to be worked upon, so as the aggressive, dangerous communication behaviour is replaced with more acceptable communication. When out in public, if a child becomes aggressive or is 'flopping and dropping'(another common occurrence), unless they are ill or in pain, they are having a simple tantrum to gain and keep control. It's best never to actually pick children up, simply either lift them onto their feet or take their hand and help them walk on, after a brief calming time. Some parents/carers make the mistake of giving piggy backs to children, including teens who display aggressive or flopping/dropping behaviour in order to move them. Of course, children think this is great, so they act out/flop more and more until parents/carers realise the mistake they've made.

The aim is to remain as calm as possible(protecting yourself as best you can), but very important that you show her that you are remaining controlled in your own behaviour. You can't reason or negotiate with a child who is being unreasonable, and is out of control. Say nothing about the behaviour, but praise the slightest co-operation. Any reference to her behaviour, will only serve to reinforce it. The aim is to get her from point A to point B as swiftly and calmly as possible, and have her back in a more secure, calm environment, that feels 'safe' to her, preferably engaged in activity of some form(not floating aimlessly as it were)asap. It's not always easy, but it's helpful if in future, you can be aware of any cues that your daughter is just beginning to become distressed, catching it before she starts acting out. The more experience she has of the setting and route taken, the more secure and 'safe' in those settings, she's likely to be.

I am fortunate that it has been a while since my son had done something like this, but I think both Juliette and Ster make very important points. You need to keep working on identifying the triggers, and you have to handle the situation in a way that gives her as little "reward" as possible.

My procedure was always to pull my son aside into the best nearby spot available, and then basically sit with him to keep him from hurting himself or me until he could calm himself down. That has meant he has had tantrums in some very embarassing places, and disturbed many people, but it never seemed that any alternative was any more appropriate. Drag my child long distances while he is kicking and screaming? People might think I am kidnapping my child. Once you realize that you get to look bad no matter what you do, you also give yourself freedom to simply make the best decision for the child. So that has always been my approach: get my son into a space where he can let it out and calm himself down. I stay very focused on him, keeping him safe, and figuring out what he needs in the moment. Once he is calm, we try to figure out what drew him into the tantrum, and how to prevent it in the future. If he cops a selfish explanation, I gently work on getting to a more appropriate one. It is tough, though, trying to get inside someone else's head.

It was these sort of worries, and some other stresses, that I was hoping to address by getting my son into more consistent and regular counseling. I realize this isn't a "mental health issue," but I couldn't think of a better tool to help my son sort it all out. It seems to me that a friendly third party may be able to get a child to open up about things he isn't comfortable saying to his parents, and that may help him sort things out, AND identify more of the triggers. And, well, it seems like we, as parents, just can't figure it all out alone. My son currently takes part in a social skills / anger management group at the community mental health center, and he feels it is helping more often than not. He actually brought up his last public meltdown for the group to discuss; it is clear that he doesn't want these things to happen any more than we do. So, if your daughter is not in a group or individual counseling program that she feels good about, I would look for one.

I think we are entering a scary period with our soon-to-be pre-teens (my son is also 10). I have the impression from other parents that these issues will get worse when our children have hormonal changes to deal with. I think it is important to get as much sorted out NOW as possible, to keep that period from being downright dangerous. Get as much help as you can access, take this issue head-on.

Thanks for your replies
I was kinda hoping for some specific tips on how to deal with the incident rather than how to avoid them. All the literature has lots on avoiding triggers but sometimes a bit of grit goes in a childs eye or someone looks at them wrong or any number of uncontrolable things trigger a rage. What I want to know is how to handle the situation. For example if it was my husband beating me in the street- I would call the police. what do I do- I cant just let her beat me and she is too big and stong for me to restrain or carry. We see the local mental health team and they just said to write a behaviour diary and dont seem to have any "tips" -I need something concrete that I can do in the spur of the moment.

Give me a couple of days to sift through my son's therapy notes.

Anger was his major problem which has improved heaps.

I'm too busy today, but I'll get on it.

Helen

if she's in imminent danger, then you must do whatever you can to get her into a safer location...........if this means getting someone to help you remove her from the street, then so be it. her safety is what's of utmost importance.

if she's pitching a fit and not in danger ( ie; in the middle of your living room), then you can choose to walk away from her until she's calm. try to work things out with her when she's in a more sane frame of mind.

That is rather the difficult thing, Lotus: I am not sure there is much you can do, other than move her best you can to a safer location when necessary. Which is why the prevention becomes so very important. I know that isn't a perfect solution, and it really worries me for the future when my son gets larger and stronger, but I haven't seen much that strikes me as useful as far as immediate constraint goes.

What I was taught when my son was young (before he had an Aspie dx, btw) was to hold him from behind, crossing his arms like a straight jacket, and then sitting down with him in my lap. I can still do that now that he is 10, but it is really difficult. Overall, I find it better to allow him to deal with it in his own way in the safest place I can provide him.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 08 Mar 2008, 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Lotus,

I just came across a thread at another forum that may be of some interest to you with regards to this topic:

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthr ... ?tid=11510

you have to be very, very careful when you are using that form of restraint (arms crossed over your child).....you can do some serious inernal harm if you're not careful~ there've been cases of kids dying after being put in restraints........if you can find a PMT course, it would be very helpful. PMT stands for Physical Management Training. This teaches safe forms of restraint, and different forms of escort.Escorts come in various forms: for instance, there's "implied touch" which is when you walk close to the student with your arm behind them "implying" a gentle direct toward the location you want them to go. ...implied touch is the least invasive form of escort. one of th emost restrictive forms of escort is a 2 person escort with the student being safely lifted underneath their armpits and walked backwards to the location. this form of escort is only used in extreme cases.

Excellent feed back, ster, thanks.

It is strange how it is so easy to get and pass around bad information ... sorry, it was just something we were taught.

This link in that thread looks great Thanks!! !
http://www.mindsandhearts.net/resources.html

well if the tips dont work I wont really mind doing 20 years in solitary for murder- I might even get free study

Handling meltdowns are one of the hardest things a parents has to deal with. I say this as a parent of a 9 year old with asperger's and as a behavior therapist (background in ABA). The real key is to diffuse the situation as smoothly as possible. It's important to understand the escalation cycle. Prior to a meltdown / loss of control, giving consequences is the key to having the situation not explode. You want to come up with a strong deterrant (e.g., loss of TV, computer, etc...) You want to clearly state what the consequence with be if she continues. At this point, the child is actually able to sense a loss of control is about to occur, and this is actually scary for the child. What they are looking for is for someone else to help control the situation. In doing that, that will teach the child control. That they need to think through consequences. If the situation continues to escalate, the only thing you can do is ride it out. Once a meltdown / loss of control has started, the child has lost their ability to rationalize. That means any talking screaming or physcial tactics will not work. This being the hardest part. I have advised many parents, and have used this myself, to make cards to carry (ahead of time) that says something like, "my child has Asperger's. It is a neurological condition that predisposes my child to have difficulty with controlling behavior. Thank you for your concern." And then add a website for people to educate themselves. There's nothing worse than the onlooker that has all this advise they want to share. This at least helps the parent feel prepared for those situations. The key during the meltdown, for the child, is to try to clear any objects away they could use to hurt themselves and to move yourself to a safe distance. If needed hold your hands out in a defensive position, but do not engage with the child. Often times, parents think they're lessing the situation, but in fact they are reinforcing it. You have to have the mentality that you are willing to ride it out. Parents often become desparate in these situations, and child can sense that. If the meltdowns are reinforced, they are sure to continue. People do what works. After the meltdown, I disagree with some of the other parents. I think the child should have a consequence. Mainly because that's how life is. If a child has a meltdown in school and assults another child, they could very well get suspended. What ever consequence you initially proposed to your child (prior to the meltdown) make sure you enforce it in a controllled manner. Generally, after a meltdown, once your child begins to calm - this is where you can talk to them! This is called the therapeutic repore stage, and this is when they are scared by their own loss of control and they feel uncertain how people around them will respond. This is where you want to be loving, accepting, yet firm in your consequence.