504 vs. IEP?

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I'm not a parent, but the 15-year-old AS son of two (mostly) great parents. I recently heard them talking about getting a "504 plan" for me due to me failing my science class (mostly due to the abysmal teaching style of my teacher). However, all I hear people talk about here at WP are IEPs. I'm just wondering, what's the difference between the two?

I didn't know, either, so I found the following on the internet:

http://www.nldline.com/iep_vs_504.htm

My son has an IEP, and I guess whether or not a 504 would be adequate in your situation would depend on the details of how your issues with the teacher caused you to fail. It is possible that the 504 is easier to get in your district, or more common, and that is why your parents are talking in that direction. I went into all of this through the back door: I knew what I wanted for my son, and he was in agreement with it, and I told the school that I would do whatever I needed to do to get it. It took a few false starts, but my son is now getting from the system what he needs.

PS - I got a chuckle out of your referring to your parents as (mostly) great. I am glad that you can see your parents in a favorable light, and I also remember how when I was a teen that all their apparent faults seemed pretty glaring, so in the end (mostly) great is a solid compliment. About the best any of us could ever hope for.

IIRC ( and i may not be) 504's are a step below IEP. 504's are for accommodations that do not require specialized instruction ( IE ... time and a half on tests, tests read out to you, time warnings, prepared notes, etc). Things like Speech, consultant teaching, ABA, and resource room all require specialized instruction, so they are utilized via IEPs.

So IEP = accommodations & additional teachers. 504 = accommodations.

http://www.slc.sevier.org/iepv504.htm

Another aspect of these plans is that the school has to provide the agreed upon services/accommodations.

Parents and teachers and administrators can talk about all kinds of things, but follow-up is not always what is should be...if it happens at all.

In a nutshell, that's my understanding, too. And, those with IEPs tend to have more severe disabilities: Autism, Cerebral Palsy (sp?), Downs Syndrome. Wherease those with 504 that I know of have Asperger, PDD-NOS, ADHD. There may be Autistics with IEPs, I've just not met any so far.

IEPs are legally binding and to be taken seriously. I would assume the same for 504s.

It sure doesn't seem like the 504 is legally binding - from what I've heard of phone conversations it's a very easy and informal process that causes the administrators at school almost no trouble whatsoever.

And this would only be for my English and science classes this year, since I fail at formal writing / taking notes from class discussions in my English class. My science teacher puts all the notes on an overhead (phew), but her teaching style is very un-"user friendly". She was an extremely good environmental scientist for 25 years, but then something happened (don't know what). She stopped doing any science for 10 years and then went into teaching high school physics / chemistry. She's definitely still got the attitude of someone who works in a lab all day... >.>

Our school uses IEP's for all conditions on the spectrum, as they are all qualifying. I had not actually heard of a 504 before. I don't think our school ever uses it. I think you would need a really high funcitoning student to want only accomodations, and no other interventions. Perhaps my son will get there by High School. That would be nice

Do you have some ideas on what sorts of accomodations you would find helpful?

For my English class, probably just these:
~Written out notes. It's impossible for me to write down something that someone's said and still be able to focus on what they're saying.
~Help with the formal writing assignments / essays. I have the ability to speak an essay to you but when it comes to writing it down my mind just draws a huge blank.

For my science class:
~More willingness from my teacher to help me with concepts I don't understand. She will not explain something twice, no matter how confused the student is, and I have no time to be able to go in for help before or after school (school policies prevent students from leaving the cafeteria during lunch). The actual note-taking in this class is easier because she writes it all up on transparencies that she puts on an overhead projector, but the notes she gives us are very sketchy and incomplete - she expects us to ask questions about how to do an assignment once and then get it, but if you still don't get it then it's your own fault for being stupid.
~Maybe I could bring my laptop in to take notes...? I can type infinitely faster than I write and she moves so fast that I often don't have time to copy down all the notes, and we all know that that is never good. And besides, I write with a LOT of pressure. If I try to ease up on the pressure my handwriting turns into squiggly lines that even I can't read. I write much slower than the other students because of this, so a laptop or keyboard of some kind would be infinitely better.

Sorry to spill my issues to you! I hope it's benefiting you in some way or else I'll stop complaining about my school experience. >.> Thanks for actually taking the time to read / help though.

I think you have some very valid suggestions. You also sound a lot like my son

My son can organize an amazing report in his head, but the stress of writing it down is too much. He is allowed at this stage (he's only in 5th grade) to dictate while I type. It has helped him a lot. His last report he actually has CHOSEN to write, about 90% of it, only asking me to take down an occassional sentence for him when he feels he needs the help most.

It is good that you can copy from an overhead. For some reason, my son can't take notes from a verbal lecture OR copy from an overhead. He memorizes it all. But I don't think he'll be able to do that in High School, when the information gets so much more voluminous and complex.

I would maybe amend one item on your list. It may be difficult for the science teacher to repeat herself; that may be a problem she has, kind of her own disability, if you will. Perhaps it might be easier to request a list of supplmental reading material, to help you sort out problem areas for yourself.

PS - I am happy to read and see if I can offer anything constructive. I kind of figure it's all a circle: many teens prefer discussing things with adults who are not their parents, lol, and hopefully my son will find other adults responsive when he gets to that age.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 17 Mar 2008, 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I just wanted to say you sound like a very intelligent, thoughtful young man with a lot of valuable self-insight and I wish you the best of luck. I hope my own son is able to communicate as well as you have here when he's your age.

I don't think this is the reason, since she lectures students who were absent about class materials they missed all the time. She simply won't repeat them to people who don't understand the concept. I rarely miss an entire day of school, but 6th hour (which is when science is) was a big problem in the fall due to marching band, so I got first-hand experience of her reciting her lectures.

A print-out of the notes sounds like a great idea, I'll ask her about that. It might be hard while I have a D in her class (w00t! >.>) and without a 504 or whatever will happen between my parents and the school, but it's worth a try.

*sigh* Why does physics have to be so hard?

Ooohhhh ... physics. The only science course for which I ever received a poor grade in High School. Yep, lol, I LOVE physics - NOT. It's a shame, I should have loved it, but something about it ... ???? Wonder what it is.

Well, after we're done with our chemistry unit, we're going to go into meteorology. That shouldn't be too bad... The only bad thing about it is that we have to have a huge chemistry test beforehand. >>

I had boyfriend take Physics for fun in college. I don't know why.

504 = accomodations that the district doesn't have to spend any money on. It doesn't have the bite that IEP's have with the law, but you can complain and are backed up by the OCR and ADA.

IEP means they have to spend money for aides, resourse, programs, remediation, Speech, OT etc. They have more laws in place, and have to follow them.

Lainie