Validity of current intelligence tests for Autistic kids

Post Reply New Topic

I found this article on the validity of the current intelligence tests for Autistic children interesting.

Science Daily

thanks for posting article! i'm glad to see someone understands finally.

tyger

Very interesting in light of the fact that Z's Psychologist told us that our educational system considers autistics to be brain damaged and therefore unteachable. Thanks for posting.

Even high functioning autistic children?

Pandora, if this referres to my previous post, yes. Z's IQ is officially 126, and we were told it is probably higher because his test results were not able to be measured accurately because he scored off the charts in three areas. Z's Psychologist, they have been working together for about 2 years, told us that because certain parts of an autistics brain do not function the way NT brains do this is considered to be brain damage, therefore the powers that be in in education have determined this equates to being unable to learn, even in the face of contrary evidence evidence.

For example, Z has been dxd with Asperger's Syndrome. The part of his brain which should enable him regognize emotions in others and himself and to "properly" express emotions has been "damaged", it does not function the way the same area in a NT brain does. When part of the brain is damaged other parts may compensate, ie, if vision centers are damaged other areas such as hearing, smell and touch become more acute to make up for the loss. In Z's case his intellectual or academic skills have improved to compensate for his emotional and social "disabilities". Our esteemed Educators interpret it this way: Asperger's=Autism=Brain damage=cannot learn, do what is needed to pacify the poor unfortunate parents of this child and work on educating undamaged children.

If I seem angry, I am.

Z has a Special-ed program in place because he has also been dxd with extreme ADHD. At his last IEP meeting issues dealing with his poor social skills and emotional problems have been addressed even though his dx has not been put in his academic record. They have adressed his Asperger's but adamantly refuse to say he has Asperger's, even though they recognize his Asperger's characteristics but are dealing with them as ADHD related. Go figure!

Cor (Mom) and I are confused, do we insist his dx be put in his record or do we stay with the status quo and let them meet Z's needs in spite of their ignorance? Any suggestions?

I'm new, but after reading your post to Pandora, i wanted to say do not let their ignorance live!

Do you put Aspergers in his record?
Only if you Know they have Aspergers as a qualifying condition. Why? Because the supports often arent there for someone with Aspergers. Educators often see children with Aspergers as having only social problems...and schools have figured out that by law, there is nothing saying they have to address social issues. Yep, that's right. A big huge loophole for spectrum disorders and schools.

You seem to be worried about the education end more, and they wont necessarily address social issues in the regular classroom setting(or any other, for that matter). I honestly think you might be better off with the current dx. It got him an IEP status, right?

You need to read your state law and find ways to make it serve you, regardless. And the Federal....and the no child left behind act. It is actually beneficial to us in many ways, but hard to cull out what will serve you in the iep meeting. But, when you go in with a law to back you up, they will usually comply.

Sorry to butt in, but want to offer support and encouragement against a system against children.

My child's school allows someone with autism to stay in special ed or resource class, based on an autism eligibility instead of an iq score....she is at 70, so i just learned that, cause i needed to know. But each school can be different(how stupid....to not make a standard), so you have to know how to work it. for your school.

good luck,
tyger

.....my daughter is 12, dx with autism at 27 months, in school since the age of 3, and i never let them stay ignorant, unless it was in the best interest of my daughter.

It is very frustrating as there are a lot of different classes even in college that I have some major problems with. They are too wordy, or there become big problems when the teacher isn't reading something word for word out of a book, leaving me to think there is something to imply and I cannot do it. I have problems in any area where it is purely memorization and not much else to work with...

So I ask the college about the learning disabilities program, to see if they can help. They respond "well, typically people with Asperger's have no problems with Math, Science or History classes, so I'd be suspect of your diagnosis to begin with. If you can provide proof, we might be able to get you some 'picture books'... but the biggest part of the problem with people with Asperger's is social skills. So there isn't much we can do anyway."

It was very frustrating to see someone actually telling me, like I'm a kid, that they might be able to get me picture books, lol. Then, they don't realize a lot of social problems for some of us is caused by lack of understanding verbally what is being said, or not being able to read between the lines... so someone teaching a class, in a lot of ways, can have the same results if what they are saying does not go along, word for word, with what is in a book on one's more difficult areas to learn.

Sorry for ranting, I just thought that it was very interesting overall.

I have a daughter with bi=polar disorder. She is almost 27, and has been trying to complete college for several years. It is incredibly difficult for her, as she often cannot attend for one reason or another, but, she makes wonderful grades if all she does is go to school.

They took her disability because she made such good grades, except when she was working. She cannot work and go to school, but there is the problem of living. So she would try and work. She has no safety net, and desperately needs one, because bi=polar disorder is lifelong, and the good times only last for awhile....stress of any kind makes her life more difficult, but her desire to be a veternarian, keeps her fighting with the system holding her down.

We have an awful lot to change. People with neurological or chemical brain problems, should be provided the concessions in school, work, and overall living to have the life they want. I'm sick of people assuming a certain population cannot learn because of their dx.

We need to change the world, but how do you do that from the wrong planet???

We could, though. I've seen lots of capable posters here. Perhaps an insurggence of emails to the white house from people with autism aspergers, would let them see how capable everyone can be?

til then we'll vent....together.

tyger

tyger and nobodyzdream, thanks to both of you for your replies. Both of you are right what we face is a lack of understanding of the needs of people on the spectrum. What bothers me is this appears to be voluntary, a kind of "I know what I think! Don't confuse me with the facts!" This attitude is what makes me angry.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not an expert on Autism/Asperger's but at least I'm willing to be taught. If I make a stupid comment, please correct me. (Be gentle, I bruize easily)

Right now we are not having Z's dx put in his records and, per your advice we are looking further into what our leagle options are. We have found "no child left behind" to be very helpful, that is how we finally got Z's IEP in the first place. Thanks again as we make progress I'll let you know

Corsarzs

I wish you much luck, it seems to be a nice little beast that stands in the way: people who want to believe exactly what they have been taught about the disorders and nothing more. It is quite a shame when one who is having difficulties with anything expresses a concern and is not listened to simply because it doesn't say it anywhere in a book. and I must say, when someone reads that something is mainly geared towards social difficulties, problems with building friendships come into their minds. The facts behind why it is so difficult does not come into play very often with the diagnosis.... or any other diagnosis for that matter. Pride also seems to be something that comes into play. When someone doesn't know much about a disorder, yet they are faced with dealing with someone with it, it is easier to push them away than to just flat out tell them "I don't know enough about your condition to make any decision." That is where they should invite you in and listen to the difficulties rather than generalizing you with the little bits of information that they do know of. Instead of asking someone to come in and explain, they'd rather think they know it all and tell you to leave. It's very sad to watch and deal with. What happened to people always saying "there is no stupid question. You should always ask questions if you don't understand something."?

I wish everyone much luck and look forward to hearing the updates Regardless, keep pushing. They have to listen at some point, even if it is just because they are tired of hearing the same thing over and over, it doesn't matter-at least they are listening. Not wanting to hear it again will almost force them to become unwillingly open-minded about it, lol. It's a start at least.

Corsarz, good luck. I will also be perusing the law...my daughter has thrown a massive kink into the plan.

She does not want to stay in her Special Ed classroom. We managed to get her to the school's open house, and we found out that she didnt want to go because she didnt understand she passed 6th grade. She wants out of her 6th grade teachers class, and wants to be in a class with up to 25 kids. I see this as an incredibly brave thing to decide, and know it is socially based. She wants to have kids that she can talk back and forth to, like she does me. She does not get that enough in that classroom.

They are not going to be happy at the new needs for the IEP. She may need a shadow...not an aide, because to me the definition of a shadow is someone who tries to appear invisible, but gives a child words in a situation when they need them. Some might call it scripting. It is in huge part one of the reasons she is able to communicate so effectively. I dont want anyone doing anything for her....i want someone interpreting life in the classroom setting for her. They will be real pleased with this request.

I have to find something in the law that will back up the importance of social skills in a place where they have learned that no where in the law does it state that a public school system is responsible for anything more than the education of a child. But, to my surprise, my school has added some sort of social skills class that every student will take, and of course, they got her in that immediately, after i spoke with the principle.

Sorry to ramble, but as long as we that understand keep dialogue going, maybe we'll come up with a solution.

you give apt descriptions of what you need....do you think i did in my post to Corsarz? I wanted you to see how brave my daughter is, too.

But i know how anxious this is going to make her. I dont give her any meds currently. And am not sure i want to.

Im trying so hard to give her what she needs, and i think you help, in sharing your thoughts with me. I will fight for her, tooth and nail, but my own social anxieties will exhaust me....but if she can do what she says she can, surely i've got the fight.

we both need lots of good luck!

i am proud of her, for trying, but fear what i will do if those kids hurt her feelings. i've asked to be allowed to speak to the student body about Autism and Aspergers, but i doubt they will let me....who the heck do i think i am????but, i have a way with kids. They should let me try, but we'll see.

thanks to both of you, and good luck to us all.......i may be the cowardly lion instead of a tyger for awhile, just looking for courage.
at least i'll be cute:0).

tyger

tyger, don't forget the Lion only thought he lacked courage, when he needed to do so he faced danger bravely. I'm sure you will do great.

As for your daughter wanting to stay with her class, isn't it evidencs that these kids desire social interaction. The problem isn't that they are asocial creatures but that they have difficulty understanding the subtle cues most Nts take for granted. It would be like expecting me to sit through a formal dinner in Japan without teaching me the customs and manners that would be expected. I know I would screw it up.

We have worked with Z on manners, facial recognitionand understanding body language. He has made progress but there are times when he just doesn't get it. He wants to and tries but sometimes just messes up.

If your daughter is to learn social skills she is going to need practical experience. Yes she will mess up, but mistakes are one path of learning. Like all of us she needs to walk it. There will be kids who will tease and bully her, unfortunate but true, but there will also be a few who will help her succeed, rare sometimes but also true.

I admire your determination to help her , and your williness to stand up to those who "think" they know better. Keep up the good work and fight the good fight. I will be checking in to see what happens.

I really appreciate all the support, ya'll!

This evening, we have prepared and organized a book bag, going over every detail, picked out clothes, straightened hair(she asked me to start doing hers recently, when i got a straightener), painted nails, shaved, with one of those new shavers with the shaving stuff on the end....well worth it for a twelve year old just starting....not one cut....and yes, she has been letting me do it this summer, but did it all on her own with this new razor....highly recommend them. We've talked about making friends, what to say, what to do, how to deep breathe when nervous, gone over telling someone she needs to go to the queit room if she feels a meltdown coming, how to say, "I dont have to eat in the lunchroom", and "I need to go to the nurse to call my mom".

She is ready....i am too....she wants me to stay with her all day....i was surprised, but, she thinks i'm cool lately, lol. She relates to me, is all. I should have painted, coifed, shaved myself!lol

She thought the bookbag i found was the coolest....i didnt let her go shopping this weekend, only because it is stressful.

I know she can do it....but will they allow her.

thanks again,
tyger

ill rea this later

Not only do these tests rely on language, they rely on a child having the ability to cooperate with an unfamiliar adult in an unfamiliar place with an unfamiliar and possibly boring task. Kayli scored in the average range in the tests she would do at all--it took some creative effort on the part of the tester to get that far.