I wish I could be "D" for a day. Introspectives pl

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Your son sounds a lot like me as a child.

To me it is strange NOT to be able to read, add up & tell the time at 3!

When I started school at 5, I assumed all the other kids' parents must have been so lazy - I mean, fancy sending your kid to school not even being able to read properly - the shame!! !!

The fact that I could not tie shoelaces, dress myself or go to the toilet by myself (I had a phobia about not being able to do/undo the bolts on the doors!) was irrelevant....

Actually that is expected now - in addition to already understanding addition and subtraction (even though its well known children can't grasp the concept of subtraction until they are around 7 years old. Alot of schools have remedial reading classes for kindergartners who can't read at the beginning of the year.

You can thank George Bush for why we are pressuing kids to so much they are known to be incapable of from a scientific and psychological view point, thereby making them view learning as a monstrous process that can't possibly be any fun

Huh??? That's bizarre! I suppose they must be talking about NT kids, because it certainly wasn't true for me. For me reading & maths were both completely intuitive, just as the social stuff must be for NT's.

In fact I find the whole "reading age" concept incomprehensible as well - the idea that "an 8-year-old can read this, an 11-year-old can read that, a 14-year-old can read the other!" It makes no sense to me at all. I mean, surely you either "can" read or "can't"?

I remember as a 5-year-old asking "What does that word say?" because I hated the fact that I was confronted with a word I couldn't read. (The word was "partition"). The teacher told me how to pronounce it, explained what it meant, & from that moment on it became part of my vocabulary. Thus even at 5 I could probably have increased my reading age by a couple of years in a couple of hours, it was that simple for me.



I can't, because I don't live in the US... but that statement is clearly nonsense. How can all kids possibly be capable/incapable of the same things at the same age?

The truth is that some kids are ready at 3 or 4, and others will not be ready until well into their teens. IMO what is wrong is treating them all the same. It is as wrong to hold a bright child back as it would be to pressure a slower developer into learning when they are not ready. My original post was written from the point of view of an aspie 5-year-old - it is not what I think now!

Its not that they can't read it- its that they can't comprehend it. I don't know many 8 year olds who would understand a story that uses sentences such as "Joe blandished Sally after she elucidated about her sudden disappearance. Noticing that Joe's impetous behavior involved several platitudes, Sally chose to be obsequious while she reflected on possible reasons for Joe's motives."

I once had a group of 4th graders who were unable to figure out why Ramona thought she was getting a present because the teacher said "Wait here for the present." I tried to put them in a similar situation as Ramona to help them understand by asking them to elucidate. Unfortunately a student teacher walked in before I had asked them all to elucidate and the kids said "What does hallucinate mean? Ms. Trees just asked us to hallucinate."



When there is a statistically significant majority (typically with in 2 standard deviations of the norm), it is acceptable to speak in such a way that indicates all children do or do not this The other ones are outliers and pretty much everyone knows that there are going to be some of those, regardless of what you are talking about though they deviate so far from the norm it is not necessary to bring them unless specifically discussing them.

Would you consider it wrong to say "People eat at least once every two weeks" I imagine the answer to that is no but I can point out people who that does not apply to - they are just not included in that statement as they are outliers. I noticed in your statment you didn't say "though somecan never grasp these concepts because they have significant brain damage or are in a permanent state of vegetaion" - your statement indicates everyone will eventually be ready. So you are using the exact same acceptable speech that I used when talking about kids needing to be around 7 in order to comprehend subtraction

*Don't forget its not what I think I know either - its what I know beyond any reasonable doubt because for 4 1/2 years I studied, observed, read professional papers on, listened to numerous local teachers speak on and researched in the university from my education classes to my psychology classes to my math classes (the university is known for producing some of the finest teachers in the region and I think they reinforce that by making us eat, breath, and sleep child development - I'm kind of turned off from education classes forever now. )The typical child's brain development does not allow them to comprehen subtraction before the end of their first grade year. And though second graders can memorize the multiplication tables, the typical second grader doesn't have the slightest grasp of what multiplication means. And so they will have to be retaught it in 3rd grade.

Sadly my recent graduation means I've just lost my access to the quality scientific, psychological, and socialogical journals, but if you remind me I'm sure I can access some copies of these journal articles in about a month when I am on the CMU campus

yes it is wrong to hold a bright child back. But again, in the US thanks to george bush gifted programs have had to be cut in schools so that money can be spent on getting a significant number of special education kids to the point where they can meet the same criteria is the general student can. And of course if the schools bump up the gifted kid say from 4th to 5th, that will mean that the mean of the 4th grade students scores will be lower, which will potentially put the school in danger of federal take over

*And this is not meant to be harsh. It is an explanation, pure and simple

Last edited by Triangular_Trees on 18 Jul 2008, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A cheap way to get an understanding of what I'm saying about children's grasp of concepts is to read a copy of "Fish is fish." The fish is like a child when he pictures what the frog is telling him (and an adult to if they have improperly formed notions of the way something is.)"

The fish has been taught all about what is on land by his friend the frog. He can now tell you about people, birds, and cows.

This picture shows the fish's view of what people, birds, and cows look like

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertai ... ill_1.html

To un-hijack this thread

I hope to be me again because:

1) I can memorize a text book chapter in an hour
2) I never read a book twice because I can read it over in my mind, even years later.
3) I can tell you all about the submarine the Americans used in the Revolutionary War (the turtle, David C. Bushnell) and diagram it for you but how Alexander the great is sometimes considered to have had the idea for submarines is he hid people over the sides of boats in greased leather sacks
4) I get better grades on papers I wrote 4 hours before they are due than on ones I spent weeks on - which is probably in large part due to the fact that I can spend 6 hours researching in the library and only have read one source about what I had originally came to the library to research (after all you have to read more about something that catches your eye in every article you come across, no matter how far that steers you from the original topic)
5) I'm learning dutch by participating on a dutch website - and picked up quite a bit of it without help. Sometimes I might get the words in the wrong order (red car/car red) but they can understand me when I write dutch

I wish I knew how to make the world go away the way my kids do.
I wish I could pick up an instrument and learn to play it.
I wish I could be as innocent as they are.
I wish when I was little that I did not understand when other kids were being mean.
I wish I could strip down to my undies anywhere and not be embarassed, but feel so much more comfortable.
I wish I could feel the same thing he does when my little guy runs.
I wish I had all the answers to give to my children.

Well, I could, but MANY can't!

blandished
elucidated
impetous
platitudes
obsequious

are considered "big" words. They aren't used that often. I can only remember hearing elucidated,platitudes, and obsequious a few times this month, and that was on NPR(A station known for using such words). Were did YOU learn those words? I didn't learn them in school. There are SO many other things school has to teach.

It might be nice for school to pepper their books with such words to encourage learning, but I don't know if they should actually teach them when there is SO much other stuff they fail to teach. (Of course, I am a STRONG advocate of PROGRAMMED teaching, and have been for almost 40 years!) At least a person can speak well, and elucidate, without using such words. I guess I could have done without the platitudes though. 8-(

WHOA, you are a TEACHER? So many don't even teach BASIC english.



That explains the teacher part. 8-(

BTW You expect that someone has to be at least 7 to understand the concept of subtraction, but expect the average 13 year old to understand such words?

Don't get me wrong, I think they SHOULD understand subtraction, and those words, but from an EARLIER age, and outside of school. School should ENSURE that they know math, and standard english at their level.



Most such "professionals" are NOTHING of the kind, and BLITHERING IDIOTS! The educational system IN EVERY COUNTRY is GARBAGE! They teach normal kids as if they are ret*d, and expect relatively little, ESPECIALLY when they are young. If the kid is "ret*d", s/he is lucky if they expect ANYTHING!

BTW I call them IDIOTS not only because of the above but because they have a lousy way of teaching, and claim people CAN'T do things they CAN! I say "every country", because I have met people from israel, iran, iraq, russia, france, germany, india, usa, etc...

Some are better than others, but frankly I know I could have done so much better, and just don't see anyone encouraging really advanced study, etc... If you are LUCKY, they may put you in a higher level class, etc... but each class has a given pace and given materials.

Programmed study would allow you to go PAST that. It is less work for EVERYONE, and more fun for the students. I heard high praise for IBM which used it in THEIR classes. AND, PROGRAMmed does NOT refer to anything like a "computer program". It is merely a system that you can follow.

It is a kind of self directed study/exam. A student could follow it, and it can start with the material in the class. The student can easily learn the class material, and pass the tests. ****BUT****, and here is where it gets even BETTER! The student can continue to the next classes materials! The POOR students will likely do better! The GOOD students might be able to skip the next class altogether, and keep going!

WHY haven't they moved to this!?!?!?!? It would mean fewer books, fewer teachers, less time at school, more fun, and treat the kids with RESPECT! The normal kids might end up geniuses, and some of the ret*d kids may start to seem normal!

Whoops....my thread got hi-jacked again ! !!

Who wants to un-hijack it this time

Thanks,
Laura

seems like 2ukenkerl is going off on a tangent again.....

Gee, I'm sorry...

It seems that the things I do now I take too much for granted.

I read before I was 4. I did ok with a lot of fractions early on. I just never bothered doing more than I was interested in, or felt useful. That is a shame, because I DID buy a spanish comic book. I never really tried to learn spanish. I wish I could do the tricks Triangular_Trees could.

Sometimes, I think books are a crutch. They are GREAT for holding and relating info, but some get SO use to them that they hinder exercise of memory.

I HAVE come up with some creative things. SOME I wish I patented! Some of them HAVE been patented by OTHERS recently. Oh well, I don't want to speak of those things. Who knows, I might break my pattern of procrastination, and do something with them.

Most kids wish their parents were more patient.

I haven't read ALL the books I have recently. When I was a KID I did. Then again, THEY were shorter, a bit less technical, and there were fewer. My books NOW go into economics, electronics, math, mechanics, lasers, etc...

I have been told that some of the things I have done were creative, etc...

2ukenkerl- i'm sure you have done some creative things....procrastination seems to be an issue for my aspie hubby as well...sometimes he's able to overcome it , sometimes not

I dont understand when people say theyve hyjacked a thread
Everyones point is relevant

Its for the same reason I can't write my research papers in advance - everything I research is relatated to the original topic in some way. But its completely useless when talking about my original topic

Tangential thought IS an AS symptom! Sometimes it even amazes ME how I could be asked a question or something and come up with tangents to tangents of tangents! USUALLY I have something really wortwhile to add though. Sometimes it even ends up being worthwhile!

Then again, outside of finding out how to do them or being encouraged, hearing the abilities of a stranger doesn't mean too much. No offense to those that DO have such worthwhile and replicable abilities and have spoken about them.

But YEAH, it would be neat if you could experience a bit of another persons life for a while, and they yours.

Speaking of the Yankee batting problems...