Social interaction question in 3-4 year old.

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I have a question that I would appreciate any feedback on.

Those parents who have any AS children, or anyone who knows any AS children, may you please share your experiences of their social impairment at the age of 3-4?

The reason I am asking is that my daughter has difficulties interacting socially approximately 70% of the time, the other 30% is fine. She is currently being assessed for AS, with a probable diagnosis in the next 12 months.

Is this social impairment there all of the time, with no examples of 'happy' play with other children, or did your kids interact well sometimes?

Thank you.

My lil bro is 3. He doesn't get along with really anyone his age. Yea, he does fine with my friends 6 month old, but other than that... I think the best word would be abusive. He ALWAYS hits the other kids. Nothing else. Mum got him a t-ball set for his birthday, but all she really got him was another battering device. And he never seems to understand why hitting hurts, which I know why, mum just plays clueless.

It's like he's 6 months old stuck in a three year olds body. He's smart as hell, opens every baby lock we set up within 24 hours, but never seems to understand that he's not allowed to do something.

My son was actually quite social at age 3 and 4, but not always with positive results. He had a lot more conflict with other children than was normal. It's difficult to describe and we didn't know or even suspect AS back then. Anyway, it isn't as simple as having a desire for social interaction or not. It can be much more subtle.

I think some of the factors brought to our attention later included only being willing to play by his script, and getting upset when children altered or tried to adapt the script, etc. Not being willing to play using the ideas of other children. Not being able to handle unexpected changes in play, etc. Some of that is normal in 3 or 4 year olds, which is why it can be difficult to diagnos higher spectrum kids at that age.

At 3 or 4, we just noticed that our son WANTED social interaction, but usually just one on one. He didn't do well in groups. In a group, he would go off by himself and sort of play. He had friends, but didn't know how to use THEIR ideas to play. He didn't want to control all play all the time, but he just didn't seem to know HOW to play correctly. We basically had to teach him very basic concepts of play, and even then, he wasn't all that interested in play outside of his concept of what play should be. He wasn't against other ideas at all, but he just didn't know how to do it.

Kris

My son was probably a bit similar to what you describe. He probably had the most difficulty in working out how to join groups of children playing. He would do things like barging in and "wrecking" the game, or pretending he was a dog and woofing to get attention, rather than just asking if he could play. He got his AS dx at age 6, so I guess that probably shows that it wasn't social impairment all of the time, as we would have been onto it a lot sooner, I guess.

My son (now 11) was sometimes able to play and enjoy kids -it usually worked better when it was one on one. It seemed that when he was in a large group of kids (like when he was preschool) it was just too much and he needed to "get away" and be off on his own. But then when there was song singing or something he enjoyed he would usually join in....it just always depended on the circumstances. He was never 100% social or "anti-social" either way. I don't think that's too unusual for 3-4 ear olds. They can really run hot and cold.

These experiences you have all shared are like gold to me right now. My husband and I are currently on the roller coaster ride of diagnosis, which is sometimes more difficult in girls.

My daughter does many anti-social things, such as swim away from the class to be on her own, roar in other children's faces like a tiger (this behaviour is usually reserved for first meetings), control play so that's its all on her own terms. But other times she seems to interact well, however this always involves her controlling the situation. In fact, she gets along well when the other child or children are more accepting and passive and let her use HER rules.

Thanks for sharing guys, its very helpful.

My daughter Heidi is 3.5yo now. We got her diagnosis of HFA/ Aspergers a bit over 12 months ago.

Similar to others who have posted above she does much better at one on one play.

She wants to join in but doesn't always know / understand the games the other children are playing.

Her 5yo sister is very bossy and I've noticed Heidi tends to play with other children who are also bossy and direct her play (ie tell her what to do).

In large groups she wanders off to play on her own and hide from the noise.

At home when she plays with her sister she has very few problems and the same with her 2 cousins who live close by. But then they have all grown up knowing each other from birth and have their own language.

I really do believe environment plays a big role in how Heidi reacts to / plays with other children. If we are in a large group or at a noisy / echo filled venue then her play is solitary and she tends to cling to me. In smaller groups and quieter environments things are more typical.

Our daughter's psychologist is holding out for the diagnosis on paper until she is about 4 and a half. She says that she really believes our daughter has AS, but wants to wait to be sure. After reading how soon your daughter got her diagnosis I'm not so sure about us waiting now. Maybe your daughter was that obvious? Although ours drives us crazy, and is very hard work. I would have thought she was an obvious case also!

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and welcome to WP (I can see your fairly newish, so am I!)

[quote="Mon Our daughter's psychologist is holding out for the diagnosis on paper until she is about 4 and a half. She says that she really believes our daughter has AS, but wants to wait to be sure. After reading how soon your daughter got her diagnosis I'm not so sure about us waiting now. Maybe your daughter was that obvious? Although ours drives us crazy, and is very hard work. I would have thought she was an obvious case also![/quote]

How long will you have to wait? It mightn't be a bad thing to wait as you may get a more specific diagnosis eg. HFA or Aspergers or PDD/NOS. If the psych really believes she has AS and you do too, then there's nothing to stop you treating her as such, even if you don't have a diagnosis. The diagnosis won't change your daughter at all; it's benefit is mainly so that you know what you're dealing with and can develop strategies to assist your child. If you suspect AS, you can still begin implementing the strategies. And in the meantime, instead of telling people that she has a definite diagnosis, you just tell them that the doctor suspects AS.

To give a child's perspective on this...

At that age, we see so many children running around, all happy and laughing. And each time we try to join in and fail, it hurts us a tiny bit.

Honestly, it would be smarter to have your child interact with other aspergers children more-so. As on WrongPlanet, they may only truly find acceptance with their own kind.

This may sound cruel but...how is it any different to society itself driving us away to the fringes and labelling us as ret*ds?

And keep in mind 3-4 and up could very well be considering a child's formative years so you have to ask; "Do I want my child to grow up being used to rejection from others" which will happen if around NT's or "Do I want my child to grow up as best she can?" which would probably happen around others like him and accept her.

Yes, this may sound extreme. But I favor extreme solutions.

I myself spent most of my time immersed in LEGO or books, allowing me to create myself and further enhance my joy of creating things and escaping.

Regards
GM

Good idea!

Cry the Baby to Sleep
NO MORE NO MORE
PLEASE! no more
Give me Hell
PLEASE Cant take this no more
Cant cry for some one I never new
n Who is she..
Cant take this any more
SHE DIED A CRUEL DEATH
N I dont wana cry at her funeral no more
IT'S HELL
To search all your life..
For a girl you never new because she's dead
Put her to death
TOO MUCH PAIN HERE.. HELL
Lil girl needs rest
Cant cuddle her cause it hurts to much n
she is shattered n half dead
Was once lil girl with n hope stars shine
but the Mothr Fucjkr Killed me
n I cant see this lil girl die
She;s be crying all her life
She's half dead
Better off let her rest her lil head
Cause hell is where she is..
to come back to n know..
is where she has been her whole life
DEATH DEATH DEATH 'n HUMILIation
I dont wana know her any more
She's better off Dead
Rest her lil head
RIP lil girl. No one can hurt you NO more
IN HEAVEN.. lil girl sleeps

Indeed. If you want your child to socialise with normal kids then don't tell the parents or kids about her gift. It will probably only lead to exclusion or mocking.

And thanks for that useless bit of poetry.

John Milton outclasses you though.

*Hums Tori Amos - Crucify*

Regards
GM

What who is the crucified..
DEAD

Thank you for the welcome.

Our daughter got her diagnosis as part of the Social Communication Research project at La trobe University (melbourne, Australia)*, this study is aimed at diagnosing Autism Spectrum disorder in younger children so intervention can be started sooner.

At the time of of diagnosis Heidi was basically non-verbal, she had 50 words but they were not used in way that conveyed meaning. We've since learnt this is called echolalia. Mostly Heidi communicated in growls or by screaming tantrums.

For us the biggest change came when we started speech therapy (PECS) and learnt to communicate with each other, those therapy sessions are as much about me learning as they are about her learning. It is so amazing how Heidi sees the world and I thank god that now we can share it together.

Our paediatrician kept telling us to wait until Heidi was 4-5 years old after we first voiced concerns at her delays during the 18month check up. I'm very glad we didn't listen to him and have since found a new paediatrician.

* I'm still to new to post links but if you google Olga Tennison Autism Research La trobe University you should find the link to the research study.