Son is very touchy - how to teach (? 4 people who are ASD).

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My son is in kindergarten for those who don't know. He is extremely physically touchy and it has gotten him into trouble with some other kids - not with adults. When we leave school or after school care (2 days a week), he will go up to some random older kid and hug him or her. It annoys the older child. He sometimes will go up to some of the older (horribly rude) boys and ruin their stuff. I believe he is reacting to what they say such as "He isn't gone yet, thank goodness he is leaving, go away and go home."

He tries to kiss the teacher on the lips, hugs her legs, tries to hold hands with other kids, and blows them kisses. The one time he tried to kiss her on the lips, I explained that you don't do that with people and told him you just say bye. He then stopped doing that. When he tried to blow kisses to friends or people he knows, he stopped doing that. Now he gives hugs to random people. I feel bad that I always have to explain to him the social rules. He seems to take what I say and doesn't do it again but there is always something new I have to teach him - everyday. I feel bad always having to teach him because he seems to be trying hard.

For people on the spectrum, am I doing it correctly? I don't want him to feel bad. He does listen to me and comply but there is always something and I don't want his self esteem to go down because i am explaining something practically everyday. I just feel if I don't, his self esteem will diminish in the future because kids won't play with him. He is already having social difficulties.

My son was exactly like this. I approached it basically as you have. I don't see that there is much choice, really, our kids have to learn boundaries. And while my son often expressed frustration about not being allowed to hug other kids at all odd moments, and not getting that need met, he did eventually absorb the lesson and lost the intense need.

He stills bowls me over with manic hugs when he sees me. I'm his safe place for that sort of thing. And I want him to have that. But, geez, one of these days it's going to send my to the ER, I swear. He's very sensory seeking in the way of touch (oh, yeah, I am NOT going to allow him to date, lol) and I call him my cuddle monster.

My son's new OT told me something interesting. My son has had a lot of difficulty writing and is quite flexible physically. Someone on this forum suggested that he probably has loose joints. The OT noted that sensory input needs to pass the joints to get to the brain, and loose joints can interfere with the proper transmission of that information. The result is that someone with the condition will be constantly moving, touching, seeking intense contact, etc., simply to have a sense of where they are in the physical space around them. I don't know if the hugging need is related to that, but it could be. Just something to consider.

I just teach him that there are many ways to interact. With people at school he's limited to touching arms, and high fives. With people at home it's hugs and whatnot. You're lucky...my little guy got very interested in breasts. I had to explain that they are mine, and not for him. LOL

I had to teach him that kissing on the lips is for Mummy, and not even his brother likes it. You see, what they enjoy at home, and see at home, they will try and mimic. Hence, the holding hands with other people, and the hugging. I simply had to outline what other people will accept and is acceptable, and what is okay with family/at home.

It's important to teach these basics. You're lucky your child enjoys hugs and such. Don't feel bad about correcting the behaviour, it is the only way he will learn, and the only way he will eventually fit in.

You aren't crushing him in any way, you are building a child that understands (or at least can comply with) the accepted social etiquette.

And don't worry that it's only AS children. After working with children intensely for 6 years, I can tell you that many NT children have to learn many of the same things.

Good luck,hon.

ha ha! He IS very interested in breasts. OH my! So very interested. He started groping people at age two. Now he is more subtle about it. I have to explain that they are mine and about appropriate touching but he still doesn't seem to either grasp it or care.

Very interesting about the joints. I can see the connection there.

I didn't say anything about it, but the picture of the "tada" moment where he is displaying the structure he built made me think he would act in such a way. Then again, I am not sure of how people his age really act in such ways. You DO have to break him of such behaviour. EVEN if all others accepted it, his male classmates WON'T!

I don't mean to be insulting, etc... I'm just trying to help.

I'm making an assumption based on how you phrased this, sorry if I am wrong. But:

"Don't do that," contains very little information.

Imagine I am trying to teach you to work an autoclave and all I say is, "Don't do that," when you do something wrong. You fuss with the machine, trying different things, until I don't say, "Don't do that." Now you've got step one, but the machine isn't working and you have to repeat the whole trial and error process for step two (and you're probably crippled in doing so because I never said, "Don't do that just now," so some of the things you actually need to do to get step two are things you think are not supposed to be done, so you don't even try them) and so on. It will be an age and a thousand "Don't do that"s before you learn to work the autoclave with only "Don't do that," for instruction.

Obviously you'll learn it tonnes faster if I say, "First, do X and Y. Then do Z," etc. Autoclaves are much much simpler than human social interaction, but people almost never tell you what to do, and instead you're left groping around with nothing to work with but "Don't do that," feedback.

I'm sure you're more clueful than that. But still, you may make faster progress if you have a think about it and come up with some "Do this," instructions for him. Shift your focus away from correcting mistakes and on to communicating what, exactly, the right way to do it is.

Our school has a "no touching" policy. Not even the teachers can hug the students. In Kindergarten, they were constantly telling the kids to keep their hands to their side, or sit on their hands.

You also have to tell them what to do instead. Like - if they feel like they need to squeeze or hug something, hug a pillow. Or get them to express themselves verbally - "are you really happy? tell me why."

Kissing on the lips should not be allowed at school at all!!

This whole touching thing is a bit ridiculous...unfortunately, the best thing for him is to move from the US to another country where this is not viewed as odd or sick as the schools do here...

I don't say, "Don't do that" to him and feel I very specific. What I do is use each experience as teaching moments. We go home and act out several times a few phrases he can use instead. I would give him several phrases and have him come up with a few phrases if he can. When he leaves school, he now says "See you later, alligator" to some of his friends. He is better at doing that after school but then when he went to after school care (only two days a week) he still had some difficulty. I do explain to him what not to do such as blowing kiss at friends and what you can do instead. I am sure there are times I am not specific enough, though.

Electric Kite - you write and think just like my husband. He is a computer programmer. I feel that I do a pretty good job but Nate LOVES to learn things in steps. I will have to break it down into more steps. He has developed his night time routine into levels (i.e., level one - fish oil, level two - vitamin, level three - go to the bathroom, etc).

They are aloud to hug at this school but it is mainly when they are leaving. I think it is more of a "touchy, huggy" school compared to public schools because it is Christian.

You have usually been right about my son and you are once again! You were great at helping me choose his birthday presents and have been right about other things as well. He is way beyond what other kids his age act. like. A lot of times, he acts similar to a 2 1/2 year old although his academic and cognitive skills are way above that level.

You aren't insulting at all. You are just making observations. I don't think that can be insulting. Then again, I don't get insulted easily.

My son used to be the opposite. He used to have no interest in people whatsoever. None. Just this past year and a half, he developed this social interest. Before that, he also didn't like to be cuddled or even touched. He is definitely not like that now.

During these past two weeks, I am becoming more aware of how much I do need to work with him on this type of behavior. I just need to figure out better ways to do it. I am going to search for a social skills curriculum especially for kids on the spectrum. I want to find something that really focuses on beginning social skills such as how to say bye to people appropriately, ways you can touch or not touch them, etc. He has no boundaries at all.

It seems like the school does seem to accept it right now or they don't think it's that big of deal. I don't mind the hugging but it's the amount that he wants to do with people or when he wants to do it. His teacher told me that it's cute and he will learn. If I don't help Nate to learn, I don't believe he will.

Sounds like the makings of a family project. The three of you could create program-trees of steps and if-then statements for the types of interactions he's having a hard time with. With discussions of whys and various likely possible reactions as you draw, and high hopes that the social life of Kindergarten isn't too complicated for the page. You could draw them in chalk on the driveway and make a strange hopscotch game where you act out your half of the interaction as you hop from node to node, and get to make OR choices at various points.

speculative rambling and ignorant electric kite.

Well, as the saying goes:

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he will eat for a lifetime. Now learning how to fish may be boring, and somewhat difficult at times, but it is better then starving. Likewise, helping your son out with information about what kind of interaction is appropriate with different people might take a bit of time, but its much better in the long run. As long as you do it appropriately (which you seem to be) there shouldn't really be a problem. Just keep explaining what he shouldn't do, and give acceptable alternatives. Basically the conversation should go something like this:

Most people are weird. They have these arbitrary, and confusing rules about who to kiss, hug, and touch based on things like genetic similarity, age, gender, length of relationship, etc. There really is no consistent pattern to it, but if you learn the general guidelines, it will help you interact with others more effectively. For example, you can hug X, Y, and Z in A, B, and C situations, etc. Keep in mind that by following these guidelines, you will be able to get along with others better.

Of course youll want to change the words to better fit his vocabulary and understanding, but I think you get the general idea.

Just make sure you dont do it the way my mother did. Calling him stupid (especially in front of his classmates) does motivate him to stop doing the behavior, but is also motivates him to stop interacting with other humans.

I am so sorry your mom did that to you.



You both have a wonderful idea!! I will have my husband read them as well and have him help me as he thinks like that more than I do. You are right about the arbitrary rules. I think that is what stumps him and who can blame him. It would be very confusing. Nate would love a "tree of steps", the more steps and detailed it is the better. The more general it is, the more he will just get frustrated and confused.

Well, there is a consistant pattern to it, sort of. People constantly appear to break it because many of them are effortlessly able to correctly classify the level and tone of their relationships. The rest of us stand there looking vacuous, confounded by fuzzy sets and unsure or what to do because of it. You can make decision-making logic-trees (like this one: http://nodis3.gsfc.nasa.gov/npg_img/N_P ... fig7-1.jpg or however you want to draw it, sorry I am too lazy to draw one about a social situation) that represent various rules of manners. They'll work fine until you find you're just not sure about the thing you need to know to decide which branch on the tree to take next. (When you are in Kindergarten, you can probably escape feeling bad about that and just ask mom to help you fix your tree to accomodate necessary decision-making criteria for the newly discovered sort of situation.)

There is a lot to be said for rules-guided manners; they give you a chance to get in good graces before you do the wrong thing or stall, stammer and stare as you inwardly lament the horrors of navigating relations with your fellow man. Until you meet spontaneous modern express-yourself type people who hate form may think you're snooty and stiff. It's comforting to know that they're gauche, because the helpful and amusing "Miss Manners" says so, though.

Those are wonderful. Perhaps I can use those trees to form a social story as well. I suck at drawing but my husband is great.

Thank you so much!! That is perfect

You are very welcome.

If I understand what is meant by 'social story' correctly, a well-designed decision-making logic tree about a social situation could be used to generate several different related social-stories semi-randomly. The one I posted generates several stories about equipment failure, if you are just playing with it and imagine up or randomly generate the specifics of the situation to allow you to make the yes/no decisions. Kind of like one of those old 'Choose Your Own Adventure' books, but instead of just deciding, you look at something and are instructed to do this or that according to its state, and you cannot lose if you proceed by the rules and your observations are correct.

That's what I meant about the hop-scotch game. For every 'yes or no' junction on the tree, you'd flip a coin. If you compact the tree by using more than two options, you'd roll dice. Or make it harder by having somebody act out or describe imagined details of the imagined situation, making the player choose based on this performance (alas, introducing the possibility of incorrect observation leading to wrong choices and a failure that the tree can't mark) before he hops.

I now envision this as a game you buy in a box, with several social-situation logic trees inside, printed on big sheets of tyvek with corner grommets so you can tack them down to the lawn with tent-pegs, then flip coins, roll dice or act things out and hop around. If you make trees that please Nate and are widely regarded as functional by socially adroit people, I'm sure I'd like to see them and muse further upon this possibility.