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BoringAl
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04 Jan 2009, 7:35 pm

I have a concern that has been slowly growing lately. If any other parents out there have advise or experience they would share I would really appreciate it.

I have a son who is three with moderate/severe classic autism and a 14 month old who we believe is NT.
The concern is being fair to the younger brother in discipline and rules.

Eating for instance. Due to sensory issues and pickiness ASD son often won't eat what the family eats and we often don't even try. How do I deal with this if NT son is picky?

Toys are another issue. ASD son has some toys he is attached to that no one else can touch. He has glummed on to one of younger brother's toys this way.

Has anyone else dealt with this?



garyww
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04 Jan 2009, 8:09 pm

Speaking as an AS with an NT brother, three years apart.
The sharing thing can get really really nasty over time so watch for it. I once burned my brother on his face with a car ciagarette lighter when he tried to take one of my toys on a trip one time. A few years later I hung him upside-down in the chimney of a brick BBQ when I caught him riding my bike. Fortunately the BBQ wasn't lit.
Those of us somewhere on the spectrum sometimes cannot see danger in some of our actions, either for ourselves or others so it can lead to serious consequences when no harm was actually intended.
As to the food thing I can't say as we all ate the same stuff but I had mine all in separate bowls or dishes as it was just my way of eating. Try giving everybody different colored dishes and see what happens or even eating at different times even thought it is a lot of extra work.
Your family by the way looks like a wonderful group and you should be very proud.


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BoringAl
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04 Jan 2009, 8:28 pm

Thank you, I appreciate that.
The pictures are out of date but I am proud I got any up at all.
8)

We are starting to see a little agression so that is something that we are trying to find a way to deal with. His younger brother is doing pretty well adapting, but it is something I wish he wouldn't have to.

He has already learned to just walk away and play away from his brother. Normally with something his brother is particularly protective of, and then when big brother comes running he goes back to the original toy.

I think we will try the dish thing. We have done it with sippy cups and that is working well. We each do have our assigned seats too. Pity the guest that sits in one of our chairs. :twisted:



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04 Jan 2009, 8:41 pm

John Elder Robison is the older brother of a younger NT (ish) sibling and he wrote an autobiography which is fairly well regarded, it's a pretty good read if you're interested. It's called "Look me in the eye" I think.

I'm the youngest child with 2 NT siblings so I was bullied and cheated relentlessly by them. ahhh birth order.



BoringAl
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04 Jan 2009, 8:53 pm

Postperson wrote:
John Elder Robison is the older brother of a younger NT (ish) sibling and he wrote an autobiography which is fairly well regarded, it's a pretty good read if you're interested. It's called "Look me in the eye" I think.


I was just given a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas. I will pickup that book thank you for the advise.

I have read a few books by therapists and parents but not by ASD individuals themselves. Seems a glaring ommission now that I realizea it. :roll:



DW_a_mom
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04 Jan 2009, 9:07 pm

At her current age, 8, my NT daughter is aware that some things are adapted for her brother because of his AS that will not be adapted for her. The biggest issue, for us, comes with homework, because we have permission from the school to take dictation / write for him, and she asks for the same. For the most part, she understands that there is a real difference between his ability with writing and hers, but on some days when she just isn't feeling right with the world she'll get a little combative about it. Overall, though, she's OK with it all. She loves and admires her older brother, plain and simple.

The younger sibling will see a lot with their own eyes, too. My daughter learned to tie her shoes before her brother did, even though she is 3 1/2 years younger. All these things create teaching moments.

Areas like food are a little easier in our house, because we've been able to create one-size-fits all rules there. I try to include at least one course in every meal that each child will eat even on the pickiest day. We try to keep fresh fruits and veggies on hand that can be "traded" if they don't want to eat what is served for a veggie. We will not do special orders for either child EXCEPT that either is always welcome to request a leftover from the frig instead of the meal offered.

Behavior rules can be a bit of a trade off, because being far younger the NT one gets certain developmental concessions, while the older one gets some because of the AS. When either gets slack we try to be clear about why, and how there are other areas where the sibling will get the slack instead.

Overall, there really isn't much to indicate that either child feels things aren't handled "fair," so something must be going OK. Any child will claim life isn't fair when in a bad mood, of course; it's the more pervasive sense you want to tune into.


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leechbabe
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04 Jan 2009, 9:15 pm

We have a great childrens book called Ians Walk which is about a NT sibling taking her Autistic brother for a walk to the park and the difference between their experience. Link to the book - http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE ... 0807534811

It is a great story, was recommended by my NT daughters 4yo PreSchool teacher as something to read to help her understand her sisters differences.

I also read the "When I'm Feeling" series of books by Trace Moroney to both my girls (they are part of our bed-time story rotation). It gives me an opening to talk to both my daughters about their emotions as well as teaching them methods of expressing themselves.

"When I'm Feeling Angry" has been very handy recently as I'm constantly parroting it - 'it is okay to be angry, but it is not okay to let your anger hurt others'.



BoringAl
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04 Jan 2009, 9:21 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
At her current age, 8, my NT daughter is aware that some things are adapted for her brother because of his AS that will not be adapted for her. The biggest issue, for us, comes with homework, because we have permission from the school to take dictation / write for him, and she asks for the same. For the most part, she understands that there is a real difference between his ability with writing and hers, but on some days when she just isn't feeling right with the world she'll get a little combative about it. Overall, though, she's OK with it all. She loves and admires her older brother, plain and simple.

The younger sibling will see a lot with their own eyes, too. My daughter learned to tie her shoes before her brother did, even though she is 3 1/2 years younger. All these things create teaching moments.

Areas like food are a little easier in our house, because we've been able to create one-size-fits all rules there. I try to include at least one course in every meal that each child will eat even on the pickiest day. We try to keep fresh fruits and veggies on hand that can be "traded" if they don't want to eat what is served for a veggie. We will not do special orders for either child EXCEPT that either is always welcome to request a leftover from the frig instead of the meal offered.

Behavior rules can be a bit of a trade off, because being far younger the NT one gets certain developmental concessions, while the older one gets some because of the AS. When either gets slack we try to be clear about why, and how there are other areas where the sibling will get the slack instead.

Overall, there really isn't much to indicate that either child feels things aren't handled "fair," so something must be going OK. Any child will claim life isn't fair when in a bad mood, of course; it's the more pervasive sense you want to tune into.


Thank you for the input. I am glad to hear your daughter gets it. That gives me hope for my son. I appreciate meal time advise too, that and bed time are the hard times in our household.



BoringAl
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04 Jan 2009, 9:32 pm

leechbabe wrote:
We have a great childrens book called Ians Walk which is about a NT sibling taking her Autistic brother for a walk to the park and the difference between their experience. Link to the book - http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE ... 0807534811

It is a great story, was recommended by my NT daughters 4yo PreSchool teacher as something to read to help her understand her sisters differences.

I also read the "When I'm Feeling" series of books by Trace Moroney to both my girls (they are part of our bed-time story rotation). It gives me an opening to talk to both my daughters about their emotions as well as teaching them methods of expressing themselves.

"When I'm Feeling Angry" has been very handy recently as I'm constantly parroting it - 'it is okay to be angry, but it is not okay to let your anger hurt others'.


Thank you leechbabe for the advice. I will look into the books. Ian's walk sounds particularly valuable to have for when my NT gets a little older.

I want to thank everyone for the great advice!



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04 Jan 2009, 9:35 pm

BoringAl wrote:
Postperson wrote:
John Elder Robison is the older brother of a younger NT (ish) sibling and he wrote an autobiography which is fairly well regarded, it's a pretty good read if you're interested. It's called "Look me in the eye" I think.


I was just given a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas. I will pickup that book thank you for the advise.

I have read a few books by therapists and parents but not by ASD individuals themselves. Seems a glaring ommission now that I realizea it. :roll:



I got that book for christmas this year.



leechbabe
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04 Jan 2009, 9:46 pm

It is not easy having NT and a HFA child.

In some ways we are lucky that our NT daughter is older than her HFA sister, I can explain a lot away with 'she is younger than you'. Although sometimes that doesn't work. But our NT daughter at 5yo seems to understand that her sister thinks differently and has different needs.

"Its not fair" is heard a fair bit from NT daughter along with the pounding of her feet and slamming of her bedroom door as she runs away. I try to listen to her and empathise with her feelings whilst also conveying why it is necessary to be not fair sometimes. I don't always succeed.

Somedays my head aches from constantly switching gears between them.



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05 Jan 2009, 6:32 am

now that our NT son is 14 ( and AS son is 16), things have gotten much smoother.....we have tried over the years to make things as fair as possible, and also point out that NT son has his own idiosyncracies. we have stressed that everyone is different and that everyone has something they struggle with. there's been plenty of "it's not fair" over the years.....now that son is older, he understands better. as far as food goes, i still serve an alternative meal on nights i know my son's will not eat whatever the main meal is supposed to be. son's are told that they either can eat the main meal, or the alternative. this has greatly reduced any mealtime issues. ....fights have seemed to decrease along with the increase of individual time with each child.



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05 Jan 2009, 6:20 pm

I would get a duplicate of the toy that belongs to the NT child and give it to him to replace the one that the AS son glommed onto. At 14 months, he is too young to perceive any injustice about food issues, but as he gets older, you can make it up to him by engaging him in activities that the AS son wouldn't enjoy anyhow. For example, if the AS child hates meat, you could take the NT child out for a hamburger, or for an activity that the AS child could not enjoy. Do try to find activities that they both enjoy though, so that the outings and treats aren't always split up.

If possible, it's better to get a separate room for the autistic child, because he is likely to want things a certain way, undisturbed, etc. At least, this has been my experience with mine...I have 3 on the spectrum.



garyww
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05 Jan 2009, 6:55 pm

Don't underestimat very early childhood memories and imprinting. I may be weird but I have almost perfect memory of my life day by day from a few days after birth. I suspects others do as well. Early memories can have lasting impact on later development.


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05 Jan 2009, 7:59 pm

garyww wrote:
Don't underestimat very early childhood memories and imprinting. I may be weird but I have almost perfect memory of my life day by day from a few days after birth. I suspects others do as well. Early memories can have lasting impact on later development.


My 11 year old son was sharing a memory the other night from when he was 1 year old. He didn't know it was from that long ago, he couldn't place the memory, he just knew he had it.


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leechbabe
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05 Jan 2009, 10:45 pm

chamoisee wrote:

If possible, it's better to get a separate room for the autistic child, because he is likely to want things a certain way, undisturbed, etc. At least, this has been my experience with mine...I have 3 on the spectrum.


Interesting. Some info I was reading on siblings of children with special needs recommended that the NT sibling should have their own room - a space to be themselves and escape from their siblings needs.

Personally I think it is true for both, we all need our own personal space that is just ours.

Sadly finances wont allow that in our house but I make sure the girls have spots for their own special belongings that they do not want to share. It is interesting to see how those items change and which ones stay the same.

We take NT daughter out to 'our special coffee shop' and after she has eaten her mini pancakes and drunk her milkshake we take a walk to visit all the shops she likes to see. Works for us because NT daughter loves shopping and HFA really does not.