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Hello Everyone,
I have recently joined the forum in hopes of finding support, networking and advice. My son, Cameron is 9 and in 3rd grade. We live in a very rural community in north-eastern Pennsylvania. I started noticing something was a little "off" when he was 3. I was a single parent at the time and thought most of these things had to do with the fact that I worked a lot and there was tension regarding the abscence of a second parent. Let me give you a few scenarios of the issues we had at age 3. Cameron loved canned ravioli, however, if anyone of those darned raviolis came out of that can broken, there was hell to pay! He would would have a huge meltdown! The same went for his cheeseburgers, if it wasn't perfectly centered on the bun, another meltdown would occur. It also happened with his clothing. Our socks COULD NOT go above the ankle. He was also displaying a lot of aggression towards peers and authority figures. He was thrown out of 2 day cares. They said he was too defiant and un-controllable. When we started Kindergarden it was a bit rough. He hit his teacher and the school thought the best place for him was a partial hospitalization program. All the while we were struggling at home.

As the time passes things seem to get worse. He was just recently diagnosed with AS about 4 months ago, this was after the ODD diagnosis he recieved long ago. He has wrap around and mobile therapy services currently and has had them for the last 3 years. Of course their answer, the school's and his father's answers are to punish,punish,punish!

We(my fiance and I) have tried time outs and although they are effective, only in the short term. We have tried taking all privileges, and as you can guess that doesn't work either. We are at a loss! Everyone wants to try medication therapy because clearly behavior mod has not been effective up to this point. I am extremely apprehensive about this. We tried Celexa, hoping it would aid in the anxiety( fear of everything, major meltdowns over insignificant things) but it only took a small edge off. We are in the process of finding a psychiatrist to research medication options. Unfortunately, options are limited.
Cameron is extremely smart and is capable of great things, however, his behavior in school and home prevent almost everything. He verbally abuses just about every authority figure in his life. He is also physically aggressive with the men( his father and my fiance) in his life, as well as his peers. He hasn't resorted to assaulting me yet but I can see this in my future.
There are NO resources for him around here and I fear that this is only going to get worse without the proper supports in place.
Any advice would be extremely beneficial. I have read many things regarding AS but I believe there are other issues going on as well, and if not we are just not dealing with his current problems effectively.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

You have certainly come to the right place.

We have all been in your situation in one way or another.

Welcome.

As the time passes things seem to get worse. He was just recently diagnosed with AS about 4 months ago, this was after the ODD diagnosis he received long ago. He has wrap around and mobile therapy services currently and has had them for the last 3 years. Of course their answer, the school's and his father's answers are to punish,punish,punish!

Ok. That is a red flag there. Wrap around and mobile therapy shouldn't be focusing on punishment. They should be helping him work out strategies for both You and Cameron to cope with life. Arrange a meeting with your case worker, and get them both replaced. You need support. You aren't getting the right kind.

You need to work something out with the father. If he is simply punishing for what could be called normal Aspy behavior, that is working against the best interests of the child. I would recommend supervised visitation only.

We(my fiance and I) have tried time outs and although they are effective, only in the short term. We have tried taking all privileges, and as you can guess that doesn't work either. We are at a loss!

Ok. Your head is not in the right place. Negative feedback is not working. It is time to give positive feed back a try.

Pick a behavior that you want to address. Let's say meltdowns as an example. What alternative behavior would be acceptable in the case that the stress is so bad he would meltdown?

Lay down on his bed, until he feels better?
Punch a punching bag, until he feels better?
Running around the outside of the house backwards, until he feels better?
Jumping on the trampoline, until he feels better?
Lining up the books on the bookshelf, from smallest to tallest?

You're the Mommy. What works for your kid?

Put a chart up on the fridge, with 5 areas on it.
When he gets stressed and uses the alternative behavior,
have him fill in one of the areas.

When all 5 areas are filled, there is a reward.

What is a reward?

A trip for ICE CREAM?
You read him a story?
Play catch in the back yard?
Push him on the swing?
An extra hour on the computer?

You're the Mommy. What works with your kid?


Everyone wants to try medication therapy because clearly behavior mod has not been effective up to this point. I am extremely apprehensive about this. We tried Celexa, hoping it would aid in the anxiety( fear of everything, major meltdowns over insignificant things) but it only took a small edge off. We are in the process of finding a psychiatrist to research medication options. Unfortunately, options are limited.

Medication is a factor. I understand why you are apprehensive. It is an unknown. Medication X may work well for one kid, and not another. It may work for a while, then stop working. The side effects may be more than he can tolerate. Medication is not a cure. Medication can reduces some of the symptoms he is having, making it easier for him to learn the strategies he needs to cope with life.

It may take 1-2 years to find the medication balance that works for him. You may not find it at all. But, you are his Mother. It is in his best interests to find out what can be done to help him.
Does he have allergies? It may be that it would be a good idea to get him tested to find out
what he is allergic to, and try to mitigate that a bit.

You are also lucky to be in Pa. Medical Assistance (link) may pick up all or part of medical costs.


Cameron is extremely smart and is capable of great things, however, his behavior in school and home prevent almost everything. He verbally abuses just about every authority figure in his life. He is also physically aggressive with the men( his father and my fiance) in his life, as well as his peers. He hasn't resorted to assaulting me yet but I can see this in my future.
There are NO resources for him around here and I fear that this is only going to get worse without the proper supports in place.

If he is and Aspie, and I don't recall if he has actually been diagnosed, then he is likely to have strong interests in one or more topics. These interests are your allies. Understanding your son, and supporting his interests will help you and he connect better. It may help to relieve some of the stress that you are feeling.

And lastly... Is that a word? Take a good hard look in the mirror. It is very easy to slide into depression. A depressed brain may not be able to recognize the fact. Talk to family and friends to see if they are concerned about behavior changes. Do they see or feel that there is something odd going in? If so, talk to your doctor. It is hard enough being a Mommy. Treating a child, sick or not, is harder when you yourself are sick.

It is not an accident that the flight stewards on a plane, tell you to put your own mask on first,
if there is a depressurization accident.

Once again. Welcome to the wrong planet.

Hello and welcome. I agree with Evil Teach on the positive discipline, and I also have a 9 yr. old Cameron and live in PA. My son is on a small dose of Prozac for anxiety. It was necessary, as his meltdowns were becoming unmanageable. Of course, he was misdiagnosed as ADHD then also...

Nine years old may be one of the worst ages for AS kids. The pressure at school has increased, their peers are now playing social power games that they cannot begin to understand, and they aren't emotionally capable of the types of behaviors that are expected from them.

It's time to flip everyone's thinking.

Your son acts out because he is confused and stressed. He does not WANT to be a behavior problem, most likely. But what other outlets does he have? He hasn't the words, and when he tries people probably tell him he's being ridiculous. AS kids think really, really differently. When they share what they really are thinking, the NT (nuerotypical adults) around them tend to respond by telling them they've got it all wrong.

Every situation of conflict needs to be broken down step by step. Ask him how he saw it, explain how you saw it. No doubt he'll resist your explanation, but you have to keep talking until he at least accepts that this is the way those around him see it, even if he continues to disagree. It can take a half hour of talking to figure out a 1 minute situation, but he NEEDS this information, and he needs the adults around him to take the time and be patient.

AS kids respond to logic much better than punishment. Once you know they have the logic, you can use consequences for reinforcement, but you need to be sure they have absorbed the logic first. Without that, you're just treating them like stupid pets. Which they are not, they know they are not, and the anger and resistance builds. Do not assume they really understand something they say they don't; odds are, they actually do not "get" it, as much as all the adults figure that they surely do. They think really, really differently, and can have trouble wrapping their minds around the oddest things.

Look for his triggers. Most meltdowns and aggression follow some sort of stress. When you identify the stress, it can be mitigated. When the stress is mitigated, the aggresion and meltdowns decrease. But, again, you will need to talk with him as part of this process. By now, if he knows what causes his stress, he is very reluctant to share it. Work with him on that. Let him know you will be his partner in figuring this out, and that you will take everything he says very, very seriously. My son was afraid of automatic flush toilets at this age. VERY afraid. Would I in a million years have guessed that one? No. Was my first reaction to tell him he was just being silly? Of course, but that would have solved absolutely nothing, and pushed him further inside himself. His life was full of little things like that which caused him HUGE stress and made him unable to cope. We had to work together on mitigating them, keeping him free from them for a while, and gradually he taught himself to deal with them.

Give him the freedom to stim. Most AS kids NEED, and I mean NEED several forms of repetitive movement in order to think and in order to destress. I can't begin to tell you how much difference we saw when we stopped trying to reign those in, and let him be with it. In class, the child may need to chew, or squirm in his seat, or tip over, and so on. Give him straws to chew on, put him on the end of the row of desks, and let him move. If they are not doing this, all his mental focus is going into trying to control his body, and nothing is left over for dealing with any other sort of stress or learning. At home, he may need to bounce, or pace, or swing. My son is a pacer, and this is not innocuous - he climbs and bumps furniture (ultimately pretty much destroying what we have), makes loud noises, and so on. But allowing him to do this has given him the ability to control his internal stress, and I haven't seen a major meltdown in a long, long time. Between a choice of nice furniture and a child who can control his meltdowns, I've picked the happy child.

My son's toddler and preschool years were marked by many of the same things yours was. He sent potential caregivers home in tears, he was kicked out of group daycare, and the preschool only kept him on the condition that we cut his hours far, far down and engage in family couneling. The difference between your path and ours, however, started at that family counseling. The therapist told us after a year that she was convinced the problem was at the school, not in our child, and not in us. She missed the AS, but she did see that my son was reacting to stress, and not just out of control or anything ese. She also taught us a technique that worked for us for a while, where I would hold my son on my lap, facing outward, and pin his arms while he fought out his anger. I would say, calmly, that I was going to hold him and keep him from hurting himself or others until he had gained control over himself. It would always make his meltdown worse at first, but that also help accelerate the process until he had it all out of him and we could talk about it.

In elementary school we started the process towards diagnosis. The teachers knew something was off, and the road was long, but it was the school principal who first said she had a guess as to what was going on, and that was AS. I was totally caught off guard with that, but I researched it, and gradually came to realize she was right. Even though it took until 2nd grade to have a diagnosis, just by having staff who knew "something" might be going on with my son, there was this atmosphere of trying to figure him out, and trying to figure out what he responded to, instead of an assumption he was a behavior problem. Still, until we had it completely figured out, he remained confused and was starting to retreat defensively into himself. I remember he was so relieved when we could finally tell him it was AS. Everything changed for us with that.

I wonder if the aggression with the men in his life comes from the fact that he sees aggression between men and boys all the time. In so many families, little punches are the way the males relate. Wrestling is often encouraged as fun. The problem I picked up on early with my son, however, is that he can't see where the lines are. He can't differentiate between "bonding" aggression and negative aggression. It's all a blur to him. I've taught him zero tolerance, I don't allow any form of punching or wrestling. He knows other kids do it, and he knows WHY I have never allowed him to do it. Of course, in meltdowns he has no control over his aggression, and he might hurt anyone or anything in his path, which has always included me. But if you were seeing pure meltdown aggression, you wouldn't be seeing a difference in how he treats people of different genders. I think he knows what he is doing, to an extent, and has somehow absorbed that women don't do this but men do. Because he can't distinguish between the kinds of aggression he has seen, he doesn't "get" why people are angry at him. He's totally confused on this one, which probably makes him act out more. Sit down with him and break it down, and start a zero tolerance policy. Make sure his dad isn't sending mixed signals, either, and get ALL the men in his life to refrain from any types of chummy stuff. They may be doing that already, and all the confusion may be from observation, but I think it's important that he at least have that foundation.

OK, end of the book of suggestions. Now I'll share how much hope there is. My son has never, NEVER gone on medication. He HAS learned to see the signs of meltdowns coming on, and has learned to mitigate the stress. We all know to respect it fully when he says he is nearing meltdown and needs to do A or B or C. He belongs to Boy Scouts and goes on weeklong overnight outings without either parent and with no problems at all. He is on the honor roll at school. I know there could be another rough period coming on soon, as the hormones of puberty kick in, but we've had a pretty good time of it for about two years now. He's in 6th grade, and school has been difficult this year, but he has techniques for dealing with all that and he uses them. I know we are lucky in that he doesn't seem to have any depression or other mental health issues co-morbid to the AS, but I also think it has helped immensely to have his condition properly identified and to have so many people around him who "get" him. Your child may have other things going on, or it may all be reactive to never having had anyone around him understand his AS ways. That is yet to be sorted out, and we can still hope it proves to have been the later, for then your road will eventually be much easier.

I wish you and your wonderful son the best.

That sounds a lot like how I acted when I was a kid. For me, it was because I was frustrated, especially with school, and I didn't understand the reason for a lot of things, which made me more frustrated, because the things I didn't understand seemed completely unnecessary. (Like homework, and bed time, and sitting still...) I didn't know why everyone was forcing me to do all of these seemingly useless things.

What helped me the most was when I got sent to a special school where we were allowed a lot of leeway and everyone understood that everyone there was a little different. I got to make friends and relax, which was way more effective than any medicine or discipline.

Well anyway, that's my own personal experience, for what it's worth.

Well I thank everyone for their advice.

What helped me the most was when I got sent to a special school where we were allowed a lot of leeway and everyone understood that everyone there was a little different. I got to make friends and relax, which was way more effective than any medicine or discipline.

[b] He is currently on a waiting list for an emotional support classroom about a 1/2 hour away from us in a different school district. Currently, his school has expressed that they can not provide him with the education he needs. I would love to pull him out and homeschool however, my fiance and I both have full time jobs and I don't think he would get the socialization that he so desperately needs.

AS kids respond to logic much better than punishment

We have sat him down thousands of times to explain things to him. He usually tunes us out because he has heard it so many times. I usually ask him if he knows what he should have done rather than what he did do, and he always responds with the correct answer. It's almost as if he knows but can't put it into place.

I've taught him zero tolerance, I don't allow any form of punching or wrestling

My fiance has tried this with him but he almost views it as punishment because he LOVES, LOVES, LOVES to wrestle around. He wants to join school sports but we have tried little league before and he spent more time on the bench than actually playing. Has anyone had experience with this. I'm very torn on whether he can handle sports or not. He has talked about wrestling a lot.

I agree with Evil Teach on the positive discipline, and I also have a 9 yr. old Cameron and live in PA.

What part of PA?

Take a good hard look in the mirror. It is very easy to slide into depression. A depressed brain may not be able to recognize the fact.

I realize that I can't help him if I am in distress as well. My fiance and I take turns with him and it helps a lot.

Ok. Your head is not in the right place. Negative feedback is not working. It is time to give positive feed back a try.

We try to give positive feedback however, we struggle with the fact that he still needs to be accountable for his behavior. We have actually learned to ignore the less significant things like name calling. He still needs to know that what he is doing is not acceptable. For instance, in school, he will spend the entire day verbally abusing his teacher and sending her over the edge and the school gives him a variety of punishments for this. In-school suspension, loss of recess time, lonely lunch and none of these things work. It does not deter the behavior from happening the very next day. At home, (on certain days, mind you)if he is asked to do anything, homework, clean his room, etc....it results in a meltdown.

We have come to the conclusion that this is not going to be an easy road to go down but we want to do what is best for him and try to minimize his stress level.

PM for you.

Homeschooling & socialization

I want to address one specific thing about homeschooling as an option. While there are many good reasons not to choose homeschooling, and having a full time job is certainly one of them, I want to be clear that the idea that our kids need the "socialization" of school is most definitely not. We've discussed this at length on this forum and the simple reality is that our kids do not learn social skills or advance socically by having exposure to lots of other children. It is much more of a stress relationship than an opportunity. If that is a large factor in someone's not choosing homeschool, I will strongly disagree. It should not be a factor at all.

Physical boundaries & wrestling

If he loves to wrestle, perhaps you can try conditioning it upon his learning proper boundaries for physical contact. If he demonstrates that he knows and IS ABLE TO FOLLOW the boundaries, he will be allowed to wrestle as play. If he does not, he will not.

Participation in sports

My son did 5 years of soccer and had a wonderful time. He was not a talented player, and a couple of seasons didn't go as well as the others, but it mostly worked out well. We always made sure he was on a team with a coach that "knew" him, and knew his quirks, AND was strongly in the "all kids play equally" camp. We were very fortunate, overall, to have volunteer parents who made sure my son had a great experience. And he did. He loves soccer and always will, and played his last season on a high note. He's reached an age where it has gotten too competitive and everyone recognizes that it's time to hang up the cleats (including him), but I am glad he had the experience.

We also had an amazing softball coach the one season he played that. But, alas, it was pretty obvious to him that he wasn't any good at it at all, despite all the great comments from his coach, so he gave that up. Which was fine; it should be about what the child wants, when it comes to sports.

It's all about the coach, really.

With the right coach, your child can have a great experience. Without that, it will be a disappointment.

So, since this is something your son really wants to do, I would sit down and talk it out with the potential coach. See if this is something you feel can be worked out. Find another league or organization if the first one won't work. Look around.

A few AS kids thrive in sports. Most hate it, but a rare few find their passion. And NOTHING will help your son more than finding his passion, so if he is driving for this, find a way to make it happen.

Some good sports for AS kids without any particular talent seem to be soccer, running, and martial arts. A few AS kids turn out to be talented basketball players. I haven't heard from anyone about experiences with wrestling, so I have no idea how that is likely to play out. Still, if you have a good coach, it should be fine.

Often, the perception of Autism is of a behavioral condition. And unfortunately, because no clear medical diagnosis exists, we are left to diagnose the condition via observable behaviors. But be certain, the condition and therefore behavioral manifestations are due to a NEUROLOGICAL difference in the brain. This means that your son's brain perceives and processes incoming information in a completely different way than your brain, or your husband's brain. The very first thing you must do is identify the triggers in the environment. Try to understand how these experiences are for your son. Try to modify the environment when possible and then teach coping skills. For example, are you using visual cues, social stories, cognitive behavioral therapy geared for Autism through use of formulas, steps, and visual supports? Are you teaching him what to DO in stressful situations rather than focusing on what NOT to do? Don't hit me when you're angry is a typical response. Well, then, what is the child supposed to do? For a child with Autism, the alternative behavior must be OVERTLY taught.

From ,a behavior modification standpoint, research consistently shows that positive punishment (doing something to the person) produces the least long-term changes, while a combination of intermittent positive reinforcement and negative punishment (taking something away that they already have with the possibility of earning it back) produce long term positive changes.