Is The Wii U Overhated/Underrated?

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Have to agree with Earthbound here. For every Steam game I've played for longer than 10 hours, there are at least three games I've hardly touched, even though some of them got raving reviews (Gone Home, FEZ, Thirty Flights of Loving).

Back in the days when I had a SNES, that would NEVER happen. Production values were much higher back then.

On the other hand, I also agree it's ridiculous you have to pay a monthly fee for multiplayer gaming. I can't believe people stick up for that! These companies are more and more insistent on screwing gamers out of more money---DLCs, multiplayer, special editions...

They gave me a digital copy of Wind Waker for free when I bought Mario Kart 8. But yeah, I think otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.



I thought Gone Home was awesome, but I've always been super into those kinds of games...it does have a lot of bad reviews, though. Granted, most of them are from idiots who claim that it's a "terrible game" because you can beat it in a couple of minutes if you've already beaten it before and know exactly what to do

But either way, I can see how it wouldn't be a lot of peoples' cup of tea.

I agree with some of what you said Misery. My previous post was more in reference to a huge majority of Steam users. The people that impulse buy a TON, the types that buy every Humble Bundle because its a few bucks. Then they are sitting on 100s of games, many unplayed. To each their own- the rush of the sale is a thing for many shoppers. Some people get excited for clothing, or jewelry, while others get it for gaming. I've read several posts (including some here on Wrong Planet) about how people spend money to get the happiness to fill a void. (Note- I know this isnt all gamers, but unfortunately its a ton of them).

As for pricing- I try my best not to judge a game based on price (with the big exception below). I generally buy indy games at full price to support the developer/developers. I don't buy many AAA games at full price anymore because most are broken messes at launch. I bought Fallout 4 at launch- didnt like it as much as 3 and New Vegas. IMO they dumbed down Fallout to appeal to newer gamers. They modeled gameplay after Destiny (which didn't look fun to me), removed karma, dumbed down speech options and so on. It feels more like a random shooter rather than a shooter/RPG like how the previous Fallouts were. Also it feels like the whole base building nonsense is a test to see if people want a multiplayer Fallout. I say MEH to this. Fallout has been a great single player series, it doesn't need to be a shallow repetitive multiplayer game (like most other shooters are).

Last but not least for price (for now that is..). It's unfortunate that so many games are just flooded with DLC, season passes, in-app purchases, etc. AAA game makers are guilty of this a lot, but indies are doing it more and more. When a game costs around $90-100 for everything (DLC many times continues the story, increases level cap, etc), it better be great. But whats the point of buying a season pass when in a year (or a little more).. a cheaper version comes? Game of the year/ultimate/legendary/complete editions are cheaper. The downside is that you have to wait a while to play that game. I personally don't see this as a problem much, since I'm usually patient. Plus I don't do multiplayer gaming a lot.. so I don't have to worry about empty servers. In the end- its all about the money. Game makers do DLC after DLC and gamers buy it up almost always. One day I hope we as gamers take a stand and say enough is enough. Making a game isnt cheap, but that doesn't mean you need to overprice your product... period.

I'm actually a big fan of point-and-click adventures so I expected to be able to like this game. But it's just so... slow. It seems there's this trend where games have to be more like "art" or "self-expression" instead of plain good fun like in the olden days. I think I'm gonna dust off my SNES and see if I can plug it into my TV (probably not...)

SNES can plug into most TVs if I remember right. Just need the yellow, red, white connector in the back. I like point and click games too! My favorite of all time is probably Maniac Mansion. I recently bought Day of the Tentacle remaster on PS4 (first time playing.. its really fun so far!).

Maniac Mansion! I remember I almost had a panic attack when I was captured by that creepy doctor! I've never played DotT either but I'm gonna give it a go soon. Is it as good as MM?

Wii U doesn't deserve the hate it gets and does deserve to sell a bit better than it is.
The real issue is the way Nintendo handled the message and the price.

Not many folks are willing to pay more than $200 for a Nintendo system of any kind.

Though Wii U has a more diverse library of games that actually sell than PS4 and Xbox One combined (just look at the NPD, Eurotracker and M-create charts.)

Wii U has something for everyone, while PS4 and Xbox One are heavily focused on the "hardcore" gamer who wants shooters, sports and AAA blockbuster games (everything else bombs heavily on PS4 and Xbox One).


EA internally abandoned Wii U before it launched, while releasing the games they were contractually obligated to do.
All of those EA games that released on Wii U lacked content and/or suffered from issues.
Madden and FIFA lacked modes and content.
Mass Effect 3 Wii U launched one week after Mass Effect Trilogy launched on the other platforms at the same price (who wanted Mass Effect 3 Wii U when you can get the whole trilogy for $60 else where?)

All of Activision's M rated games are missing content and DLC.

Ubisoft's M rated games are missing content and DLC. They also run horribly on Wii U.
Funny enough ZombiU sold the best on Wii U, while the really recent PS4/Xbox One/Steam port bombed at $20 and is still dead in the water sales wise.

WB cut and run from Wii U with their AAA Blockbuster/M rated games and everyone screamed in horror, then in February they pulled the same thing on Steam users. Both times WB called the markets hostile and cited low sales.

etc...

Bayonetta 2 Wii U has sold as much as Xbox 360 Bayonetta 1 sold globally (Xbox 360 was the best selling version of the Bayonetta 1) without massive liquidation prices.
At it's current rate it might hit 1M sold tying the combined sales of original on both systems.


With that all said the main issues that nearly killed Wii U were:

1) Nintendo rushed the system through development to appease shareholders and retailers.
2) Nintendo was forced to divert resources from Wii U games to save the 3DS after 3rd parties started to bail during the 3DS second 6 months. This made most Wii U games extremely delayed past launch
3) Nintendo also delayed what completed Wii U games they had as part of their agreement with 3rd parties to get them on board at launch.
4) Nintendo mismarketed or failed to convey it properly during it's first 1.5 years.
5) 3rd parties didn't follow through on their promises and actively lead a public PR campaign against the system and Nintendo which hadn't been seen since Dreamcast.

It wasn't all Nintendo's fault, they could have handled it better.

It was always said that Wii U was a stop gap system until NX was ready.

Now for the features that Wii U did bring to the table:

1) Near perfect seamless streaming of games and videos to a second screen (no other companies have been able to stream as good as Wii U yet).

2) Second Screen console gaming - this prompted Sony to follow suit with some PS4 games that use smartphones and Vitas as second screens.

3) Off TV play - It just works. Sony promised all the PS4's library would be playable via streaming to Vita

4) Touch screen controls on a console - not for every game but those who are built with it do benefit. Sony added the touchpad to PS4 controller in response to the Wii U.

5) Headphone jack in the controller... Need I say more? This is why PS4 controller has a headphone jack.

6) Miiverse - The single greatest feature this generation. Sony responded with PSN communities.

7) NFC - Yeah being able to scan stuff to your Wii U is priceless. Though NA didn't get all the nifty stuff the rest of the world received.

Using the gamepad as a TV remote - interesting that no one bothered to do this before...

At least they tried to do something new....


As for the library the system has something for everyone and I have bought more full retail games for Wii U than I did for Wii and N64 (I was kid in the 90s).

The system gave us a really diverse library of retail games such as:

Bayonetta 2 double pack (the first print had 1 included)
Captain Toad:TT - The best puzzle/adventure game ever, only was made due to consumer responses over his levels in 3D World.
Hyrule Warriors - One of the best spin offs ever with over 300hrs+ of content and more to come soon.
Lego City Undercover - The best Lego game ever and it's original.
Mario Kart 8 - The most perfect Mario Kart game ever in terms of racing mechanics and track design
NSMB U - despite the graphics, the level design is one of the best ever in a 2D Mario game.
Nintendoland - despite the hate the game gets for being a launch title, it is one of the most fun and varied multiplayer games I have ever owned.
Sonic and Sega All Stars Transformed - Best kart racing game not named Mario Kart, Wii U version has exclusive content not found in the other versions.
Sonic Lost World - despite the controversial and mixed reviews is my favorite 3D Sonic game next to Generations. Add in the Nintendo specific DLC it makes it better.
Splatoon is the most refreshing original game made in quite sometime and it came from the younger guys at Nintendo SPD.
I spent too many hours on this addictive game.
Super Mario Maker - Why is making Mario levels so damn addicting?
Super Smash Bros U - Smash perfection and DLC!
Xenoblade Chronicles X - and odd pseudo sequel of sorts, but extremely fun RPG.

Most recently I bought Pokken which is the stupidest yet most engaging and entertaining fighter I have ever played to date.
Who'd though that a Pokemon fighting game would be fun.

Have no fear about Nikkei's report about Nintendo ceasing production of Wii U (Nikkei is one of the most reliable business publications in the world), Nintendo hasn't made any Wii Us since 2013.
They made ~15M originally expecting higher sales.

Now the question we all should be asking what will NX be labeled as?
NES - kiddie/family > SNES - kiddie/"casual"/family > N64 - kiddie/family > GCN - kiddie/family > Wii - "casual"/family/feminine > Wii U"casual"/family/feminine > NX -????

"Production values" only affect the AAA side of the industry, in the context of how you're speaking of it. Something like FEZ? It was made by FOUR GUYS. You're not going to get mind-blowing ultra-realistic bump-mapped super HDR shadow bombed graphics here, or whatever other terms I can make up. You're going to get a game that can be made by four freaking guys. On the NES or SNES, this only "never happened" because you HAD to be a major company to get the resources to put something out.

Hell, I've been involved in game development myself. The group I've been working with, Arcen Games.... who has put out some of my absolute favorite games... contracted me, and I helped them put out a game recently called Starward Rogue. This game does not have mind-melting 3D graphics and super dramatic cutscenes. I am so, SO happy to say that. If it had either of those things, I would not have entered the project. It's a 2D game, kinda like Binding of Isaac but with bullet-hell elements (which is my job). The game has had great reviews on Steam and from other so far... the one doing the most complaining is usually me, but even I think it came out fantastic. But it still lacks the brain blasting graphics and "production values". They're a small developer. Even just those 2D graphics? You wouldnt even believe just how much that costs to do. I'll put it this way: the project was completed, and there's no an expansion being made for the game, but it ALMOST didnt complete. The money drain during development started to get nasty. I ended up offering to just work for free for the last 3 weeks or so when it was clear that things were going a bit overboard. As "production values" go, even something with simple 2D graphics can be a monstrous money sink. Development is a risky business, and for small devs, this is a common scenario. There's no way the "production values" are going any higher. For many devs though... they dont WANT to go into that hyperactive 3D AAA realm. I went to games like these specifically because the AAA side was shallow, easy, and braindead. I like challenge and having to actually THINK, so... yeah.

As for things like artsy games (Gone Home I guess, I dont actually know what that is but I get the impression it's more of an "art game"), I dont know about those. I dont play any. Not my sort. I think anyone that knows me would probably laugh pretty hard at the very idea of me playing something like that. I would be forced to throw a chair at them.



That bit about dumbing down, yeah, I agree completely with that. I saw Fallout 4, and while I personally hate the series, your observation echoes things that friends of mine often said about it. But that's how the industry has been these days... and it's pretty much *the* reason why I always rail against the AAA side of the industry so hard, as that's usually where it is. The last AAA game I *almost* bought was Anno 2205; the previous game, Anno 2070, was FANTASTIC. After the Simcity Fiasco (thanks, EA) it's the game that filled that void wonderfully. But 2205? Uuuuugh. HORRIBLE. They dumbed it down. BADLY. It's a really nasty example of that. I know 2070 is complicated as all hell; it's the Dwarf Fortress of city-builders. But that's part of why it was so GOOD. With the new one, they took a "well we better make it appeal to everyone everywhere! COMPLEXITY HAS TO GO!" to the point where the new one is basically brainless. Half of the games mechanics werent even just dampened; they were outright removed. And not REPLACED with anything, *just* removed. It's now the single most simple game of that genre I know of. Brainless. No challenge, and not even any more of the explosions that tended to happen in the game. No explosions! That's a travesty.

And that's just THAT example. Ugh. I hate that. The small devs at least dont have to worry about that, they can make whatever the bloody hell they want. When working on the game i helped put out, I was able to make it.... difficult. MY version of difficulty. That'd never happen with a "major" game, no big dev would take the difficulty THAT far or anywhere near. God forbid the player not complete the game and see the all-important story after all, they might not buy the next 30 sequels!


For DLC, I dont have a problem with DLC. It used to be called "expansion packs" and the concept has been around since WAY before you actually had to DOWNLOAD it. Used to have to buy those in stores! The issue though is that the big publishers are ABUSING it. When done right, DLC can be a nice thing. I mean, hell, something like Binding of Isaac Rebirth's "Afterbirth" expansion... I was more excited for that DLC than I'd been for any FULL game in the past 5 years. And it lived up to the hype. That dev did DLC the way it was meant to be done. But the big guys? No. They'll suck every penny out of your nose, while trying to give you as little as possible so that they need not use any effort. It's pathetic. It's not how it's meant to work, but it's what they've turned it into. The jerks.




Nintendo DID, however, deny what Nikkei said. The reports of that one are all over the Net. Did... Nintendo just outright lie about it then? I cant say "they wouldnt do that!" but I still have at least a bit of a hard time believing that one (at the moment).

Nintendo has no reason to manufacture more Wii Us since they haven't sold through the initial stock yet.
Technically Nikkei is wrong, because Nintendo hasn't produce any Wii Us since 2013.

Though with IBM ending PPC production, it makes it near impossible to find someone wiling to manufacture the Wii U PPC chipset (CPU).

It's cheaper to cut their losses and push out new hardware that runs on a different chip architect (most likely they will be using ARM for the NX Console since their handhelds use ARM.).
It's literally that much cheaper than having to pay someone to produce a dead end chipset.

I could've sworn I posted in this a few minutes ago. I guess it didn't go through.

Anyway- why are you guessing people will only pay $200 for a Nintendo console? If you have some facts about console prices, thats one thing. However I think overall people will pay nearly any price for a console, as long as it has the games to go with it.

Wii U honestly could've been much better for third party games. Third party companies just don't like to take risks, so their usual games don't sell on Nintendo consoles that well. Plus its horrible the games get dumbed down due to laziness at times. I still remember how Wii (and perhaps even GameCube) had horrid ports for sports games. While I'm not a big sports games fan, it still shouldn't be dumbed down. Console versions of multi-platform games should be all the same IMO. However its no big surprise that third party support is lacking. Nintendo consoles are generally bought for first party games these days.

There is plenty of NPD and other market research data that shows people aren't willing to spend as much on Nintendo systems as they are on Sony and Microsoft systems.
It's in part due to Nintendo's "market" being more price sensitive than the "hardcore" market.

To put it this way no one wants to pay more than $200 for a "kids" system that filled to the brim with bright colorful E and T rated games.

People will willing pay upwards of $400 for a console that has state of the art graphics, next gen "hardcore" staples such as EA Sports, Assassins Creed, Call of Duty, GTA, etc...

There has been a lot of market research on the issue.

Right now the latest Call of Duty is the best selling game of the generation already at over 20M copies sold.

Not to mention the economy lately; as I understand it alot of people arent exactly loaded with funds right now. If they already have something like an XBone or PS4 (seems to usually be the first choice, one of those), well, good luck convincing them to buy another console. Many have enough trouble just buying another GAME, let alone another console. My own situation of being able to just buy whatever is very rare.

And some are content to have just the 3DS, as far as Nintendo's games go. There ARE lots of good things on there after all, including of course Pokemon, one of the big ones. Plenty of Mario too for fans of his games. And Monster Hunter too, that's where that series mainly is now. And it's portable.


That being said I agree on the above-mentioned bit about third-party games, the Wii U could have used many more of those, but... Nintendo consoles DO have a history of not having a good third-party selection (the NES and SNES did though, but even then there were... issues... that third-party publishers had to wade through to do those). The Wii was the exception, but... the majority of those 3rd-party games were *awful*. So I dont count them.

You can, but if your TV isn't CRT, it will probably look a little crappy, and there will probably be input lag. Some TVs have an option to eliminate input lag, though.

Also, the Super Scope won't work without CRT.

Do you have any numbers to back that up though? Game industry is booming and plenty of games are selling quite well on pre-orders alone. The economy might be bad in certain spots- but it really doesn't feel like it.

She's being a bit over dramatic.

Though we do have NPD leaks, UK charts, M-create, and what the publishers reveal.

Right now the only games charting and breaking 1M sales on Xbox One and PS4 are AAA Blockbuster games and sports games.
Everything else is bombing spectacularly on them.


The monthly and yearly NPD charts (NA sales) looks like this:

1) [AAA Blockbuster game Ubisoft]
2) The current Call of Duty
3) GTA mainline game
4) [AAA Blockbuster game EA]
5) [AAA Blockbuster game WB]
6) Madden [insert year]
7) NBA game [insert year]
Yearly NCAA Basketball game
9) Yearly NCAA Football game
10) [insert Sony, Nintendo, and/or other game here]

This is true for the West.

Every Xbox One and PS4 game has sold 1 Million or more total has been a shooter, GTA V, Call of Duty, Sports game and AAA Blockbuster title.

The two exceptions are Minecraft and Knack (Knack was bundled with PS4 outside of NA the first year).

on PS3 and Xbox 360 practically every game that sold 1M or more total was a shooter, GTA game, sports game and AAA Blockbuster game.

MineCraft, Kinect Adventure, LBP1 and Kinect Sports are exceptions.

The Last PS4 sales data showed the PS4 had an attach rate of 4.2 games per system (meaning the average PS4 owner owns 4.2 PS4 games).

At Nintendo's last financial briefing Wii U had an attach rate of 6.x games per system, 3DS had ~4 games per system and Wii still had ~9 games per system.

Microsoft haven't given us sales data on Xbox One in over 2 years, so we don't know it's attach rate, hardware sales, and software sales.

This means the Wii U owners own more games than the PS4 owners.


Obviously Wii U and 3DS are kinder to lesser 3rd party titles than Xbox One and PS4, which they see better sales on Nintendo systems.

I just go off of what people are constantly complaining about (I'm in the US, in Illinois). There's no jobs to get, they never have enough money, everything is doom, doom, DOOM! Or something like that. I dont work, myself, so my experience is A: limited, or B: non-existent.



One of these days I'll figure out why people tend to think I'm a girl.

Well, okay, I can think of a couple of reasons, but...

*cough*

So, wait, it sounds like things ARENT going so well for alot of publishers/devs in the industry, then? Those various things you list dont exactly sound good for anyone. Well, anyone not making a shooter or other super ultra major AAA game, of course. Or Minecraft, but yeah, that one's always an exception.

I pay less and less attention to the AAA side of the industry these days myself so some of this is increasingly over my head.

Depressing though to see that there arent exactly that many exceptions to that rule. LittleBigPlanet 1, I see. The Kinect ones I dont even want to think about.

Is that really it? I mean, surely there's a FEW others, right, even if not many? The central one that comes to mind is Street Fighter IV. ...that this is the ONLY one that comes to mind kinda bugs me.

Ugh, I havent had enough caffeine to fully handle stats like this.