simple and/or complex RPG's you've played?

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I was going to post that!, well Eye of the Beholder 2 actually, best and hardest RGP I ever played, I did have to get the instruction book though because some of those puzzles where just too hard, and even with an extra disk drive on my 1200, loading took a while back then!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO16yytTLxA[/youtube]

That's true, but in that case you winning or losing the game isn't really relying on its RPG elements as much as a more pure RPG does.

For example, let's say we have a fighting game with RPG elements. The primary determinant of whether I win or lose is still going to be my actual playing ability rather than my character's stats and build. The character's stats may play a secondary influence (and even a strong one at that) on how my character performs. But really the primary determinant is going to be how well I actually play the game, in terms of my reaction time, ability to do the moves, knowledge about moves and combos, etc.

Compare this with something like Final Fantasy, where usually if you build and set up your characters really well, you can basically act like a chimpanzee while in battle and you'll still probably win.

That's a good way to put it, and certainly cuts down significantly the amount of games that could actually call themselves RPGs

...but also might introduce a few new games that one might not consider to be an RPG.

I'm pretty sure Pokemon Mystery Dungeon would fall under this category. Why? Well, because those games rely heavily on RPG elements. This is how all of the games usually start off:

1. You're a human who's mysteriously transformed into a Pokemon; the only memory you have of your past life is your actual name.

2. You eventually run into another Pokemon, one who's actually gained an interest in you as an ally.

3. The two of you eventually set off on some kind of adventure together.

So in a way, the series is a bit formulamatic. But all of the storylines differ, and all are very well written; the story elements are just one of the reasons I praise the games for. But by far, my favorite of them would have to be Explorers of Time, Darkness, and Sky. Not just because of its storyline, but because many of its characters are extremely likable; even some of the villains are actually likable, because you can really feel for them.

As how I'd rate how hard/simple it is, I guess it just really depends on the person. I've played through these games too many times to count, so I actually know my way around them very well.

As I said before, many RPGs are far more combat orientated than narrative driven.
For example many S-RPGs.... Disgaea, Shining Force, etc.
If you behave like a chimp during combat, those games would probably annihilate you eventually... or perhaps quickly.

I do agree that Final Fantasy is kind of a thin RPG in many games.... the characters are pre-written, the combat involves leaning on one button, and you coulld also lean on one button to skip through all of the conversations and still do ok. Obviously, not all FF games are like this (FF7 : Crisis Core was rather good, for example) but yeah... generally speaking, it's not my favourite series.

Many RPGs have no statistic levelling element at all.
Like Zelda, for example.

I think you've just become my new favourite poster. (And FWIW Disgaea and Fire Emblem are pretty special games too, but Shining Force almost defined a part of my childhood) SRPGs to my mind capture the feel of a real RPG best, the slow-pace, the thinking and the strategy. (To this end the civilisation games also feel like a storyless-RPG at times)

I found Disgaea a little heavy on the grinding aspect, but the humour was worth it.

Actually for storylines, those late Saturn RPGs were quite awesome - Shining Force 3 and Panzer Dragoon Saga. The later was action orientated and had a fairly thin NPC element but excellent customization, story and a battle system whose complexity was misleading. Golden Sun was fun and I loved the music but the lack of SRPG elements kind of disappointed me.

Thinking ahead, other complex (if not necessarily hard) RPGs out there would include the Baldur's Gate series, Planescape Torment, Langrisser, Valkyria Chronicle...

Which reminds me that I need to get back into gaming again. Depression, and doing a master's degree really has been an enforced absence (though I haven't seen many great RPGs since 2005, all said, except Mass Effect). I think I need to start downloading some Steam games, get a cheap PSP and ensconce myself once more.

Except for Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Although getting an extra health container or a new sword is about as awesome as getting a level up.

Aw shucks, thankyou !
Shining Force for the wiiiin !

I've only recently started playing Fire Emblem (the 3DS version)
It's looking great so far, and I'm really enjoying it.






I guess, but isn't it an action-adventure platform game ?
And isn't the levelling up no more advanced than the kind found in Wonderboy ?


http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/cG5yRiBn0KqqiqMdx11pxwRkGp4ew8Eu

Thinking about it, even games like Gears of War or COD have 'statistic based levelling up' in the multiplayer modes based on XP growth.

your all useless no nomination :: of Resonance of Fate nor Yakuza , yes it's an Rpg , not a action brawler