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Kurgan
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10 Aug 2013, 12:50 pm

Title says it all.

Part 1:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw[/youtube]

Part 2:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NURfvG0lfpA[/youtube]



staremaster
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10 Aug 2013, 1:03 pm

Sad but true.



drh1138
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10 Aug 2013, 4:36 pm

Speaking of Doom, I've been having a lot of fun with the Brutal Doom mod for GZDoom. Gives the game a new life.



Bradleigh
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10 Aug 2013, 8:20 pm

This would only be true if Doom Suddenly shifted genre from being a survival horror shooter, I am not a fan of CoD does either. Based on the current popular version I would suspect it would have more in common with what Dead Space uses, which is always putting you alone, story told through creepy journals/scientific papers, and different strategies/weapons for different enemies. I have recently been playing Doom 3, and have noticed how it set a foundation that was used I games like the Dead Space series, while as of the third game had got pretty well down at trying to build up tension so that you did not know was going to happen.


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staremaster
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10 Aug 2013, 11:00 pm

The idea isn't Doom changing genre, its more like if the idea for the game that was Doom were implemented in the current time. If Doom were done today I bet it would put you in command of two or three other Space Marines, each of which would have his own cornball personality, and the player would constantly receive "intel updates" after every mandatory save checkpoint.



Misery
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11 Aug 2013, 12:48 am

Bradleigh wrote:
This would only be true if Doom Suddenly shifted genre from being a survival horror shooter, I am not a fan of CoD does either. Based on the current popular version I would suspect it would have more in common with what Dead Space uses, which is always putting you alone, story told through creepy journals/scientific papers, and different strategies/weapons for different enemies. I have recently been playing Doom 3, and have noticed how it set a foundation that was used I games like the Dead Space series, while as of the third game had got pretty well down at trying to build up tension so that you did not know was going to happen.



I dunno, I think they got it mostly right in that video; Doom was only a "survival horror" game in theme only, as the actual gameplay didnt come even remotely close to the usually slow and precise pacing that most survival horror games have. Instead, it was fast and frantic with lots of things to shoot and stuff to dodge. Doom 3 was an entirely different sub-genre, and was SO different from the originals that they seriously could have slapped an entirely different label on it and made it seperate from the Doom series entirely (and this actually would have made more sense). Couldnt stand that game, honestly.

That and I got the impression that the thematic stuff really wasnt what they were pointing out or focusing on at all in that video. It seemed more like the fact of comparing a game, Doom, that was THE major FPS back in that era.... with the current game/series that seems to hold that status, and the many bloody stupid trends that now go with it.


Entertaining video either way though; it did a superb job of pointing out the annoying and often dumb trends that are big in the genre right now, and somewhat big in gaming as a whole. I miss Doom and it's brethren; I used to really like the FPS genre, but nowadays I consider it by far the absolute worst gaming genre that there is.



Bradleigh
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11 Aug 2013, 1:05 am

But wouldn't you compare it more to Halo? There is the whole space marine thing, monsters of different shapes, sci-fi, etc.

CoD likes to try and pride itself on realism, something that obviously not planned with Doom. Maybe think Gears, Bioshock, Metro, but no CoD.

It is a good look at tropes, and as it is why I have little interest in CoD, to say that is the now shooter is being kind of silly.


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SabbraCadabra
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11 Aug 2013, 1:19 am

I think if DOOM were done today, it would look more like DOOM 3...


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Misery
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11 Aug 2013, 5:31 am

SabbraCadabra wrote:
I think if DOOM were done today, it would look more like DOOM 3...



I dunno about others, but as a fan of the older Doom games I always just pretend that number 3 never existed.

Besides, for all of it's graphical flair..... even Doom 3 is now a rather old game. It's almost 10 years old (a fact which surprised me just now when I looked it up to check...)! Alot of the current trends in the FPS genre (and gaming as a whole) werent quite set back then. Alot of things were very different in gaming as a whole. Doom 3's major issues wasnt really too much of the stuff showcased in these videos, it was more just that it wasnt at all true to the series; instead of being focused on wild action VS lots and lots of monsters with plenty of exploring labyrinths and environmental switch puzzles and secrets, it tended to be about spooky areas with very sudden fights versus just a couple of monsters, followed by more spooky stuff. Tried too hard to be a "survival horror" sort, and lost the charm that the series originally had. My own opinion can be summed up as: "It was really boring and slow". It wasnt really a BAD game, just not at all what I'd hoped for.

If Doom 3 hadnt come out then, but was instead coming out for the first time NOW, it'd likely be VERY different, and there'd be LOTS more restrictions and hand-holding and all of that crap.



Bradleigh
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11 Aug 2013, 6:16 am

I think that Doom 3 did follow what the original did, but where the original was limited at what it could do for horror, Doom 3 could go further. It had the issues with light, lots of weapons, enemies around corners and walls releasing them, exploding barrels retrieving items to continue on, and some puzzles. And the battles with lots of monsters is included; being swarmed by the spiders or floating heads are among the most frustrating bits, and often fights would include you preparing for a couple of waves.

Having last played an area filled with gas with lots of opponents which was a big maze, I find it silly to say Doom 3 was not that. And there are loads of hidden areas, although I suspect I have gotten too used to exploring areas and could find way more than I needed in the game. I wouldn't call it quite boring, the game does pull some nice twists at times, although so long later it can look off a bit.


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Misery
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11 Aug 2013, 8:31 am

Hmm, I dunno. I dont remember any areas in 3 that had lots of things attacking you at once. I remember maze-ish places with lots of enemies.... but they were scattered in there, not like 30 things attacking you all at the exact same moment (and with such rooms being frequent), which is more along the lines of what I'm used to.

Granted, it's been awhile since I've touched that third one.... that game didnt register with me too well so my memories of it are bound to be rather cracked.

There's also the fact that I'm kinda used to playing on the really high difficulties in those first two games (they're way too easy for me otherwise) and high monster counts in the first two games, and user levels designed around that fact.

Doesnt help also that the horror-themed bits in that one dont do anything for me.


I dunno. Whatever the reason, that third game really just didnt click with me. ....the occaisional cutscenes & talky bits also REALLY didnt help. I tend to be ridiculously impatient if games are making me sit through so much as ONE of those.

Still, it does occur to me that it may be worth revisiting at some point.

Though probably not for awhile; after the Quake-con Steam Sale I've got about 30 squillion levels to go through in Doom 1 and 2, as well as the Quake games, and Heretic and Hexen 1 and 2....



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11 Aug 2013, 8:15 pm

I think I have a higher opinion of Doom 3 than Misery, but I fundamentally agree that Doom 3 was a radical departure from the original even factoring in the technological gap, and I honestly prefer the style of the original. Doom 3 never threw more than a handful of enemies at a time, which after a while felt a little too regular and predictable. The imp, wraith, and maggot enemies were all pretty hard to distinguish from one another visually and gameplay-wise.



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11 Aug 2013, 11:52 pm

drh1138 wrote:
I think I have a higher opinion of Doom 3 than Misery, but I fundamentally agree that Doom 3 was a radical departure from the original even factoring in the technological gap, and I honestly prefer the style of the original. Doom 3 never threw more than a handful of enemies at a time, which after a while felt a little too regular and predictable. The imp, wraith, and maggot enemies were all pretty hard to distinguish from one another visually and gameplay-wise.


Yep. That's pretty much what I remember most about it. I suppose it depends on the player somewhat, as to what you'd consider "large numbers" of enemies to be. 40-50 imps is what I'd consider to be "alot of imps", but in Doom 3 the number would be much, much lower. Granted, it's not like Doom 1 and 2 threw entire armies at you every 2 minutes, but large hordes were to be expected nonetheless, and often complicated further by screwball area structure.

And the game's "jump scare" enemy encounters did nothing for it's difficulty when I played it, as due to my abnormal reaction speed any sudden low-count enemy attack was usually something that ends up just dying in my general direction. The first 2 games do have their moments of doing that as well though. Usually an imp or something that ends up painted all over the wall .2 seconds later.



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12 Aug 2013, 9:01 am

One thing I'm impressed with the vids is that they used Doom Guys name of Taggart. The full name is Fly Taggart, which only appears in the books. The books were super cheesey. IMO, they shouldn't remake Doom because it will be impossible to make it as good as the original.