Dark Souls, Or Why I Hate "Great" Games

Post Reply New Topic

Hey, yeah, been a little while. Got a new video card, been modding the hell out of the TES games, etc. What's new?

So Steam sale! Yay! On a friend's recommendation, I picked up Dark Souls for $7.50. I was immediately put off when I had to drop another $30 on a controller just so I could play the darn thing. But yeah. Great game. Great. Game. Once in a generation. That's what everyone is saying. But man, I sure can't see it. And it perfectly embodies everything I hate about a certain subset of gamer.

Yeah, the game is hardcore. It's also long. Graphics are... okay, at best. Better when you put a shader fix on there. Story... mediocre at best. It's not about the story, though, right? Wrong. The game takes like a million hours to beat. People need a reason to sink that much time into a game. I've played mmos since I was a wee lad. The first one that I really sank any time into was WoW, because it was the first to tell a progressive story. I cared about Arthas and Jaina, Thrall and Cairne, Vol'Jin and Muradin Bronzebeard. I wanted to find out what happened to them. In Dark Souls? There's the guy in gold armor that I kicked off a ledge. There's that dude staring longingly at the sun on the balcony. There's that depressed guy at the first bonfire. I don't care about any of these people. They're window dressing. They're there to look pretty and laugh creepily at you. There's nothing memorable about any of them. Borderlands doesn't have much of a story, either, but the characters were memorable, and that kept me interested. So tell me, why in the sam hell should I sink a gigazillion hours into this game and take the kind of punishment that it dishes out? Because it's hard?

It's not. The core game mechanics are not difficult at all. Get heater shield. Hide behind heater shield until enemy commits himself to a bad move. Kill enemy. Onto the next one. Yet the game is frustratingly difficult to play through. Part of this is the learning process, and that's fine. Every time I die, I learn where the ambush is at, or that that Drake actually follows me down the bridge. The problem is that it doesn't matter, because a lot of it is luck. One of the early bosses, the Capra Demon, is in a tiny room. You're supposed to run up the stairs behind him and jump attack him to kill him. Problem? The dude has enough reach that he can hit you anywhere but on the stairs, has uncanny aim (follows your dodge, for example), one shots you, and has two dogs that react in quicktime to your moves, often pinning you against the wall so you can't move. I have fought this boss dozens of times. I have made it to the stairs ten times. I have killed him once. It's not that he is difficult. The boss himself is not. It's reliant on luck, that those dogs zig when you zag in the opening moments. Another example is one section that has three firebombers on the roof of a building. You have to slowly climb a ladder, then run across a roof while they throw firebombs at you. Maybe you'll succeed. Maybe not. It depends... on luck. And that's my biggest complaint about this game. It's not hard in the traditional sense, where skill is key. I'm pretty good, but not great. I can massacre my way through leagues of enemies. And a lot of times I find myself getting offed by some schmo because backstab decided not to work despite being in position for it. The game is hard because of luck, and generally being a jerk to the player. Why should I play? I spent an hour and a half working my way through Undead Burg. I die, I respawn. I die, I respawn. I get nowhere. Whether it's lack of luck or lack of skill, I get nowhere, and the game gets boring. Why should I play?

Maybe it's because of the stunningly melancholy beauty of the world? Come again? I played ICO and Shadow of the Colossus. Those game worlds possessed a stunningly melancholy beauty. Dark Souls is just depressing. There's nothing particularly beautiful about it, but just melancholy. Rather than the subdued awe I felt at the aforementioned titles, I just felt blah. More browns, blacks, greys and deep greens. What fun, I've NEVER seen that color palette before. Between the bad textures, the depressing color palette, and the pathetic draw distance (I'd read signs on a balcony that said "Gorgeous View Ahead", only to be treated to some very low res landscape shots. Couldn't help but think that they're ironic), I felt like Dark Souls presented me with the absolute least beautiful world I've seen in a long time.

This is what annoys me about games. I like games. I pump hundreds of hours into games. I find them fun. Hence, the name game, you know, games are fun... never mind. What is it about hardcore gamers that makes them disdain games that are fun, and adore games where the only saving grace is a lack of handholding? Oh, wait, there's plenty of handholding (every tough encounter has signs saying "Try Parrying" or some such). If you don't like the game, many are cool with it, but man, can others be so damn condescending about it. Here's a newsflash. Playing Dark Souls to the finish will not make you a better person. I'm reminded of those movie buffs who give a sneering "different strokes, eh?" when they find out that no, you really did not see the artistic value of A Serbian Film. And this follows every single "great" game. Oh, I'd rather play Borderlands or Chivalry than Heavy Rain? Tsk, what a poser.

Anyway, rant finished.

Last edited by fueledbycoffee on 16 Jul 2013, 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

In this age of regenerating health, cover systems, and glowing arrows indicating the direction of the next objective, difficulty in single player games is treasured. I haven't played Dark Souls or Demons' Souls but I think people like them because they offer challenge that cannot be found in, say, Dead Space 3 or MGS4.

Honestly, I think alot of gamers have an extremely distorted idea about what it "hardcore" and what is "casual".

Demon's Souls, and Dark Souls.... they have challenge to them, sure, but they're not THAT damn hard. Once you know what to do in a given situation, you can beat that part without too much trouble. Do that, and make sure you get various necessary items, and you can win. They are however still seen as ultra-difficult to most players, and I do think that one of the biggest reasons for THAT is that so many other games are hyper-easy. Console games tend to be like that, and Dark Souls is a console title that was ported to PC.

A traditional Roguelike, a danmaku shmup, THOSE are "hardcore" games. Dark Souls is just "a challenge, somewhat" with quirky controls. And of course then you have people's usual thoughts on so-called "casual" games, which I find funny since I can think of quite a ton of games with that label that are really dramatically more difficult than "real" games.

Though, I still did enjoy this series myself, to a point. They were interesting and unique games, and at least had some challenging design to them. They also didnt focus at all on story, which to me is a HUGE plus. I hate cutscenes. Cant STAND them. And I tend to hate the writing in most games, as well as usually just not caring whatsoever. This one didnt force me to deal with any of that, and that was good. The prevalence of cutscenes and talky bits in so VERY many console games is one of the prime reasons why I abandoned those for PC stuffs.

The The Elder Scrolls?



Which controller was that?

I picked up the latest Logitech controller not too long ago (the wired one without force feedback, F310), and the analogue sticks could use some work (they're certainly not Nintendo quality, though I like that the sockets for them are round now instead of square like they were in previous models), but like the other Logitechs, the d-pad works surprisingly well.

Ok, I want to give my, if you can tell by looking at my avatar, extremely biased opinion. Obviously, I think Dark Souls is great, but some of your complaints resonate with me, and others don't.

I do agree that this game really isn't that difficult, assuming that you are both reasonably equipped, and you keep your cool. I also agree about the Capra Demon, I can't help but feel that this was a design oversight. However, once I figured out what to do at the start of the battle, I've been able to solo it 4 of our 5 times or so. You are also right that the characters are quite bland and uninteresting, as well as the story. I personally somewhat enjoy the mysterious nature of the setting, but I can see why people don't.

As for where I don't agree, I don't understand your complaint that the game is based more on luck than skill. In my experience, a keen eye, and a recognition of patterns nearly eliminates the luck factor from the game, which I find extremely liberating because I feel like every time I die, it was because I messed up somehow. That is a far cry from sports games I play, where I'm often at the mercy of how ret*d my players feel like being on any given day. As for the controller, you can just use an xbox 360 controller with a cord, but I'm guessing you don't have one.

I've had a lot of free time this summer while I'm on break from school, and I've seen a considerable amount of time on both Demon Souls and Dark Souls. Personally, I just love the feeling of adventure these games give, as well as the challenge inherent in the combat. I love exploring the various landscapes and stumbling upon all sorts of cool things, like treasure, special enemies, and even a whole hidden level. I also love the Metroid Prime games, as well as the old Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games for the same reason. The lack of direction really appeals to me for some reason. I also enjoy the fact that the game is long; I can't help but feel somewhat gypped if a game is too short, particularly an adventure game.

Personally, I love the game, but I understand that it is not for everyone. And I don't mean that in a condescending way either. You appreciate what the game has to offer or you don't. It doesn't say much of anything about you as a person. And there's certainly nothing wrong with Borderlands or Chivalry either. Games are meant to be fun after all, and both of those games are hella fun.

Wired offbrand X360 Controller. Afterglow or something. Works alright, but seems to have some issues with non-cardinal directions on the sticks. Of course that could be me. I hate the confounded buggers, controllers. I'd rather have civilized controls, but noooooo, someone decided not to localize their game to the system they were porting it to. Seriously, have you seen the PC controls? I'm not pissed off about it, I'm just confused. So I'm forced to use a controller, against my very nature. Woe is me.



See, there are times when I can see that. A lot of times when I die, it's from me being ret*d, or an enemy pulling off an unexpectedly slick move within the bounds of reality. That's cool, really cool, when they do that, halfway smart enemies are a rarity. A lot of times, however, it's because the enemy's jump attack followed my roll at 90 degrees, or my targeting reticle switched to another dude or off completely without me even touching the right analog stick. Arrows through walls, spears through walls, and so on. Sometimes, I can see the serious quality, others the game's just a douche. That's what I meant about having to get lucky. I have to be lucky enough that the game's not feeling douchey today.



Hell yeah, I just wish more people understood that. There was a time, when I was a wee 'un, that hardcore didn't exist and casual meant those $10 puzzle game from Walmart. Nowadays, if you admit to playing games for fun, you're trolled out of the building. Niche game communities can be some of the worst, too. Like they form their own little elitist club. I hated Ninja Gaiden for the same reason, since I find no fun in getting my butt kicked repeatedly. I caught so much flak for that one, I tell you. Thanks for being chill.

I really liked Dark Souls and played it through completely 4 times with one character and then another two with a different type of character. I have also just finished my first playthrough of Demon's Souls. I don't really give a crap about story and I agree that once you sus the game out and work out the attack patterns of the various enemies most are fairly easy with the right equipment (except Ornstein and Smough, they always wail on me). The thing that I like about these games is levelling up my characters. I am obsessive about it I spent hours grinding to increase my stats and there is a ever ending supply of enemies to do that with. I realise that that is probably not enough to hold most gamers attention but for me it is a really important aspect of games. I love being able to level up character and equipment etc. I sunk over 250 hours in total into Dark Souls and so far am up to about 55 on Demon's Souls and waiting for Dark Souls 2 to be released but will probably need to find something else to fill my time until then.

I have the same type of controller, the Afterglow, and I also noticed directional issues on it while playing the new Tomb Raider. I rather like Dark Souls, but have to play it in spurts. I agree that it really is a damn dreary, ugly game. TBH, I only picked it up because I found out it was done by the same company that did the King's Field series.

For the record though, Dark Souls ain't got nothin' on Borderlands 2; man, I love that game!

I agree with you , having said that I do enjoy the game and it's depressive themes are quite unique for a video game, it's a good game not a fantastic one it's the hipsters that are ruining it

And I've played mainstream games on the hardest difficulty which are more challenging why do they lie it's the hardest game ever, it's not it's challenging though by no means impossible, most people who hate it suck at games, and judging by You Tube theirs quite a number of them , this isn't skyrim folks

the thing is it's not even that hard only compared to most games of today that shows you how to poo than flush the toilet for you !
People who complain it's difficult are playing it stupidly , are they levelling up ? even learning the basic moves like parrying , trying to fight more than one enemy at a time.

any games that has a learning curve is deemed "difficult"

Yeah, pretty much.

Demon's Souls was pretty much the same way. Very much like the old NES Megaman games.... difficult, but it really was all about learning enemy/boss patterns. Once you had those down, it wasnt that tough at all. It could have it's tricky spots, but for the most part learning patterns undid the difficulty of it.

And you're right, it only counts as "hard" compared to all the usual console crap, which is often easy to the point of being a little absurd.

well can't they find a middle ground ? back in the day many games where to hard now their to easy with the odd exceptions like Ninja Gaiden 2 , with all the hype I thought it would be NG hard

might give NG a go again my 1st attempt at it and it felt cheap

challenge some what you nailed it their

My problems with the actual so called great games, is that they are mostly really boring. They are produced by big studios, that have putted tons of money in it, with the goal of selling the game in masses. Which means in the end, that they dont risc anything. Maybe the have some new little gadgets, but thats it. Be it Tomb Raider, be it Resident Evil, be it Assasins Creed, they are all the same kind nowadays: Action shooters/fighters with a bit of wannabe-riddles, some items that you can search for without any need to get an meaningless achievement, and some videos as "present" for the players for playing that boring stuff.

The last so called great games I played were all of an dissapointment and really not worth to play them again. In oppositiont to some less popular niche games, I bought during the last time that were really fun.

^^^^

that's the saddest thing some of these great games where once great and over time became dumbed down rubbish, the only great game I like is GTA, I'm not sure DS is a great game just a loud minority who refuse to see the games faults.

did it even sell over a million ?

I don't see the point of playing games that are difficult purely for the sake of being difficult, like Dark Souls or I Wanna be the Guy or whatever. I play video games for enjoyment, and if a game is difficult enough that it makes me rage, I usually get bored of it and move on to something else.

At the same time though, I'm not a fan of games that are excessively easy and hold your hand the whole way through. I remember one of my biggest complaints with Borderlands was that the questing system was absolutely mindless and basically involved following an arrow, whereas in a good RPG you would typically have to figure things out more for yourself.

Last edited by mr_bigmouth_502 on 23 Jan 2014, 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.