911 issue: I wonder, what do majority of American ppl

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Fnord, I see a lot of putting down and ridiculing other posters, but I don't see much evidence coming from your part other than regurgitation of the 'official story' you've been trained to recite...

Spose it's a good tactic, though. Go "Hahaha! Look at the loony! He's crazy! Look! He believes stupid stuff! Only idiots believe that! Hahaha! Look at the crazy guy!" rather than enter into a proper debate with your own theories and ideas and listen to what other people have to say... quells that niggling thought at the back of the mind that comes with other people presenting something other than what you're meant to believe and the thought that maybe they're onto something, doesn't it?

I don't see anyone doing any insulting or ridiculing here on the 9/11 false flag/truth movement 'side', but a lot of sites intended to ridicule to keep the fearful status quo linked in your signature...

Just a thought.

[quote]Wow.. I'm so not someone who seeks attention, I'm just someone who believes what I believe, the same way a christian believes what they believe.. the simple fact is people dont like chaos, and going around telling everyone something that challenges something they've already accepted as truth is too shocking to the system to even toy with the idea that they're wrong. People don't like to be told what to believe, and that's why you name call and b***h.


Most of the people I know who think that 9-11 might have been an inside job, don't care enough to explore it further and they definitely don't have the guts to talk about it openly.

You are right in that it is wrong to be ridiculed for thinking independently. But all leaders must learn how to stand alone before they can persuade people to follow.

Last edited by Magnus on 03 Sep 2008, 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This is an excerpt from prisonplanet.com

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Wednesday, September 3, 2008

During an impassioned speech in which he called for a revolution to take back the country, former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura voiced 9/11 truth to the 10,000 in attendance and the millions watching on C-Span and You Tube at the Rally For The Republic yesterday.

Ventura also strongly hinted that he is considering running for the presidency in 2012.

“I’m going to move on to another subject that a lot of people don’t want to discuss today,” he said, “I know when I discuss it, it’s amazing, I get attacked! And that’s something called 9/11!”

The crowd cheered and applauded as Ventura made numerous salient points about the FBI’s failure to list 9/11 on Bin Laden’s rap sheet and the DOJ’s failure to charge him.

I found another great website for debunking 911 conspiracy theory:

http://www.southerncrossreview.org/41/9-11.htm

It includes an extensive list of credible experts in fields that are actually relevant to conditions and events of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. A link will be included in my signature from now on.

Some believe that Popular Mechanics is state sponsored media. As do I.

http://www.rense.com/general62/ppop.htm

That was an "Ad Populum" fallacy - stating a claim is true solely because people believe in it.

911 Conspiracists believe:

1) Anyone who shares their point of view is not state-controlled or sponsored.
2) Anyone who refutes their point of view is state-controlled or sponsored.
3) Anyone else is a mindless "sheeple."

That's why it's pointless to argue against 911 Conspiracists - if you disagree with them, then you're under control of the government; and if you don't care, then you're too stupid to matter.

I believe that the 9/11 attacks actually happened by actual terrorists, because most people I know believe in it, really.

As is your belief in the 'official line'.



Reminder: You, too, are a '9/11 Conspiracist'.

^^ Is that the official line? I often wondered ... thanx!

You added a new link on your signature!

I believe the same - not because "most people" believe in it, but that those who have examined the evidence have also used their expertise to produce a conclusion that is simple, straight-forward, concise, and easier to understand than the complex, convoluted, rambling, and obtuse theories put forth by the denizens of Spare Change.

Really, if the 911 Conspiracists would get all of the same experts to recant all of their own statements and support the "Government Did It" theory, then I'd be right there behind them.

Really.

Yes, exactly, however, I seriously ask myself when we believe in stuff because we are basing it on examination by experts and what we consider a reliable source, wouldn't this be some sort of Appeal to authority? To be honest, I believe we all fall into that.


Well, even if they do, would you think it would be easy to really consider it? I think you and others may still be questioning them, after all, the official source is considered a more reliable source than whatever source they could get.

It is (I think) impossible to be entirely void of fallacious reasoning. However, to minimize fallacy to the smallest possible component of our beliefs more practical.

Sure, I put my faith in authorities, but only those authorities who seem to have credible expertise in a relevant field of inquiry. I also put my faith in peer-group-review, so that a majority consensus must be achieved by those same experts before I will consider their conclusions. Finally, a simple (yet detailed), straight-forward, concise, consistent, and easy to understand conclusion must be presented; one that answers every question - or at least answers more questions than it raises - and that does not propose conditions beyond what the available data will support.


That's the crux of their problem; any relevant expert who examines all of the available data reaches the same conclusion - the "Moslem Extremist" conclusion. The "Government Conspiracy" conclusion just does not stand up under intense scrutiny by relevant experts.

But ... change the minds of all the relevant experts, and I'll change mine.

It's just that simple.

Oh but that's the thing, you admit that you put a leap of faith to those authorities, so you agree with me that we all fall in to that, wether it is into science or religion or the paranormal or something else.

I also believe that the scientific method is the way to get more accurate facts than any other way, I certainly don't give absolute certainty to it. Because after all, as is the best we have to get knowledge, when it comes to natural laws, the question is, should we put a complete trust with 100% faith in it? Would it be unreasonable to consider uncertainty in all aspects, even in science? Would it be unreasonable to consider the possibility of religion and the paranormal being right after all, and the scientific method not being enough for human knowledge?. I mean, what would be so wrong with it? is a little of flexibility so wrong?

Well, I admit I am going somewhere else and going a little off-topic

When it comes to 9/11, well, my personal opinion, certainly some aspects have a special touch to appeal audience, aesthetic nature of telling a story, if you will, some things might be exaggerated, colorful ingredients to make it more interesting, I think of that possibility being likely, not to mention the interpretation of people when getting the message,
However, that wouldn't mean a "conspiracy theory" takes place, comming up with stories like that, doesn't make sense to me, however, doubting the official story does.


We go back here with the appeal of authority here, it wouldn't mean to be a fallacy in this case, necessarily, but, it doesn't mean the actual truth either, in the strict sense.

Last edited by greenblue on 03 Sep 2008, 10:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

You are generalizing.

Hi! i´ve been away on holidays for a few days and now im back I find there are 15 pages already in this thread!? I thought it would be over already
I appreciate all your comments, many of them very interesting ones. But i´ve read some post from ppl who are ridiculing others and i dont like that. I believe there´s no need to ridicule anyone in order to state an opinion.

Anyway I´d like to end the thread at least on my part. Of course you´re free to keep posting your opinions on this matter if you like.

Thank you all