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911 issue: I wonder, what do majority of American ppl

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Psimulus
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04 Sep 2008, 12:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
ZakFiend wrote:
None of what you said has anything to do with the fact experts are frequently wrong...

None of what you say has any bearing on whether the experts who debunk the 911 Conspiracists' "Government Did It" version are right or wrong.

In any given situation, one expert may be very wrong, two experts are less wrong, and even more experts drive down the error rate as far as it can go. This is because experts practice something called "Peer Group Review", wherein experts of the same discipline check each other's work and correct each other's errors.

The "Government Did It" type of 911 Conspiracist has no such check-and-correct system in place. The are the Luddites of intellectual expertise.

Conspiracists are self-serving.
Expertise is self-correcting.

I'd trust one fallible expert over scores of blathering Luddites any day.


You dont consider this forum to be peer review?



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04 Sep 2008, 12:44 pm

Psimulus wrote:
You dont consider this forum to be peer review?

No.

How many 50-something caucasian male Navy veterans with an Electrical Engineering degree, an Asian wife, a career in the transportation industry, and a home in southern California can there be in this forum?

One, according to my count.



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04 Sep 2008, 1:08 pm

Fnord wrote:
Psimulus wrote:
You dont consider this forum to be peer review?

No.

How many 50-something caucasian male Navy veterans with an Electrical Engineering degree, an Asian wife, a career in the transportation industry, and a home in southern California can there be in this forum?

One, according to my count.


It seems unlikely that Stereotyping, racism, and generalization, will get us very far very quick.



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04 Sep 2008, 1:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
ZakFiend wrote:
None of what you said has anything to do with the fact experts are frequently wrong...

None of what you say has any bearing on whether the experts who debunk the 911 Conspiracists' "Government Did It" version are right or wrong.

In any given situation, one expert may be very wrong, two experts are less wrong, and even more experts drive down the error rate as far as it can go. This is because experts practice something called "Peer Group Review", wherein experts of the same discipline check each other's work and correct each other's errors.

The "Government Did It" type of 911 Conspiracist has no such check-and-correct system in place. The are the Luddites of intellectual expertise.

Conspiracists are self-serving.
Expertise is self-correcting.

I'd trust one fallible expert over scores of blathering Luddites any day.


If all of the special engineers and scientists who did this infamous 'study' that you speak of are on the government payroll, then what difference does it make whether its one man or 10..? I have to say, I've seen no such documentation that's taken to the extreme you're referring to, sounds made up, and if there was such a thing, it doesn't hold any water.. You admit experts can be wrong just like regular people.. well an expert with a script is even less credible.. information is edited when it goes on the news to distort the story so bad, why would it be any different for information that might criminalize the government..?



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04 Sep 2008, 2:35 pm

Psimulus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Psimulus wrote:
You dont consider this forum to be peer review?

No.

How many 50-something caucasian male Navy veterans with an Electrical Engineering degree, an Asian wife, a career in the transportation industry, and a home in southern California can there be in this forum?

One, according to my count.

It seems unlikely that Stereotyping, racism, and generalization, will get us very far very quick.

Stereotyping? Where? What stereotypes were mentioned?
Racism? Just mentioning race is racism? You gotta be kidding!
Generalization? I thought it was pretty specific.



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04 Sep 2008, 2:48 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I'd trust one fallible expert over scores of blathering Luddites any day.

If all of the special engineers and scientists who did this infamous 'study' that you speak of are on the government payroll...

Show me the paystubs ... don't have any? Too bad...

Anyway, If ALL of the experts were paid or reimbursed by the government, then their conclusions might be suspect, but without independent research by other relevant experts that draws a different conclusion, your suspicions remain mere suspicions.

That's why I keep insisting that the 911 Conspiricists that uphold the "Government Did It" model go out and hire their own experts, provided that their expertise is in a relevant field (no more truck drivers expounding on how a plane flies, or accountant explaning how building collapse).

ShawnWilliam wrote:
then what difference does it make whether its one man or 10..? I have to say, I've seen no such documentation that's taken to the extreme you're referring to, sounds made up, and if there was such a thing, it doesn't hold any water.

Because it is not just the government-funded NIST study that has reached the same conclusion.

ShawnWilliam wrote:
You admit experts can be wrong just like regular people.. well an expert with a script is even less credible.. information is edited when it goes on the news to distort the story so bad, why would it be any different for information that might criminalize the government..?

Show me the script. Oh ... you don't have a copy? Too bad ... there goes your claim of a "scripted" report...



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04 Sep 2008, 2:54 pm

Fnord wrote:
Psimulus wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Psimulus wrote:
You dont consider this forum to be peer review?

No.

How many 50-something caucasian male Navy veterans with an Electrical Engineering degree, an Asian wife, a career in the transportation industry, and a home in southern California can there be in this forum?

One, according to my count.

It seems unlikely that Stereotyping, racism, and generalization, will get us very far very quick.

Stereotyping? Where? What stereotypes were mentioned?
Racism? Just mentioning race is racism? You gotta be kidding!
Generalization? I thought it was pretty specific.


Please forgive me if I have offended, I do not mean to stir discontent. It seemed to me that you were implying that only white males who are 50, are Navy veterans, are married to someone from Asia, who have a career in transportation and reside in southern California are the only people who are qualified to review the assertions of their peers. Though I see now you were referencing the nist report. I inadvertently thought that you were referring to the peer reviewed investigation of 9/11. Though in defense of a portion of my statement, I do not comprehend how your location or the ethnicity of your betrothed are relevant. On a side note, would you be interested in reviewing a device I invented called the Helix Turbine?



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04 Sep 2008, 3:52 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMF6biCJU&NR=1

Here's a troop from Iraq and his thoughts about 9/11



mariag
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04 Sep 2008, 4:45 pm

hi, well it seems ppl don´t want to end this thread...wasnt as i expected honest! :roll:
Anyway, i agree with you Shawnwilliams and others but i didnt start it in order to give my opinion, just was curious to see what opinion do ppl in the States have about it these days.
So I already have a clearer picture about it. Thanx everone!



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04 Sep 2008, 4:47 pm

mariag wrote:
Anyway, i agree with you Shawnwilliams and others but i didnt start it in order to give my opinion, just was curious to see what opinion do ppl in the States have about it these days.
So I already have a clearer picture about it. Thanx everone!

Most people don't have an explicit opinion on it since most don't really consider something that happened mostly to other people seven years ago to be part of their daily lives.


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04 Sep 2008, 5:02 pm

the majority of american people think that gas prices are too high. 911 was so 7 years ago. and the best models were made in the 70s and early 80s.


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04 Sep 2008, 5:28 pm

Orwell wrote:
mariag wrote:
Anyway, i agree with you Shawnwilliams and others but i didnt start it in order to give my opinion, just was curious to see what opinion do ppl in the States have about it these days.
So I already have a clearer picture about it. Thanx everone!

Most people don't have an explicit opinion on it since most don't really consider something that happened mostly to other people seven years ago to be part of their daily lives.


Such ignorance.. Most people have an opinion on it whether they are ignorant to it or not.. :?



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04 Sep 2008, 5:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
Psimulus wrote:
You dont consider this forum to be peer review?

No.

How many 50-something caucasian male Navy veterans with an Electrical Engineering degree, an Asian wife, a career in the transportation industry, and a home in southern California can there be in this forum?

One, according to my count.


What does that have to do with anything..?



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04 Sep 2008, 7:05 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:
Orwell wrote:
mariag wrote:
Anyway, i agree with you Shawnwilliams and others but i didnt start it in order to give my opinion, just was curious to see what opinion do ppl in the States have about it these days.
So I already have a clearer picture about it. Thanx everone!

Most people don't have an explicit opinion on it since most don't really consider something that happened mostly to other people seven years ago to be part of their daily lives.


Such ignorance.. Most people have an opinion on it whether they are ignorant to it or not.. :?

In any case, most people don't really think about 9/11 all that much. I don't know if I would classify a belief as an opinion if that belief has gone entirely unopposed. For example, is it my opinion that America fought a war in Vietnam? Well, no, not really, because I have never heard that disputed and so I simply count it as established fact. For the vast majority of people, that's what 9/11 is- the idea of Arab hijackers crashing planes into buildings are simply the facts of the event rather than an opinion.


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04 Sep 2008, 7:45 pm

Orwell wrote:
ShawnWilliam wrote:
Orwell wrote:
mariag wrote:
Anyway, i agree with you Shawnwilliams and others but i didnt start it in order to give my opinion, just was curious to see what opinion do ppl in the States have about it these days.
So I already have a clearer picture about it. Thanx everone!

Most people don't have an explicit opinion on it since most don't really consider something that happened mostly to other people seven years ago to be part of their daily lives.


Such ignorance.. Most people have an opinion on it whether they are ignorant to it or not.. :?

In any case, most people don't really think about 9/11 all that much. I don't know if I would classify a belief as an opinion if that belief has gone entirely unopposed. For example, is it my opinion that America fought a war in Vietnam? Well, no, not really, because I have never heard that disputed and so I simply count it as established fact. For the vast majority of people, that's what 9/11 is- the idea of Arab hijackers crashing planes into buildings are simply the facts of the event rather than an opinion.


it's true that people dont care that much, and their opinion isn't worth much because they don't let it affect their lives to understanding.. that's why they're sheeple, and they were conditioned to not have an opinion that counts.. that's part of the major suppression of the masses.. that's the spell that's been cast up.
But ask people on the streets and the majority think it's an inside job.



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04 Sep 2008, 7:54 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:
it's true that people dont care that much, and their opinion isn't worth much because they don't let it affect their lives to understanding.. that's why they're sheeple, and they were conditioned to not have an opinion that counts.. that's part of the major suppression of the masses.. that's the spell that's been cast up.
But ask people on the streets and the majority think it's an inside job.

Oooh, "sheeple" ... or people choose to focus on other things in life.

"ask people on the streets and the majority think it's an inside job." Seriously? No. Just absolutely no. I really wish I had my psych textbook with me (left it at home when I moved to college) so I could look up the correct term for this. I think it's the "false consensus effect." Basically, you erroneously believe your own views to be more common than they are. The vast majority of people do NOT believe 9/11 was an inside job. That is very much a fringe view.


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