Secret of the Lusitania

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Yeah, its human nature at its best

Germans were not evil in World War I, not in the least bit. Please provide some evidence to support such an outlandish claim. The Germans fought with great gallantry and honor. Stories like this and the unfair treatment the Allies imposed onto Germany after the war (including a continued blockade that resulted in nearly a million Germans starving) are exactly what led to the rise of National Socialism. Don't forget the Allies also fought a war of unrestricted submarine warfare. And before any bleeding heart accuses me of being a revisionist or a sympathizer, keep in mind I am completely neutral on the issue. World War I was a conflict that had no real purpose, and every power had huge celebrations in their capital cities when the war broke out. The concept of it being 'Democracy' vs 'Tyranny' is flawed, especially if you delve into the actual history. I think the only power of World War I that could genuinely be considered 'evil' would be the Ottoman Empire, and their massacres of Armenians and Pontic Greeks. Bastards... As for the other Central Powers though, they were no worse then the Allies were at this time. Did you know that in Britain, simply questioning the war would land you in jail? The 'Lost Generation' rose out of this war because everybody was lied to by their governments, including the Entente powers.

Yes indeedy, Kapitänleutnant Schwieger was quite the ghoul. Did you know he also fired on a (clearly marked) hospital ship? Fortunately he missed.

Perhaps because it was a major event in a war which established the boundaries of the world we live in today? Maybe because of the consequences of the war and its aftermath (the establishment of the Soviet Union, the rise of American power and the decline of European nations, the redrawing of borders both in southern Europe and the Middle East) still affect events, even now? Possibly because if it had never happened, the world would be a completely different place? Or maybe you're right, it's just old stuff that doesn't mean anything at all .

What does it matter? War is hell innocent people get hurt and really bad stuff happens. If you don't like it don't support wars.

"But think of the children on that ship!"

What about them? 10 times that number die every day in more horrible and painful circumstances. Fix that first.

They were just a convenient excuse to get public support for the war declaration the government officials wanted.

Hospitals bombed, schools bombed, civilians lined up and shot... that's what happens when you give sociopaths guns and set them loose.

It's never a good idea.

I'm confused. So do you NOT give a s**t about the deaths of innocents? Or the other way round?

I care I just have perspective. A couple hundred are nothing compared to the millions suffering and dieing every day. Isn't it dishonest of people to care about a couple hundred people on a ship while ignoring the greater horror?

I say care about the big problems first then when those are sorted worry about the small incidents.

The attacking of the Lusitania was a black flag operation to push us into war. Same with Pearl Harbor, The Gulf of Tonkin incident, and the 9-11 attacks. History always repeats itself and those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Obviously we never learn from the past.

Wholeheartedly agree.



Sad but quite likely.



And then we try to clean the mess up to the best of our ability having to countenance the fact that the sociopaths will likely want to put human shields in military targets or hide bases under civilian buildings. It takes guts to stand up to psychopaths but to those living in these countries, *please* do what you can before we have to - we don't like war, we just find ourselves the last man/woman standing who's willing to take accountability almost any day of the week (among Britain, Australia, and Canada who find the same to be true).

You assume that those who care about the few ignore the plight of the many, which would be incorrect. Millions die every day of a multitude of reasons, most of them individual to that case or position. By dealing with the microcosms, we ensure that at least some of the deaths are prevented or explained or whatever. Helping even one person is as noble as helping a million.

This small incident was integral to events that lead to greater ones... like the involvement of America in the first war.. a broadly isolationist nation becoming a part of the world at large. That war was responsible for a multitude of changes, small and large, that have affected every event since, to a greater or lesser degree. American history is as much a product of this event as European History. Is it not fair to say that it is quite important in the great scheme of things? If nothing else, it was part of events that have lead to the "horrors" to which you refer.

I wouldn't say ignore more like place less importance on.

Sure it's historically significant but it's still history as in it has already happened, cannot be changed, and is not influencing current events, therefore the only real significance it has is academic at best.

And yet people still get more riled up over it than things that are happening now.

Events like this are quite capable of influencing current events, and changing the popular mood.
By the very nature of what is happening, history IS being changed. It is a fluid medium, because our understanding of it can adapt and change rapidly based on seemingly insignificant finds. People have what they believe to be an understanding of events, only to see everything changed over new documents or evidence.

I see no indicators that anyone in this thread places less importance on one area than another. The thread is about a given subject, so of course the discussion will revolve around that. Rwandan Genocide, as important as it was, is probably not relevant to the subject. (To choose a random example.)

Ok, the facts (at least as I know them)

The Germans did put adds in the NY Times, etc., stating that a war was going on, and people took shipping through the war zone at their peril.

Churchill and his crew did come up with ideas like 'Q-ships' ('freighters' that had hidden cannon to attack German U-boats. The Germans originally picked up crews from ships, but after awhile, it just got too much for them to rescue a thousand here or there). But he was probably distracted by the munitions crisis at the time.

The Germans did get the US in an uproar over the Lusitania. but still stayed out of the war for another 2 years (Wilson ran on the '16 platform of 'he kept us out of war')

What did get the US into the war was the Zimmerman telegram, which promised that if Mexico would join Germany, the Germans would attack the US, and in return, Mexico would get New Mexico and Arizona back). We were already deep in the Mexican Civil War there, chasing Pancho Villa.

The British intercepted the message, decoded it, and 'leaked' it to the US government.

It is called War, during which people are killed and assets are destroyed. The German Consulate posted a very prominent warning in the New York newspapers warning Americans and other boarding in the Port of New York that the ship could be attacked. Anyone who went on board brought death and disaster down upon their own heads. Fair warning was given and the warning was ignored.

The captain of the Lusitania did not even zig-zag. He had orders to arrive on schedule. That is Cunard for you. When the Titanic sailed J. Bruce Ismay (Bruce the Brave) recommended to Capt. Smith that he go balls to the wall even with pack ice drifting about. And we know what happened in that instance.

ruveyn

It is called War, during which people are killed and assets are destroyed. The German Consulate posted a very prominent warning in the New York newspapers warning Americans and other boarding in the Port of New York that the ship could be attacked. Anyone who went on board brought death and disaster down upon their own heads. Fair warning was given and the warning was ignored.

The captain of the Lusitania did not even zig-zag. He had orders to arrive on schedule. That is Cunard for you. When the Titanic sailed J. Bruce Ismay (Bruce the Brave) recommended to Capt. Smith that he go balls to the wall even with pack ice drifting about. And we know what happened in that instance.

ruveyn