Why Do Germans Think Americans Are Insane?

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Yeah and next you're going to try to pin elitism on Conservatives and Republicans when it seems to be more of a problem of Democrats and Liberal Progressives.

I want to know how the OP plans to pay for this generous social safety net. We can't tack the cost on to the national debt anymore or we will have our credit rating downgraded, which in turn would hurt our ability to pay our existing debts. If we raise taxes now, we take money out of the best performing parts of our economy- hindering it's growth. What would the OP do?

I never said elitism was the cause of the problem. No, it's the BS artists in the conservative movement playing up on the angry populists in plaid shirts angle who have wrecked our economy.
Besides, what's wrong with being an elitist? What's wrong with being educated, with intellectual interests? Sure beats the intellectual mediocrity of the Sarah Palin and Dubya Shrub conservative types, which takes pride in not knowing anything.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Can we seriously not continue to provide a social net? A healthy country is made up of healthy citizens. Ever care to look at the third world s**t holes where the government could care less about their people, where the life expectancy is something like twenty five?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Well Bill, you've probably lived longer than i have, but Palin and Bush represent anti-intellectualism, which is often associated with post-modernism. They basicly think that they are right and that the "system" is hiding the "truth" from them, so they tend to interpret things by themselves without giving a flying duck what anyone says. Anyways, look it up, it's interesting.

Sorry if i'm not telling you anything new here. ^^;

Please, no apologies. I find your take on the conservative mind fascinating.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

A social safety net is important, but right now we don't have the means to fix ours. If we take money that is being used to rebuild the economy, tax it heavily, and use it to help people live hand to mouth, you are going to end up with a lot more people living hand to mouth than you originally started with because the economy was weakened by the taxation. If we raise the national debt anymore to pay for a safety net, our credit rating will drop, we will lose trillions in foreign investments, and we will default on our debt. No matter what we did right now to fix the safety net, we would make matters worst than when we started. We will have to wait until the economy picks up again to implement such a program.

And in the mean time, what are those in need to supposed to do, other than die? I'm willing to bet they'll die before the almighty and all knowing free market creates jobs for them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Fascism?

Have you ever heard the expression "not everything that shines is gold"?
The whole cradle-to-grave concept, which I personally find quite creepy and misleading, is payed mostly with the taxes of the overburdened european middle class and its results are not that amazing.

Whats most funny about this article, besides the obvious political bias, its the fact that in 2009 the social-democrats were DEFEATED by a liberal coalition (liberal means libertarian in Europe), the Free Democratic Party, so the Christian Democratic Union formed a new goverment with them, which basically means the very germans dont believe their state was that "fantastic"







Actually the NAZI social safety net was a very effective method of control by the state over its citizens.



Oh, please.



A state subsidy payed with taxes is the same as a food stamp only under a different name.



The state, taxes and burocracy will save America, sure
This article is just political propaganda, a painfully obvious one, nothing more.

What countries are you talking about exactly?
Because FYI in many third world countries the state tends to do more harm than good and "caring for its people" usually means forcing on them a substandar state healthcare.

Really?

First things first: Please excuse my poor English, I'm German

I just stumbled upon this discussion thread. I shouldn't spend so much time on the i-net. This was a really interresting thing to read, and i feel obligated to comment some things, because I have had my share of experiences with our "social safety net". To be clear it's by no means perfect - nothing is.

Point is: Most of us Germans think the US are in fact (at least a little) crazy. Some people here in this discussion asked how you should pay for something like a "social safety net". I would say, a country which is more concerned waging wars in foreign countries should focus on their own people first. how much of your countries expenses go to social services? how much to your military? It is in fact kind of insane to let people in your own country suffer from hunger and do nothing to help them while waging wars in the rest of the world. How many current conflicts in foreign countries do you have today?

But let's stick to the topic:

In Europe, especially in Germany, there is the problem with people who live of the money they get from the state while unemployed and do not try to find a job. Remember, this is the exception and not the case. But, on the other hand, check out the unemployment rates of our country by yourself and you'll see that we are still comparable to the US. (Search for "Arbeitslosenqoute", it means "unemployment rate")

Some years ago I was diagnosed with a severe borderline-personality-disorder. I had a lot of difficulty in my jobs and because of my mental condition was forced to quit my jobs, find a new one and eventually i got fired or had to quit...

It took me some time to get diagnosed and be treated with psychotherapy and I had to go to rehab for several months more than once. I can't imagine to live in a country without a general healthcare system or a social safety system there people like me might never get the change to live a normal life, because they can't afford to pay for medical care like mental hospitals or therapists and without these they might never be able to get a job and work again.

Another reason for Europeans to think that Americans are the extremes resulting from your founding principles: like teaching religious beliefs in biology classes at school. This is something that rational thinking Europeans cant't understand. (Even if it only happens in one State of the US, the rest of the world don't see the difference between Oklahoma or California, New England or Texas, its the US.) Most people in Germany see the difference between belief and science. We have classes for teaching religion or ethic at school alongside classes for natural sciences like biology, chemistry or physics.

We are in general open-minded and tolerant. Actions like threatening the life of someone in public, as Sarah Palin did against Julian Assan concerning wikileaks would be unthinkable in Europe, not because we don't have the right to speak freely, we do have the right to speak freely - as long as we don't threaten or discriminate other people. Remember, these are the things people see in the media. these things shape the opinion of the people worldwide.

Sexuality is another issue. Most Europeans think of Americans as being prude. This is because of the censorship of media - in pictures, movies and tv. In Europe it's not unusual to see a naked women - yes a naked womans breasts - in a commercial for shower gel for example. We even have openly gay or bi-sexual politicians.

And then there is the prohibition of alcohol. In Germany it's legal for teenager to drink beer and wine at the age of 16, harder alcoholic drinks (whiskey and vodka for example) at the age of 18. On the other hand you need to be 18 to get a drivers licence in most of Europe. We think it's more important to learn to be responsible with alcohol before you are allowed to drive a car.

The same could be said about firearms, which are illegal without a permit. Europeans think it's crazy allowing every citizen to own a weapon (which is not the case, I know). At least we have very little firearms related crimes and virtually no drive-by-shootings at all - and less costs for medical treatment related to "firearms" incidents by the way.

Let's be clear: We do not think everyone in the US is actually crazy. I think there are a lot of things we have in common, and some things we just don't understand. For us, the natural thing to to if you're sick is visit a doctor or hospital, because the we don't have to pay for it - it's been taking care of. If we get ill, we don't have to worry to loose our job. In my opinion this leads to people being healthier in general and thus less sick at work. Everybody wins.

MJ

Last edited by misterjupiter on 04 Feb 2011, 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mental illness is actually a big reason for our homeless problem. They can't get or hold a job, can't afford medical insurance and eventually lose their ID and what not and it's over for them...homeless and stranded.

It's easy to say that homelessness is just laziness or drugs but there's normally more of an underlying factor to it...mental illness.



That one is a bit of a weird trade-off. Americans are much more relaxed about violence but crazy uptight about sex. I'd rather the sex, myself...but I'm also the outsider on most things here. There was a show here called Bones that showed a headshot (with the head completely exploding) on broadcast TV here and the people around covered in spects of skull and blood. I always thought that stuff was weird...that the violence is okay but the sex is a bad thing. People defecate themselves over Janet Jackson's nipple but have no problem with a head exploding.



There's a big prohibition culture here. It's a part of the same psychosis with the loving violence but hating sex thing. I have no clue what it's about other than a bunch of really crappy human beings ruining it for everyone.

It must be completely unimaginable for you to think that all forms of alcohol were banned here at one point...being German, I'd guess you'd think that as sacrilege considering the great history and culture and pride around beer there. However, here the prohibitionists are the loudest voices...reason isn't normally a motivating factor in much of anything here. What are the drink driving laws over there?



You also most likely get more holidays and sick days than Americans do.

I am curious about your crime rates, of course the firearms crime rate would go down if there where no guns available. But what about the rest of your crime? Where would the statistics for the rest of your crime be found.

And I'm surprised all the conservatives on this site don't realize this. I've also found that people of the conservative mindset are less tolerant concerning mental illness, more likely to think anyone can will themselves out of it or think that it's a character defect. If they had their way they'd probably want to send everyone who can't work to the gas chambers.

Public acceptance for metal disorders has improved a lot in the last years here in Germany. In fact it is hard to believe that some might just dismiss a metal disorder as being lazy or else, regardless of the medical research on such topics.



The statistics are available for download as pdf documents (in German) in but this forum won't allow me to post the link, because I have not enough posts yet:)

Quick summery:
6.054.330 recorded crimes in 2009. 55,6 percent solved.
Roughly 300.000 crimes under the influence of alcohol.
39 percent of all crimes were robberies.



I must admit, i love the show "Bones". The leading character "Bones" is always presenting some controversial views and ideas.

You're right. We Europeans have really a lot of problems with your relaxed view on violance. This means that a lot of US productions (not only movies or television series, but also computer games) must be edited for the European market to be sold.



At 0.3 per mill blood alcohol or above a driver has to face consequences. It depends if the driver is involved in an accident or not. Your drivers licence may be suspended for 6 months to 5 years or even for life. And you have to pay a fee in most cases.



I don't know that. I was unemployed and in treatment for more than 4 years. Now I'm studying economic-computer-science (because of my mental disorder i'm unable to work as a salesman anymore) as part of rehab it's paid for by our general-health-care. I'll make my exam in late summer this year and will be finally able to work again.

MJ

Last edited by misterjupiter on 04 Feb 2011, 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.