Ethics av veganism

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Where do you think animals get the nutrients found in meat? By magically conjuring them from nothing?

I've been coasting along just fine on a vegetarian diet for almost 2 years now. I eat plenty of leafy greens, snack on nuts, and stay away from excessively starchy foods and from fast food. I haven't died yet.

Ethical decision making in the area of what we humans do to animals should not be predicated on what animals do to one another. Non-human animals are not human; they engage in all sorts of hunting, mating, defense etc. practices that cause other animals serious pain and suffering. That doesn't mean that it's okay to torture a puppy, does it?
Our moral-ethical responsibilities do not end at the line between human and non-human.

Ideally, I'd like my diet to reflect the ability of a given animal to feel pain and suffering, so as to minimize the suffering I cause. The ethicist Peter Singer (who, it should be said, has some issues when it comes to autists and people with disabilities) has developed a pretty good framework to that effect. I know I'm a long way off from doing that, and that I can only minimize, not stop, the suffering I cause, but it's a worthy goal. I'd also like to eat more local and organic food, but I'm not exactly drowning in money...

There are plenty of vegans out there who are a tad evangelical, to be sure, but the popular image of veganism is "here lies crazy town." The reality of it is more along the lines of "here lie a number of complex philosophical issues regarding ethics, rights, personhood and the line between human and non-human that most people are scared of, confused by, and spend most of their lives avoiding."

the most ethical thing to do is not eat at all

Not entirely convenience.
I thought that was some sort of acronym, actually. Hencce my confusion.
Food is not a drug; I doubt withdrawal really applies.

They get them from plants. But true herbivores have different digestive systems than we do, and they are capable of processing plant matter more completely and more effectively than we are.

I'm basing my comments on personal experience, too. I guess there are different methods in different areas.

Men certainly seem to have a greater desire for meat than women, though it's possible that it's cultural (meat is seen as 'manly' in the U.S.).
I've seen no data one way or the other about actual protein, B12, Fe, etc. requirements for men vs. women and for teens vs. adults.
IIrc, among the Inuit the liver (except, of course, in predators like polar bears) was saved for women, especially those who had recently given birth and/or were nursing.

I don't take multivitamins more than a couple of times a month, and every once in a while I'll find myself walking by the meat counter and thinking, 'mmmm.... liver.' I've never, to my knowledge, eaten liver in my life. Taking a vitamin pill usually ends the craving.

Have you ever tried just eating less meat? LIke, say, finding an excellent salad bar somewhere and building up a nice green salad with lots of good toppings for lunch, instead of a hamburger (or whatever you usually eat for lunch)?

I said male largely because teenage boys tend to have a much more rapid rate of growth.

I don't believe I've ever had liver either, and it doesn't seem at all appetizing.

Occasionally. I'm not a salad fan, but I can go without beef (eggs, fish and poultry would usually go in its place). Cutting back on meat as a whole leads to essentially the same results, since eating less meat would typically mean going a day or more without, at which point I already don't feel so good.

I mean, I could eat less meat, since there are days when I have it more than once, but I wouldn't expect significant health gains from large cutbacks in my meat intake, and I don't like the result when my meat intake drops below a certain level. My cholesterol levels are abnormally low in spite of a diet that contains way more saturated fat and cholesterol than is usually considered healthy. I happen to like cheeseburgers, and I'm going to enjoy them while I still can.

Damn you gluten tolerant people!

I also love a good piece of bread. Not that over-processed bleached-white crap, but a nice hearty loaf of dark wheat bread, fresh out of the oven.

Even if that was true, we have known to cook for long enough to evolve into omnivores.

The the animals closer to us genetically are also omnivore.

Note that Meat != cow meat. Insects, brains, fish, humans probably ate tons and tons of animal stuff before learning to cook...

Why not have a go with perpetually dry and crumbling rice bread?

My housemate makes some pretty good gluten-free cornbread, and her gluten-free brownies rock the world. I can get her recipes for you if you PM me.

I spoke with a friend who knows a bit more than we, and she thinks that we could have been ovo-lacto vegetarians for quite a while, then meat may have come shortly after that.

I play on getting buckwheat and making buckwheat wraps which i can stuff salad and seeds into

I have not actually received any testing for a gluten sensitivity, but I think there is a fair chance I do have one since I am sensitive to everything from sugar, to caffine, to alcohol, to medications etc.

Planning on going to a chinese medicines clinic when I have £35 spare and getting a hair alergy test done. It can test for a huge variety of things and it wont be a yes no or maybe answer like doctors seem to give in this country, it will actually be stats on a bit of paper which you can use to make a more detailed analysis of.

Seriously??? Food most certainly can be a drug- people can form chemical addictions to certain foods, leading them to crave them constantly and feel weak after only a few days without them.

This isn't directed to you, necessarily, but I'm beginning to realize many many people are quite ignorant when it comes to basic principles of nutrition. It helps to explain the health epidemics we're currently facing.